Pioneer VSX1016TX upgrade to Elite VSX94TX

Tomasito

Hello,

I presently have a Pioneer VSX1016TXV. At first I was satisfied and happy with it. But lately, the fidelity bug has bitten me. My brains tells me to be mindful with my spending.
In view of this, I found a good deal online on the Pioneer Elite VSX94TXH. The pioneer website states it's the flagship of the 2007 Elite series.

I think, I will certainly hear an audible power difference, since the VSX1016 has 110W/channel, while the VSX94 has 140W/channel.

My question to you all is:
Will I hear an improvement in terms of sound quality if I upgrade to the VSX94TXH?

I have an all polk speaker system connected to my present VSX1016TXV - Lsi9, RTiA3, FXi3, RM202, and 2 subs = PSW110.

Your comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Roberto

ryanjoachim

With those power-hungry speakers, I think you will hear a good amount of difference.
But I don't know much, so take it for what it's worth!

disneyjoe7

Unless there's a feature which you need right now, your best money would be to add an amp to power those Lsi9 over buying the 94THX which BTW I feel is a very nice receiver. But an amp would be the best $ upgrade now since I don't believe the 94 would power those Lsi9 correctly.

Tomasito

I was considering getting an amp to power the Lsi9, based on what I am hearing I really need to get one. I was looking into the Rotel 1080.
Any comments if this will be a good match?

disneyjoe7

I feel others could answer that question better, but I say that was fine. Just my $.02

mantis

Pioneer Elite and regular Pioneer receivers are not built to run 4ohm load speakers. It taxes the amp and limits the dynamic range. Upgrading to the Pioneer ELite 94 isn't a bad idea but adding an amp 2 is also what I would do.
If you replace the Lsi9's with matching rti series speakers , this will yield better results overall. Mixing rti and lsi isn't the best choice.
Another good idea is replacing all rti speakers with Lsi speakers, getting a 5 channel power amp like the Rotel rmb 1095 and using the Pioneer Elite vsx94txh as a preamp would make for a very nice system. Elite receivers make pretty damn good preamps if a receiver is whats going to be used instead of a deadicted pre. Right now it's very limited to what would make a good pre for todays formats. The elite would be a good choice right now.

Dan

John K.

Roberto, you're hoping to "certainly hear an audible power difference", but this indicates that maybe you're not aware of how power works and you're not taking into account the fact that amplifier power increases logarithmically not linearly. What this means is that when power is doubled loudness doesn't double, but increases only 3dB, and this increase is exactly the same when the increase is from 1 to 2 watts, 10 to 20 watts, 100 to 200 watts, 1000 to 2000 watts, etc. The difference between 140 and 110 watts is only about 1db in maximum loudness; for example, if 110watts were used for a brief 105dB peak(about 1 watt is used for a comfortably loud 85dB average listening level) in a certain situation, 140 watts would only allow that peak to be played at 106dB, and the difference would hardly be noticed, especially at such an extremely loud level.

If your 1016(which is a quite powerful receiver)actually doesn't have enough maximum power for your use(unlikely), you'd have to increase the capacity a lot more, say to 500 watts, to make a significant difference in maximum loudness capability. Don't let that bug which bit you cause you to suffer from one of the audio mythologies relating to power ratings.

Tomasito

Thank you for explaning amplifier power. How about the in terms of sound quality, the pioneeer technical support said that the difference in sound quality between the VSX1016 and the VSX94 will be like night and day. Can anybody comment on this?

mantis

John K. wrote: »

Roberto, you're hoping to "certainly hear an audible power difference", but this indicates that maybe you're not aware of how power works and you're not taking into account the fact that amplifier power increases logarithmically not linearly. What this means is that when power is doubled loudness doesn't double, but increases only 3dB, and this increase is exactly the same when the increase is from 1 to 2 watts, 10 to 20 watts, 100 to 200 watts, 1000 to 2000 watts, etc. The difference between 140 and 110 watts is only about 1db in maximum loudness; for example, if 110watts were used for a brief 105dB peak(about 1 watt is used for a comfortably loud 85dB average listening level) in a certain situation, 140 watts would only allow that peak to be played at 106dB, and the difference would hardly be noticed, especially at such an extremely loud level.

If your 1016(which is a quite powerful receiver)actually doesn't have enough maximum power for your use(unlikely), you'd have to increase the capacity a lot more, say to 500 watts, to make a significant difference in maximum loudness capability. Don't let that bug which bit you cause you to suffer from one of the audio mythologies relating to power ratings.

What you say is sorta true from a text book stand point. But what
you fail to mention here is quality watts and preamp section sound. Higher current and higher watt amps , watts isn't the whole story. Dynamic range or reserve power is. There are alot of amps out there that are not as Dynamic as others with the same Watt ratings. Reserve power is what makes the difference not how many million watts it's rated at. If looking at a receiver with 110 watts then going to the 140 watt receiver doesn't tell the whole story. Comparing these 2 you would think the Elite has alot more more then it does in comparsion. It's ability to play soft and loud is what you will notice.

mantis

Tomasito wrote: »

Thank you for explaning amplifier power. How about the in terms of sound quality, the pioneeer technical support said that the difference in sound quality between the VSX1016 and the VSX94 will be like night and day. Can anybody comment on this?

Pioneer Elite vs Pioneer receivers sound very different. Elite sounds refined and more musical. They also are more dynamic. Clairity is where biggest difference. It's the built quality of materials used on both lines that seperate the 2. But like I said before there is another issue you have and thats mixing Rti and Lsi speakers. I don't know why you choose to do this but it's going to make a difference when powering them. They also respond differently to dynamic power. They sound different. having a different center channel and main speakers is not ideal. At least if you like having Lsi 9's as your mains(most people do including myself, they are fantastic speakers) you should at very least get a LsiC center channel. The rears should also be swapped out for Lsi Fx or Lsi 7's but it's not as cridical as the front 3. it is but it's more exceptable not to mention the Pioneer Elites Mcacc will help balance out the tonal differences between the 2 different speaker lines.

So go ahead and get your Elite 94 receiver but make sure you add a power amp as well. If a power amp is not in the cards then plan on replacing the Lsi9's with Rti speakers. This will yield huge results. I think this is the way to go.

Dan

Tomasito

Hello dan,
This what the pioneer tech support has told me. He said the build quality and the higher components and processors assembled into the elite are different from the non-elite pioneer. He said since VSX1016 is at the top end of the pioneer entry level, comparing it with the entry level elite which is the VSX90TX - I will only hear maybe a 5% difference ( or hardly none at all depending how critical my ear is) in sound quality. But if was to get a VSX84TX, he said the difference will be like night and day.

There is no turning back now, I already ordered the VSX94TXH and it will arrive on wednesday. By this time I will be able to hear myself if the sound difference is really night and day.

I have a RtiA5 that is hooked up to my tube system. I will swap it with the LSi making the speakers connected to the VSX94 all Rti's.

I will savor the VSX94 sound for a couple of months, which in time I would want more, then I will get an amp.

mantis

Tomasito wrote: »

Hello dan,
This what the pioneer tech support has told me. He said the build quality and the higher components and processors assembled into the elite are different from the non-elite pioneer. He said since VSX1016 is at the top end of the pioneer entry level, comparing it with the entry level elite which is the VSX90TX - I will only hear maybe a 5% difference ( or hardly none at all depending how critical my ear is) in sound quality. But if was to get a VSX84TX, he said the difference will be like night and day.

There is no turning back now, I already ordered the VSX94TXH and it will arrive on wednesday. By this time I will be able to hear myself if the sound difference is really night and day.

I have a RtiA5 that is hooked up to my tube system. I will swap it with the LSi making the speakers connected to the VSX94 all Rti's.

I will savor the VSX94 sound for a couple of months, which in time I would want more, then I will get an amp.

With Rti speakers you will not need a amp. The 94 has plenty of power to drive them to reference levels with lots of dynamic range. If you do switch to all Lsi, then an amp will be required. Good luck with the 94, it's a sweet receiver.