Senate shields phone companies from lawsuits re: illegal surveillance of US citizens

wizzy

c|net:

"In a setback for privacy and civil liberties groups, the U.S. Senate on Tuesday voted to protect telephone and Internet companies from lawsuits alleging illegal cooperation with government spy agencies."

Basically, about 66.6% of the senate voted to retroactively legalize the illegal warrantless spying on everyone in the US conducted by most all of the major phone companies!

treitz3

Good.

petrym

The NSA has been doing that in collusion with the telephone companies for decades, it's nothing new.

m00npie

Awesome!!!

If you have an issue with it, perhaps you’re doing something you shouldn't be.

edbert

I agree moonpie! Do I really care if the government hears me arguing with my wife or talking to my best friend in another state? If they really want to have fun, but it isn't by any means a matter of national security. It's not like at the end of the year they publish a DVD full of the best phone conversations they have listened in on(although that could be very entertaining.)

wizzy

m00npie wrote: »

If you have an issue with it, perhaps you’re doing something you shouldn't be.

That sounds just like the argument used by Hitler's SS, East Germany's Stasi, the KGB, et al. to justify spying on the citizens of their countries.

disneyjoe7

Sounds Great.

bobman1235

And anyone with half a brain would just develop code words and use pre-paid cell phones which are immediately thrown away. This accomplishes nothing other than making idiots feel "safer".

I don't particularly care if someone is listening to my conversations in theory, but it's worthless in practice, and taken with everything else the gubmint likes to do brings us one step closer to a 1984 world where not only are we under constant surveillance but eventually controlled.

nms

I was about to say something but then I remembered we aren't supposed to talk about politics, so instead I'll just say I don't like warrantless phone tapping. What happened to probable cause?

jflail2

Honestly, I don't do anything "wrong", especially on the phone (well except for that Asian transvesite 1-900 line I call twice a week), but I do think there comes a point when privacy should be respected. I pay my taxes, pay my bills, am from a very military family, and love America. Why shouldn't I expect a little privacy in my phone calls, regardless of how inane they are?

The more civil liberties we give up to protect us, the more the terrorists have been able to influence our daily lives. Which sounds like a net loss to me. I'd rather live free and die early, than live to a ripe old age in a hermetically sealed, "safe" version of what America used to be.

Disclaimer: I am not a bleeding heart liberal, and LOVE to see our military kick some ****. My grandfather served, my dad served, and I spent the 1st 15 years of my life growing up on AFB's, so I'm definitely not your prototypical idiotic liberal. I just think we are beginning to toe the line between living safe and truly living free.

bikezappa

Wizzy

People on this forum would be more concerned with the lose of our rights if it were about guns or maybe if Hillary gets elected.

Understand if elected she will now be able to use the phone companies to listen to everyone.

What comes around ...........

dorokusai

Woohoo!

shadowofnight

This is 2008...your employer is watching your EVERY move....you are being monitored in public by thousands of government installed cameras ( On the 101 freeway here I counted over 20 cameras just on my short commute to san jose ) ....patriot act basically gave them carte blanche...new RFID's in your clothes tracking your every move...etc

Basically you better live your public/employment( YES this means internet in your bedroom as well...thats public too ) life like eyes are on you 24/7...do that and you will be fine...forget about that and do illegal actions...you pay the price...simple really.

BAD ASP

Maybe there is a little more depth to the story, I offer for your consideration:
There aren't enough people on any agencies payrolls to scrutinize this volume of phone calls. I think they probably react to the red flags of phone calls from U.S. phones to phones linked with some forms of illegal or dangerous activities and or foreigners and governments on terrorist lists.
Phones in use by known felons who are engaged in certain very high profile dealings such as drugs, illegal arms, child pornography to name a few of the more distasteful.

If there is any legitimacy to my speculation then those that are being watched are to protect the rest of us then I am in support.
If the government wants to start listening to all of the phone calls made by all of we Amrericans then that might be what Huxley was talking about but I can't believe that the huge undertaking in the way of manpower and equipment would go on without notice. I think it might be overly paranoid to think that our government has the time and finances to pull this off with all of the scrutiny being applied to capital expenditures.
If the surveillance is being done in more depth on the local level we all would be hearing about busts all over our country... that's not happening either.
FWIW:just my 2c

bikezappa

I don't know why I responded to this thread because it's just mental masterbation.

Nothing we do or say here or any place else will make any differnce.

The government has been bought and sold to the large corporations many years ago.

So I will stop my flag waving and go listen to some music which is still legal for now.

bobman1235

It's not the act of listening to telephone conversations, which is worthless, it's what it represents - entering into someone's private life without permission either from a judge or from the person.

This was important enough to the founders of this country that it was the FOURTH amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

treitz3

It's not like the local police agencies are tapping into your phone. Wizzy's post, if you truly research it only allows the US "spy agencies" to monitor and record phone conversations of "individuals of interest" and "dialog of interest" that would have something to do with National Security.

This information never goes public and is not transferred to any other agency, unless they have a direct bearing on National Security. It's not like they are gonna bust you because you are bangin' your neighbors wife or you are selling a dime of weed or some ****.

I consider this a win for National Security and common sense. I also consider it a loss to the terrorists and other entities that want nothing more to do with us than to take our lives.

jflail2

treitz3 wrote: »

I consider this a win for National Security and common sense. I also consider it a loss to the terrorists and other entities that want nothing more to do with us than to take our lives.

I'll say it again:

The more civil liberties we give up to protect us, the more the terrorists have been able to influence our daily lives. Which sounds like a net loss to me. I'd rather live free and die early, than live to a ripe old age in a hermetically sealed, "safe" version of what America used to be.

bobman1235

Meanwhile this same government is systematically taking away all of your rights with regards to firearms, and you're much more likely to need one of thsoe to save your **** than to be killed in a terrorist attack.

cfrizz

Well I'm happy to know that you & I will probably live a whole lot longer because these taps managed to take down a terrorist before he/she had a chance to strike!

I would much prefer this kind of a bloodless bust that helps to keep all of us safer, rather than to get a message that one of our active service members here (say Troy) got killed over there or any of the other brave people who are dying over there now!

So let them listen away, I'm not doing or talking about anything that I have to worry about anyone kicking down my door for!

jflail2 wrote: »

I'll say it again:

The more civil liberties we give up to protect us, the more the terrorists have been able to influence our daily lives. Which sounds like a net loss to me. I'd rather live free and die early, than live to a ripe old age in a hermetically sealed, "safe" version of what America used to be.

treitz3

jflail2 wrote: »

I'll say it again:

The more civil liberties we give up to protect us, the more the terrorists have been able to influence our daily lives. Which sounds like a net loss to me. I'd rather live free and die early, than live to a ripe old age in a hermetically sealed, "safe" version of what America used to be.

"I have nothing to hide, tap away if I am a suspected terrorist. I'll waive a partial right to my privacy in the interest of possibly saving American lives." > quote by treitz3 circa 2008.

I agree that giving up freedoms is a net loss, but personally for me it's worth it to lose the freedom of getting tapped I]which can happen illegally without my or your knowledge anyway[/I to possibly intercept a coded, uncoded message or meeting place that in the end, might possibly save your life.

Oh well, that's my stance, my belief and my opinion. I'm out. I'd rather discuss things that affect the end result as to hits my ears. I.E. music. This crap gets old quick quick because you can never please everybody. Please disregard all posts by me, with the exception of the first one which was in response to Wizzy's post in which I said quite simply, "Good."

Y'all have fun until the thread gets closed.

shack

jflail2 wrote:

I'll say it again:

The more civil liberties we give up to protect us, the more the terrorists have been able to influence our daily lives. Which sounds like a net loss to me. I'd rather live free and die early, than live to a ripe old age in a hermetically sealed, "safe" version of what America used to be.

You can "kick the bucket" whenever you like. I'll take ripe old age in what ever form presents itself.

shadowofnight

Now you know why the 50's are so glamorized...technology can be great....can also be a pain in the ****.

jflail2

shack wrote: »

You can "kick the bucket" whenever you like. I'll take ripe old age in what ever form presents itself.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Some dude named Ben Franklin said something along those lines a few years back. Sounded like a mildly intelligent guy...

shadowofnight

jflail2 wrote: »

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Some dude named Ben Franklin said something along those lines a few years back. Sounded like a mildly intelligent guy...

Sounded like the old **** knew a thing or two




" The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations. The eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set. "



" Surreptitious activation of built-in microphones by the FBI has been done before. A 2003 lawsuit revealed that the FBI was able to surreptitiously turn on the built-in microphones in automotive systems like General Motors' OnStar to snoop on passengers' conversations. "

Polk user

bikezappa wrote: »

Wizzy

People on this forum would be more concerned with the lose of our rights if it were about guns or maybe if Hillary gets elected.

Understand if elected she will now be able to use the phone companies to listen to everyone.

What comes around ...........

Everyone??????? There is only one phone she will be listening to and the conversation will go something like this......


" Don't worry babe, Hillary is meeting with the Prime Minister of some 3rd world country so we got all morning. I'll bring the cigars"

Polk user

bikezappa wrote: »

I don't know why I responded to this thread because it's just mental masterbation.

Nothing we do or say here or any place else will make any differnce.

The government has been bought and sold to the large corporations many years ago.

So I will stop my flag waving and go listen to some music which is still legal for now.

That depends on how you downloaded it!!!!!!

Polk user

bobman1235 wrote: »

It's not the act of listening to telephone conversations, which is worthless, it's what it represents - entering into someone's private life without permission either from a judge or from the person.

This was important enough to the founders of this country that it was the FOURTH amendment.

The founders also wrote the FIRST amendment:

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.


But that didn't stop McCain-Feingold from passing FORBIDDING free speech.

mrbigbluelight

cfrizz wrote: »

I would much prefer this kind of a bloodless bust that helps to keep all of us safer, rather than to get a message that one of our active service members here (say Troy) got killed over there or any of the other brave people who are dying over there now!

I would disagree, Cfrizz, in this sense:

If our American servicemen and women are over there to protect our freedoms over here, than haven't we cheated them out of the fruits of their labor by meekly surrendering those rights to the "powers that be" that "know what's good for us" ?

The government used to monitor ALL international calls.
The government now monitors ALL calls. Period. No exceptions.

Welcome to 1984.

Face

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Welcome to 1984

Still my favorite book of all time. I wish they would have come out with a better movie adaptation.

bobman1235

I'm really surprised no one has re-made that movie since the 80's.