I want a VPI

del44

I have been checking out the VPI turntables. There are a couple on a'gon now that are under the 1 K mark. They are the mk style. I'm trying to keep my budget around that price. If anyone that's familiar with the MK would chime in that would be great. Of the 3 or 4 that are in that price range (on the gon)which would you recommend. I'm not very knowledgeable on tonearms or cartridges, so I want some expert opinions. Thanks.

I-SIG

So the truth comes out, Del! Good deal.

Wes

hearingimpared

This is the table for you. It is $600 more than your budget but you won't need to do any upgrading on this table for a long time to come.

Fireman32

Good deal. I'm sure Jow will chime in whth all the info that you need. I love my VPI mark III. I hardly ever listen to cd's anymore.

del44

hearingimpared wrote: »

This is the table for you. It is $600 more than your budget but you won't need to do any upgrading on this table for a long time to come.

I was checking that out in the FM. Can't quite swing it. What's the diff between a AQ pt5, AQ pt6 or sumiko premiere ft3 tonearm. And, is a dynavector karat 17D a good cartridge? If my Sony wasn't such a pos, I'd probably just use it. Too many damn decisions.

hearingimpared

del44 wrote: »

Can't quite swing it. .

THis is one of those TTs you do what you can to swing it.

del44 wrote: »

What's the diff between a AQ pt5, AQ pt6 or sumiko premiere ft3 tonearm. .

All three are good tonearms but don't compare to the Rega 300.

del44

Well Wes, I figured I might as well make use of the 200 or so albums I have.
Besides, There's alot more tweaking and modifiying with a tt. And we all like to tweak stuff.:)

billbillw

If not already sold, this is the one I would get from Agon right now:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207164662

The SAMA(stand alone motor) is a very desireable option that cost $400 by itself and hardly every shows up used.

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

All three are good tonearms but don't compare to the Rega 300.

Have to disagree there. The rega 300 is nothing special (in stock form) and probably not any better than AQ PT series, definitely not as good as the Sumiko FT-3/4. Stock Rega doesn't even have VTA adjustment. Sumiko has that, plus fluid damping, plus litz wire, plus adjustable azimuth.

The ONLY thing that the Rega has going for it is an extensive bin of upgrade parts available from many sources. By the time you finish upgrading one, you are already up to the cost of a good used SME.

BaggedLancer

I need a VPI.

TroyD

I'd disagree.

There are probably 3x as many Rega arms in circulation than any other arm. Plus, the RB300 has been a Class A stereophile arm for years (for an inexpensive arm to get that sort of praise from that crew means something)

BDT

Fireman32

Del you want to do what you can and buy Troys VPI. Its a fine table. I have heard it first hand and it was that table that got me intrested in vinyl. You cant go wrong with it. and its a hell of a deal

TroyD

Dave could sell dell his and buy mine?

BDT

billbillw

TroyD wrote: »

I'd disagree.

There are probably 3x as many Rega arms in circulation than any other arm. Plus, the RB300 has been a Class A stereophile arm for years (for an inexpensive arm to get that sort of praise from that crew means something)

BDT

Troy,
There is absolutely no way that the RB300 is a current Class A recommended component. Maybe a lower class, but not A.

I'll agree that there are a ton of Regas in circulation, but that's mainly due to their low price point and the fact that they are mounted stock on so many affordable tables like the Rega P3. I don't have a problem with Regas at all, they are a great, affordable arm with lots of options to upgrade.

But, none of that changes the fact that they don't have VTA adjustment, nor fluid damping in stock form.

Look, the original poster (del) asked about what was available on Agon right now. I don't believe any of the HW-19s on AGon right now have the Rega anyway, so it really doesn't matter unless he splurges for yours.

Del, To answer your original question regarding the difference between the AQ PT5/6, and Sumiko FT-3, etc. The AQ and Sumiko are very similar, but the Sumikos are a little better arm. With the AQ, usually the higher number means it has a better cable or its a newer model year. I wouldn't worry about any subtle differences between those tonearm. They will all perform very nicely with a wide range of cartridges. I would get the table that has the best features for the money, which I feel is the one with the SAMA. That is the single biggest upgrade you can do to a VPI HW-19 table and yields the greatest improvement.

Of course, its all moot if the guy has already sold it or has a pending.

Troy's table is a great deal too, but that's a pretty big step up in money too.

jm1

I found an old 1999 Stereophile Recommended Components page stating the RB-300 was in the Class B category for ‘value for the money’.

Del44,

If you are comfortable setting up a TT or have someone who can set up a TT for you, I would suggest getting the next Scout that appears on Agon in the $1200 - 1300 range. There is a very good reason this TT was/is in the Class B category based on performance. The Dynavector 10x5 is also a great cart to start with.

This will take you above budget, but may be a better long term solution.

Do you have a phono preamp in your system? I could not tell by your system page.


PS.

Start collecting records before the masses rediscover they sound better than digital media and drive the used prices up.

TroyD

The RB300 is still a current Class B component. My mistake. I was looking for the other arms but didn't find them. The blurb says "The Rega offers very good detail, depth , midrange neutrality and precision of imaging, almost creeping into Class A"

If VTA is an issue, you can retrofit with an aftermarket on the fly VTA adjustment for, I think ~150 dollars. VTA isn't a big thing for me though.

I agree, the SAMA made the largest improvement in sound on my table, followed closely by the TNT platter. If you are buying a HW-19, the SAMA is a must have though.

EDIT: Also, when you purchase a table, any table, check the cartridge. If it's a low output MC, make sure your pre can accomodate it.




BDT

madmax

The Troy setup looks pretty good to me but I won't promote it only because I have not heard it. I will give a small amount of advice though: Don't worry about a few hundred dollars difference on a TT.
madmax

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

If not already sold, this is the one I would get from Agon right now:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1207164662

The SAMA(stand alone motor) is a very desireable option that cost $400 by itself and hardly every shows up used.

This is no where nears the calibur of Troy's TT. First off it has the original MKII one inch thick, delrin encased lead platter. Don't get me wrong this is a great "stock" platter. However the version of platter Troy has on his table is at least four versions up and produces much better and controlled bass and midrange frequencies.

Secondly, the modded RB 300, which is I believe the tonearm Troy has on there is by far better than any of the AQ PT series tonearm.

Thirdly it has the first generation SAMA which I can tell you has no torque and needs a little nudge to get going not to mention that you need to connect it to the turntable's switch to have a switch. The newer generation SAMAs (which I believe Troy's has) is a completely independent motor from the TT and has it's own switch to start/stop it. This also does a great job of isolating the table from the motor.

hearingimpared

TroyD wrote: »

The RB300 is still a current Class B component. My mistake. I was looking for the other arms but didn't find them. The blurb says "The Rega offers very good detail, depth , midrange neutrality and precision of imaging, almost creeping into Class A"

If VTA is an issue, you can retrofit with an aftermarket on the fly VTA adjustment for, I think ~150 dollars. VTA isn't a big thing for me though.

I agree, the SAMA made the largest improvement in sound on my table, followed closely by the TNT platter. If you are buying a HW-19, the SAMA is a must have though.

EDIT: Also, when you purchase a table, any table, check the cartridge. If it's a low output MC, make sure your pre can accomodate it.




BDT

Just for a little kicker here, my tonearm which is considered one of the all time greats doesn't have azimuth control nor does it have VTA adjustiment while the record is playing. First off I don't believe in fine VTA adjustments, I think SRA is much more effective and accurate. As much as I would love to be able to adjust the azimuth of my cartridge, SME's philosophy is that if the tonearm is precise then the cartridge is going to be precise and the the whole business is moot. Besides if for some reason my azimuth is off I can slip various thicknesses of shims under the tonearm base to raise or lower one side or the other of the stylus.

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

This is no where nears the calibur of Troy's TT. First off it has the original MKII one inch thick, delrin encased lead platter. Don't get me wrong this is a great "stock" platter. However the version of platter Troy has on his table is at least four versions up and produces much better and controlled bass and midrange frequencies.

Secondly, the modded RB 300, which is I believe the tonearm Troy has on there is by far better than any of the AQ PT series tonearm.

Thirdly it has the first generation SAMA which I can tell you has no torque and needs a little nudge to get going not to mention that you need to connect it to the turntable's switch to have a switch. The newer generation SAMAs (which I believe Troy's has) is a completely independent motor from the TT and has it's own switch to start/stop it. This also does a great job of isolating the table from the motor.

Never said it was the same caliber as Troy's, but remember his budget. People have budgets for a reason, and perhaps, $1000 was already a stretch for him. Remember, he only has about 200 albums.

That VPI I recommended would be a VERY good table for his purpose and would probably more than meet his needs. Not reference quality, but VERY good. I have the same table, without the SAMA and I feel it does just about everything right. The only change I would make would be the sama and perhaps better feet. (I have the Sumiko, not the AQ)

BTW, I'm pretty sure that table I recommended does have the latest SAMA, not 1st gen. The 1st gens had a round silver casing, right?

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

Just for a little kicker here, my tonearm which is considered one of the all time greats doesn't have azimuth control nor does it have VTA adjustiment while the record is playing. First off I don't believe in fine VTA adjustments, I think SRA is much more effective and accurate. As much as I would love to be able to adjust the azimuth of my cartridge, SME's philosophy is that if the tonearm is precise then the cartridge is going to be precise and the the whole business is moot. Besides if for some reason my azimuth is off I can slip various thicknesses of shims under the tonearm base to raise or lower one side or the other of the stylus.

How the hell do you adjust SRA without a VTA adjustment? Its the same thing just looked at differently.

I thought you were the king of fine VTA adjustment? Weren't you the one telling me that you made an adjustment for every record depending on the thickness?

hearingimpared

Indeed it was Bill. I have found my philosophy to be all wrong on this and have admitted it here several times. The amount in degrees needed to make a small change in the VTA by moving the tonearm up or down on the pillar is way to great. I've found that the SRA i. e. a small change in the VTF is much more productive than trying to make the large sweeping change necessary to adjust the VTA.

TroyD

For the record, I don't really care (no disrespect intended) if anyone buys my table, to be honest. In it's stock mode, I see the Scoutmaster being a somewhat lateral move, initially but with a much greater upgrade path. I'll get to it sooner or later. I'm actually considering just upgrading my cartridge and pressing on as-is.

That said though, the difference between a stock MkIII and a full on MkIV....apples and oranges. Not even in the same ball park. I've gone that route....and it's cheaper to do it upfront. Not to mention, at this point, upgrading and HW-19 becomes dicey as parts availability becomes and issue.

BDT

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

Indeed it was Bill. I have found my philosophy to be all wrong on this and have admitted it here several times. The amount in degrees needed to make a small change in the VTA by moving the tonearm up or down on the pillar is way to great. I've found that the SRA i. e. a small change in the VTF is much more productive than trying to make the large sweeping change necessary to adjust the VTA.

This is obviously getting off topic, but you're really just changing your terminology. Yes, everybody has always said "adjust VTA", but the real goal has always been to get the proper SRA to match the original vinyl cutting head.

You can't adjust VTA without the SRA being affected, and vice versa.

All that aside, a tonearm with fine VTA adjustment is ultimately easier to setup and easier to make small changes when necessary; hence, more desirable in my book.

madmax

I Looked up SRA because I'm unfamiliar with it. I found "Sexual Recovery Anonymous" and "Satanic Ritual Abuse". I certainly hope you guys are talking about something else...
madmax

billbillw

stylus rake angle

http://www.theanalogdept.com/effective_length.htm

See bottom of page for diagram and discussion

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

This is obviously getting off topic, but you're really just changing your terminology. Yes, everybody has always said "adjust VTA", but the real goal has always been to get the proper SRA to match the original vinyl cutting head.

You can't adjust VTA without the SRA being affected, and vice versa.

All that aside, a tonearm with fine VTA adjustment is ultimately easier to setup and easier to make small changes when necessary; hence, more desirable in my book.

The problem with that is that to make a small change in the VTA you must move the tonearm up or down on its pillar a great deal. I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it is 4mm of change on the pillar to get 1 degree of VTA change.

SRA on the other hand changes the SRA or VTA a great deal with a small change in the VTF. Some people put up the crosses stating that if the VTF is increased this will cause excess record wear which is not true. Record wear is caused by mistracking and incorrectly set HTA or anti-skating force.

Troy I hear ya brother. Letting a HW 19 of any version is difficult.

del44

[QUOTE=
The SAMA(stand alone motor) is a very desireable option that cost $400 by itself and hardly every shows up used.[/QUOTE]

I thought that the sama was for the scout type of tt. Will the sama fit the MK version?

TroyD

The MK version is actually the HW-19 (there were 4 versions, Jr, MKII, MKIII and MKIV all of increasing cost and sound quality), yes, all versions of the HW-19 can be retrofitted with the SAMA (stand alone motor).

BDT

billbillw

del44 wrote: »

I thought that the sama was for the scout type of tt. Will the sama fit the MK version?

The Scout series and TNT series all have a stand alone type motor, but they are not compatible with the HW19 series.

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

The Scout series and TNT series all have a stand alone type motor, but they are not compatible with the HW19 series.

Well with a little fanagling . . .