Wanted to put something out there. Some food for thought.

mantis

I have been reading around here on the loved/hated debates over wire this and wire that. Ok cool I have for years been apart of it and learned alot.

Today with even more experience then ever and checking my ego at the door, I learned something that I never thought possible. Heavier guage wire for speakers don't help anything unless the run where of a certain length. When resistance increases, thicker wire is required to get the job done. I learned this from a wire engineer who taught me a few things and brushed up my knowledge. He basically told me to look at is a task that needs to get done. You need the proper tool to get this done, if you use more of a tool then whats required , what is the benefits? Is there any? And when all else fails is it all ego driven?

I thought long and hard then started testing this theory. I have found that once you have the proper guage speaker wire to get the job done, it's now a matter of quality and ternimation that will determine if you get the best sound. There are a million ways to talk about that but what I have found that over the years I have wasted alot of time and money on something I have been overkilling for no good reason other then ego. The pretty package, etc.

So the point of my post here is this, use the proper guage to get where you are going, don't worry about how cool it looks, worry about quality. I still am a firm believer of using the highest quality wire you can at the correct guage and length. Keep in mind interference and termination meaning the end points of the wire. Make sure they are clean and tight. Then you will find some extra money in your pockets that you can make bigger impacks on your system then if you would have spent more on the wires. Don't cheap your system on what it needs, by all means do that at least but get the job done.

Dan

cfrizz

Nice post Dan, I hope you are wearing your flack jacket!

The thing is, is that MOST hobbies when you put a bunch of people together are ego driven & people start trying to one-up everyone else.

It's up to each individual to keep a clear head & a clear destination in mind for what they want to accomplish & to ignore all the hyperbole the gets thrown out. Especially if it is going to cost significantly more than you originally anticipated.

I buy the best I can afford at the time. I focus on what I want it to do & if it will get the job done without costing me an arm and a leg.

Yes better wire/IC's make a difference, but I'm not going to spend more than $50 for them, preferably less. I don't care how pretty they look, (especially since they are going to be hidden behind a rack!) what magical properties they supposedly have, whether or not the owner supports this club, that club, or world peace.

So long as they are made well, go on & off with ease & don't degrade the sound and at a price I'm willing to pay I'm happy!

treitz3

mantis wrote: »

Keep in mind interference and termination meaning the end points of the wire.

That and other components within the complete [as a whole] connection. Not just the wire itself.

F1nut

200 wpc, but 50 buck cables........yeah ok.

cfrizz

Well if you want to pay as much for cable as you do for power go right ahead Jesse.

I don't, & never will. So long as sound is coming out of my speakers I know that the wire is doing what it's supposed to do.

It's the ego driven fanatics that try to demand that EVERYTHING should be expensive that way you are assured that everything is on the same level. Well my common sense tells me that attitude is BS & will most likely lead to financial trouble somewhere else down the line.

dephinistr8

I think I was guilty of the ego/naive thing. I went monster cables/monster connectors all the way around. Necessary? Probably not....I'm just not that bright...

cfrizz

Monster, just like Bose is a massive marketing force to be reckoned with Dephinistra8. You can't miss them because they are EVERYWHERE! When you hear, read & see ads everywhere for something, I think that it is just human nature to associate that name with being the best.

It is not until you really start doing research & coming to forums like this that you start to see another side & other points of views.

dephinistr8

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with what I have, although reading a lot of the posts here makes me think I could've gone in a different direction and saved a fair amount of coin while getting the same 'quality'.

Live & learn

Sherardp

dephinistr8 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with what I have, although reading a lot of the posts here makes me think I could've gone in a different direction and saved a fair amount of coin while getting the same 'quality'.

Live & learn

You could have, that part is true indeed. Never to late to try different cables, etc. Check out SignalCable, Bluejeans, and a few others.

dephinistr8

I think it is too late for me though...I ran all my cabling through the metal studs in the wall when I built the home theater room..hehe

tonyb

Build quality,a knowledge of electricity and what affects it,design,should all be considered when your cable hunting.Unfortunately we can't always slice a cable open to peek inside.Hence we always say to try different ones to see if you hear a difference.This is not a cut and dry subject.You can put 2 different sets of cables on one system with no change at all in SQ,but on another,it may make all the difference in the world.Bottom line,experiment alittle.You may surprise yourself.

steveinaz

I think alot of it is audiophiles' desire to fiddle with stuff. I think wires can help you fine tune your system, but any good quality wire, properly terminated, of the proper impedance, and using a proven topolgy will do the trick. I don't think you need to sell the farm on cables--that's just folly; but hey, whatever floats your boat. What kills me is seeing someone with a really mediocre system spending tons of money on cables--always focus on the quality of the basic components first.

reeltrouble1

what a blah blah blah panty load. I use the wire I want because I like the way the music sounds with it. if thats ego then I got tons of it, so what?

RT1

shack

Yawn.....

Ricardo

mantis wrote: »

I wanted to put something out there

Well, you should have...instead of putting it in here

95Honda

Well, there are a lot of things left out in that first post. Music is not DC or steady state AC (like 60Hz power). There are many factors that can make an audible and measurable difference in cabling. Impedance, Charactarisitc Impedance, Capacitence and Inductance all play major roles in audio. You can have a cable that is extremely low resistance (DC resistance like you measure with a DMM) and large gauge, but could have enough capacitence to start rolling off the top end of the audio spectrum, or even worse cause an un-stable amplifer to run into oscillation.... There are just too many factors to consider to say that DC resistance only is key to cable... It plays a major role, probably th emost important, but not the only role.

cfrizz

Oh good God. I'm not going to become an electrical engineer to investigate all of that! I just want the wires to pass the signal from one peice of gear to the next so that I can hear my music & movies!

lakesailor

Since when did audio and Hi-fidelity ever make sense ? Just imagine what the world of consumer electronics would be like in general if we tried to apply principles of common sense as the common denominator

jakelm

hey everyone...YOOOOOOOHOOOOO!!!! over here ....come on..... hurry up, the bus is leaving....

tonyb

RUN!!!!!! Come on everyone.....oh,look at the kitty.......Run!!!!!!!!!

zingo

I like your theory mantis and I also feel that holds true, from musical and electronic principles.

Lakesailor, you have the best retort I've seen all day. Props.

obieone

OOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!Will you make UP your minds ALREADY!!!!

mantis

Ricardo wrote: »

Well, you should have...instead of putting it in here

waaaaaaaaaa you got me with that one. LOL.

Good **** man.

mantis

95Honda wrote: »

Well, there are a lot of things left out in that first post. Music is not DC or steady state AC (like 60Hz power). There are many factors that can make an audible and measurable difference in cabling. Impedance, Charactarisitc Impedance, Capacitence and Inductance all play major roles in audio. You can have a cable that is extremely low resistance (DC resistance like you measure with a DMM) and large gauge, but could have enough capacitence to start rolling off the top end of the audio spectrum, or even worse cause an un-stable amplifer to run into oscillation.... There are just too many factors to consider to say that DC resistance only is key to cable... It plays a major role, probably th emost important, but not the only role.

I tried to keep it simple my brother. Wire that is properly designed to do a certain job. Thats the starting point. Effects on the overall sound quality is a totally deeper topic. This is where trial and error comes into play. There is no way to tell unless you try.

Many companies get this job done in very different ways. You have to listen for yourself man. the spec's don't always tell the enitire story. You bring up good points but I find it to be to much. It's going deeper then most are willing. Audiophiles are a different breed of people.

mantis

lakesailor wrote: »

Since when did audio and Hi-fidelity ever make sense ? Just imagine what the world of consumer electronics would be like in general if we tried to apply principles of common sense as the common denominator

Alot of companies would go out of bussiness I'll tell you that.

SKsolutions

A glut of magic pebbles perhaps?

mmadden28

Lets say I wired up my HT with such-and-such speaker wire for 5.1. And later I decide to try out 7.1 or even bi-wiring/bi-amping and have to run new wire. How important is it then to match the existing wiring?Should I stick with the same brand/model? I would imagine sticking with the same guage is a no-brainer (or is it?)

mmadden28

steveinaz wrote: »

What kills me is seeing someone with a really mediocre system spending tons of money on cables--always focus on the quality of the basic components first.

Is it unreasonable to future proof wiring? Running speakerwire is not a simple task (assuming of course you're running it in walls, etc), so to me it would make sense that if at some point down the road you wanted to upgrade your 'basic/mediocre' system that planning ahead is just logical.

When I put my wiring in, I made the 'investment' in better (now to be determined) or should I say more expensive wiring in the hopes that one day...Well now that day has come, all I have to do is put new speakers in (well OK and a new sub, and a new reciever, and a new amp, etc, etc. :eek:)

-Madden

mmadden28

So is there a list out there somewhere with a subjective rating or general concens of certain brands of quality wire / price factor? And what brands to avoid?

Is there a fairly accepted standard of minimum wire gauge for certain wattages? or is distance the only real factor?

wizzy

mmadden28 wrote: »

Is there a fairly accepted standard of minimum wire gauge for certain wattages? or is distance the only real factor?

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge

Might help a little.

disneyjoe7

mantis wrote: »

Heavier guage wire for speakers don't help anything unless the run where of a certain length. When resistance increases, thicker wire is required to get the job done.
Dan

This is what made me a strong fan of AudioQuest cable where they state a thin guage for the tweeters and a larger guage for the bass. As the frequency of the signal rides on the skin of the wire not the center, so smaller wire is better for high frequencies. I like the fact they use a solid wire, where other use a stranded wire which as many small skinned effect things going on maybe.