Soild Speaker Wire?

treitz3

Do you have any scientific evidence whatsoever that salt makes a difference? How can it change the taste? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that salt changes the flavor. I want measurements damnit and I want them now! There is absolutely no freakin' way that salt can change the taste of food. I know, I've tried.

Popcorn salt, sea salt, iodized salt, uniodized....that's all you guys EVER talk about and yet not one scientific study can prove to me as of today's date that any kind of salt can change the taste of my food. Any salt for that matter.

And yes, I've tried salt in a blind test, in a restaurant, at my own eating location and even a tried a double blind test under controlled conditions. So far you guys can't come up with jack. Until you do, I am going to keep pushing my point, especially on newbies that join this forum that salt absolutely does not make a damn bit of difference when it comes to the taste of my food. That's the cold hard truth and Fact! Eat that behauches!

ben62670

treitz3 wrote: »

Do you have any scientific evidence whatsoever that salt makes a difference? How can it change the taste? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that salt changes the flavor. I want measurements damnit and I want them now! There is absolutely no freakin' way that salt can change the taste of food. I know, I've tried.

Popcorn salt, sea salt, iodized salt, uniodized....that's all you guys EVER talk about and yet not one scientific study can prove to me as of today's date that any kind of salt can change the taste of my food. Any salt for that matter.

And yes, I've tried salt in a blind test, in a restaurant, at my own eating location and even a tried a double blind test under controlled conditions. So far you guys can't come up with jack. Until you do, I am going to keep pushing my point, especially on newbies that join this forum that salt absolutely does not make a damn bit of difference when it comes to the taste of my food. That's the cold hard truth and Fact! Eat that behauches!

Your funny:D

F1nut

Back to the salt mines for you, Tom.

WilliamM2

mantis wrote: »

How many have you? This is the question you have to ask yourself. What evidence are you looking for?

2 at a local stereo shop, back when I believed cables made a difference. Not I, or anyone else present could identify a difference in the cable when we didn't know what was connected. In the sighted test, we were all sure we heard a difference.

What evidence am I looking for? How about just one verified DBT, or ABX, where listeners were able to differentiate between cables. Surely with these huge differences, someone, somewhere, has been able to do this?

WilliamM2

Do you have any scientific evidence whatsoever that salt makes a difference?

I thought you were going to try and stay on topic?

treitz3

I am. apparently we are on a new topic, thanks to you.

treitz3

The Judge wrote: »

Did I read correctly that some here are using solid wire for speaker connections?

If so, what are the results? What size are you using and what is the distance of the run? Where did you buy wire..HD or Lowes?

Thanks

I believe this was the topic. Not your topic. Am I missing something here?

F1nut

WilliamM2 wrote: »

What evidence am I looking for? How about just one verified DBT, or ABX, where listeners were able to differentiate between cables. Surely with these huge differences, someone, somewhere, has been able to do this?

I seem to recall a few forum members did just that a few weeks ago. I also recall reading that the boys from Stereophile did the same at CES (I think) with a 100% success rate.

Now, back to solid wire.

The Judge

treitz3 wrote: »

I am. apparently we are on a new topic, thanks to you.

LOL I Love that poster!

How about a little salt on a copper cable.

ben62670

I like solid wire.
I run AQ type4's on my dims.
I run AQ CVS4's with the DBS on my stereos.
I run silver on my highs when My speakers are Tri Amped.

WilliamM2

treitz3 wrote: »

I believe this was the topic. Not your topic. Am I missing something here?

Apparently so, maybe you missed where the original poser asked this:

When buying solid wire for hook up, is all copper wire created equal or are some brands better than others?

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

2 at a local stereo shop, back when I believed cables made a difference. Not I, or anyone else present could identify a difference in the cable when we didn't know what was connected. In the sighted test, we were all sure we heard a difference.
QUOTE]

Thanks for you vast experience on cables. "2 at a local stereo shop".
Only 2 cables in a most likely less than ideal listening environment. Yeah.
Most likely a receiver, and a cheap to moderate source. Real good basis for arguing against cables for years. I will be sure to exclude any preferences you have pertaining to anything BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID:D

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

I seem to recall a few forum members did just that a few weeks ago. I also recall reading that the boys from Stereophile did the same at CES (I think) with a 100% success rate.

Now, back to solid wire.

The test the forum members did was on CDP's, and it was not blind, or even level matched:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62448

Is there a link to the Stereophile test? I would be very interested in reading it. Google turns up nothing.

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

2 at a local stereo shop, back when I believed cables made a difference. Not I, or anyone else present could identify a difference in the cable when we didn't know what was connected. In the sighted test, we were all sure we heard a difference.
QUOTE]

Thanks for you vast experience on cables. "2 at a local stereo shop".
Only 2 cables in a most likely less than ideal listening environment. Yeah.
Most likely a receiver, and a cheap to moderate source. Real good basis for arguing against cables for years. I will be sure to exclude any preferences you have pertaining to anything BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID:D

Thanks Bill
I'm done

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Thanks for you vast experience on cables. "2 at a local stereo shop".
Only 2 cables in a most likely less than ideal listening environment. Yeah.
Most likely a receiver, and a cheap to moderate source. Real good basis for arguing against cables for years. I will be sure to exclude any preferences you have pertaining to anything BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID:D

He asked how many DBT's, the answer was 2. I have listened to a lot more wires than that. Try a little reading comprehension.

The equipment was all McIntosh, not some cheap reciever, and several wires and interconnects were used.

I'll exclude your opinion based on the fact that you sell cables. Can't get much more biased than that.

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

ben62670 wrote: »

Thanks Bill
I'm done

Learn to read. And work on that quote function while you're at it.

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Learn to read. And work on that quote function while you're at it.

Thanks I will fix that quote problem;)
And BTW I don't make **** off those cables at the prices I sell them to Polkies.

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Thanks I will fix that quote problem;)
And BTW I don't make **** off those cables at the prices I sell them to Polkies.

Very good!

treitz3

Don't feed the troll. Walk away from the keyboard. You can get a better response from the wall as it's more intellectual.

If only we could hunt them................

WilliamM2

treitz3 wrote: »

Don't feed the troll. Walk away from the keyboard. You can get a better response from the wall as it's more intellectual.

If only we could hunt them................

So apparently, when you have nothing to back up your position, you hurl insults.

This is a discussion board treitz, try not to get so upset when someone does not agree with your opinion. It will happen from time to time...

ben62670

Nevermind

ShinAce

Whip it out and settle this one, once and for all.

WilliamM2

Sorry Ben, no need to get personal.

treitz3

Damn Willie, you just never stop do you? We are still apparently on YOUR subject and not The Judges. So why don't I go ahead and address a question you asked that actually DID have something to do with the original topic. I am going to say this final word on this thread and that will be it. I'm done. That's it. It's your show now as I have had better conversations with my dog.

When buying solid wire for hook up, is all copper wire created equal or are some brands better than others?

Thank you for staying on topic WilliamM2. I can not comment on this as I have never compared different brands of copper wire. I have experienced however a change in sonic qualities between sets of wires that do and do not include terminations/shielding and other factors that have led to a change in the end result as to what I hear.

I have been with many sets of wire in various systems with absolutely no change whatsoever but as my audio journey progressed and my rig progressed, the differences in some brands as compared to others started to change. I am pleased with what I currently have but as I've stated before, it is not just wire.

Mr. Judge, if you want to see what I am currently using there is a link provided by me on one of my posts on page 1 of this thread. I am pleased with the results and pay attention to what Dorokusai mentioned. We'll catch up on another thread. Peace.

Face

Here's a different approach on solid cables.
http://www.goertzaudio.com/mi.html

tonyb

Just love these "cables" threads......can anything be more boreing? Make a difference,don't make a difference......jeez.Just try them and decide for yourself.

mantis

WilliamM2 wrote: »

2 at a local stereo shop, back when I believed cables made a difference. Not I, or anyone else present could identify a difference in the cable when we didn't know what was connected. In the sighted test, we were all sure we heard a difference.

What evidence am I looking for? How about just one verified DBT, or ABX, where listeners were able to differentiate between cables. Surely with these huge differences, someone, somewhere, has been able to do this?

Ok so thats your experience with DBT. Cool what about in your own system? How many different kinds of cables have you tried?

Here is what I find funny about all this and this is in general. I believe people get excitied for cables that look pretty. I also think people get hung up on spec's and names on the jacket.Then there is the price. Some cables cost in the upper thound dollar range. I don't judge wires by any of these things. I'll give you a short story. I have been in the bussiness for over 9 years now. I also have been into this hobby since the 80's. Monstercable was suppost to be the be all end all of cables. Everyone thought that around here so without knowing for myself, I went with it. I'm also a musican since 1979. I noticed y first anything cable wise there. Whirlwind makes guitar cables. I used whatever my local had and I really didn't pay attention to the brand. My Uncle played guitar and was in bands for years. He asked me to check out these Whirlwind cords for 2 reasons. One they sound better then the regular cables and they last forever. He switched his rig to them. So I heard a change in how my guitar(1970 Fender Strat with a Fender Twin reverb) sounded and was shocked that a cable could do this. I never really noticed anything with the other brands I used.
In home stereo and home theater my first notice was with my Advent and Pinacle speakers. I had some Radioshack 16g wire and I purchased my first Monstercable. My system to me sounded different.
Over the years after I started working in the field, I met so many Audiophiles. I worked for a company(Soundex) who carried the extreme high end. We had cables costing 36k for 6 foot speaker wires. Crazy?? Maybe so but if your pockets where that deep, you owned them with pride.
We had one customer I will never forget. He had a 2 Million dollar home and a 2 Million or so dollar Audio and video basement. He had the sickest Home theater I ever worked in (all Krell and Wilson Audio with Runco Projector) and 3 different 2 channel rooms. This nut case had a closet with speaker wires and Interconnects all hanging in perfect harmony. It looked like a wire showcase. I asked why he had so many different kinds of wires and why not use the best one on all his rigs. Here's what he told me......
" I have been into Audio for 30+ years. I have owned just about every preamp amp and speaker combo you can put together( I believed him as he had a sick amount of gear). I have 3 different room due to how the all sound. I have 3 different systems that all perform differently. I also have other amps and speakers for each room depending on what I'm going to listen to. This dictates which system I will be using. Now I also have a closet full of matching Ic and speaker wires for the kind of music I'm gonna listen to and which system they will be wired up 2. Some of these cable work really well with Jazz music on certain setups, some don't. I don't own a single cable or system that does everything right so I own all of this to be happy.

I left that job with alot of info and experience. I got to hear some of the sickest setups of my life. This dude is a rich Audiophile and price didn't stop him from reaching his sonic perfection. Now I didn't agree with him on all his points but the whole music thing I heard differences when he changed cables. I don't know if anyone could explain why changing cables makes audio differences. Everyone he owned should have been able to carry the signal in it's exact form as close to or exactly as the next set. All of his cables where top of the line in the brands he had but yet when he changed them, his system sounded different. I don't know if better or worse applies here. It was different. I liked it both ways. He had his reasons.

Over the years I have spent **** amount of money on cables for my systems. Without the resources I have I would never been able to afford or even try this. I have learned over my time with cables is they do sound different. Depending on the 2 cables how different can be slight or great. Some cables sound exaclty the same. I have tried different levels of alot of brands only to find hardly no difference if any at all.

I also believe no one can tell you what cables are better for ones system over others. The only thing that matters first is construction. A cable no matter what kind it is needs to be built to spec for the job it's going to do. Each signal has a requirement to do it's job. Once a cable can meet those requirements a better cable is not needed. A waste of time and money will apply here. the value is in the one reaching in is pocket. With that in mind knowing this and that cable has the ability to get the job done. They are properly built and tested to spec to get this job done. 2 different companies use different technics to achieve the same goal. You listen to them and hear a difference. Why????

dave shepard

mantis wrote: »

I have learned over my time with cables is they do sound different. Depending on the 2 cables how different can be slight or great. Some cables sound exaclty the same. I have tried different levels of alot of brands only to find hardly no difference if any at all.

Sorry, but you lost me on that one Bro..

Dave

Face

Made perfect sense to me.

Sometimes a brand puts out a few similar cables, with slight differences between them. Sometimes the difference is so slight that it can pretty much be undetectable.

I have tried Gortz's Micro Purl and Toluene cables. They're similar designs, but one is a heavier gage than the other. IMO, they sound almost exactly the same to me. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from one or the other listening back to back or side by side. They both also lack bass and are kind of on the bright side. Perfect for those bi-amping and using tubes for the top end. But, comparing them to Goertz's Sapphire cables, they're night and day. The Sapphires are much warmer sounding and have plenty of bass, but are too thick of a gage IMO and get congested on certain passages. FIY, these are all solid core silver cables.

mantis

Face wrote: »

Made perfect sense to me.

Sometimes a brand puts out a few similar cables, with slight differences between them. Sometimes the difference is so slight that it can pretty much be undetectable.

I have tried Gortz's Micro Purl and Toluene cables. They're similar designs, but one is a heavier gage than the other. IMO, they sound almost exactly the same to me. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference from one or the other listening back to back or side by side. They both also lack bass and are kind of on the bright side. Perfect for those bi-amping and using tubes for the top end. But, comparing them to Goertz's Sapphire cables, they're night and day. The Sapphires are much warmer sounding and have plenty of bass, but are too thick of a gage IMO and get congested on certain passages. FIY, these are all solid core silver cables.

Thats exaclty what I was getting at. Audioquest for instance there IC's every last one without the batterys sound almost exaclty the same. I have a very hard time hearing any differences. I build Itc 1.1 Ic's with there custom ends that press on and they sound exaclty like the Sidewinders. I hear no difference. If there is it's so slight I can't notice it.

Understanding what needs to get done is key. For speaker wire to use like 9 guage to run 10 feet in my opnion is a waste. It's overkill. The goal is to transfer the audio signal from the amp/receiver to the given speaker. Depending on it's job, it may or may not even need a 14g wire or even 16g. If the signal can be send providing the amount of current the amp has and the freq range , the guage needs to be proper for that job. Another factor is Interference. This causes problems and hinders the signal to remain true. using good quality cables applies here. I find cable from the likes of Home Depot to be a poor choice. Not because of the guage or anything like that but the quality. There jackets are poor. They have no ability to hold up over a long period of time. I can't even count how high I have had to replace this kind of wire in peoples homes where the wire turned green. There is reasons for that.

Fighting over this topic in my opnion is pointless. Understanding is what everyone needs to do. Figure out the job you need done, then use proper wire for that job. Keep in mind the length and the aount of signal your sending like having a speaker in large of small.