Subwoofer in Direct/Stereo mode?

Serendipity

Like most AVR's, my Onkyo TX-SR702 does not output any signals to the subwoofer when in 2-channel "Direct" mode. I was thinking about using the speaker-level connections to get around this, but thought that I would ask here first:

1. When using the speaker-level connections, does the crossover in the sub act as a low-pass filter only, or does it also cut the bass to the front speakers?
2. If the sub's dial is set to 80Hz, the front speakers don't play full range and only go down to roughly 80Hz? Or does the setting only affect the sub?
3. Are there any drawbacks to using this setup?

tcrossma

I think it depends a bit on the sub, but my understanding is that generally the sub has a low-pass filter only and a full signal is sent to the speakers.

crd2002

if you put it in stereo it will work with your 2 fronts

Face

Do you have a external amp for your fronts?

If you, you can run 2 Y's, one to your sub, one to your amp.

If you don't, you can run the front pre amps L&R to the sub in L&R, NOT LFE in. Then you'll have to tune your crossover frequency. Your mains should still play full range.

jakelm

AVR to sub, then sub to speakers:

Sub xover for sub, full range for speakers. The sub does not contain a xover for the speakers hooked to it. The xover only works for the sub itself.

Serendipity

Face wrote: »

Do you have a external amp for your fronts?

If you, you can run 2 Y's, one to your sub, one to your amp.

If you don't, you can run the front pre amps L&R to the sub in L&R, NOT LFE in. Then you'll have to tune your crossover frequency. Your mains should still play full range.

No, I used to have an Adcom amp but I gave it away to a friend.

So I guess the only thing I can do is to run the speaker wire connectors into the sub and then that out to the speakers, that way I don't have to worry about any L&R line in jacks or LFE connections, right?

Serendipity

This is what I'm talking about:

(From www.crutchfieldadvisor.com)
"Q: Can I hook up a powered subwoofer if my receiver doesn't have a subwoofer output?

A: Absolutely. Most powered subwoofers have speaker-level connections for use with virtually any receiver. Just run one set of speaker cables from your receiver's main left and right speaker outputs to the subwoofer, then another from the subwoofer to your main left and right speakers (you'll need an extra pair of speaker cables)."

jakelm

Yes. Most all subs have high input spearker terminals. These terminals are used to hook speaker cable to them from the AVR's speaker out put. Low input are the RCA input, used to hook the sub up via RCA jacks.

After hooking up the high input on the sub you hook the speakers up to:

1. Either directly to the AVR via speaker out.
2. The sub speaker out on the sub.

In either connection, the AVR should be set to Large mains. Having full range going to both sub and speakers. The sub xover should be set, by ear, where it blends in with the main speakers. There is nothing to do with the main speakers. Excpt calibrate them with the channel level, on the AVR to blend with the rest of the HT.

Serendipity

When you say hook the speakers "to the AVR via speaker out," do you mean in parallel with the sub that's also connected to the AVR via speaker out?

jakelm

appadv wrote: »

When you say hook the speakers "to the AVR via speaker out," do you mean in parallel with the sub that's also connected to the AVR via speaker out?

Yes.

Serendipity

Okay, thanks!

jakelm

I have done this. Because I am using dual subs and the subs were too far to run cable form them to my speakers.

But I changed since then, LFE for subs now.

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

I have done this. Because I am using dual subs and the subs were too far to run cable form them to my speakers.

But I changed since then, LFE for subs now.

Oh, okay. My sub will be placed right next to the main speakers, so I think I'll do something like this:

Receiver (speaker terminals) -> Sub -> Speakers

Early B.

jakelm wrote: »

I have done this. Because I am using dual subs and the subs were too far to run cable form them to my speakers.

But I changed since then, LFE for subs now.

Did you notice any differences in sound quality when you made this change?

jakelm

Early B. wrote: »

Did you notice any differences in sound quality when you made this change?

Absolutly. The 7's were full range before with the subs, in direct mode. By connecting the subs to the LFE I am able to adjust the xover point on the 7's to 60hz. IMO, better for HT, for music it isnt bad. I can just switch the AVR to large + sub for mains.
But direct mode kills sub, when sub hooked to LFE. So I rarely play direct mode. In the position my 7's are in bass responce is not so good. But listening to HT in such high dB's, I set my xover to 60hz as not to blow the 7's and allow the sub to carry the explosions...

Serendipity

Would just like to point out -

If you have your mains set as "Large" and the receiver is set in any 2-channel mode, then the sub does not receive any signal. So that is the motivation for me to try the speaker level connections

I'd have to set the mains to "Small" or hook up the sub the way jakelm mentioned to get it working while listening to music.

jakelm

appadv wrote: »

Would just like to point out -

If you have your mains set as "Large" and the receiver is set in any 2-channel mode, then the sub does not receive any signal. So that is the motivation for me to try the speaker level connections

I'd have to set the mains to "Small" or hook up the sub the way jakelm mentioned to get it working while listening to music.

HMMMmm...You AVR does not have Large + Sub stereo? For 2 channel listening?

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

HMMMmm...You AVR does not have Large + Sub stereo? For 2 channel listening?

I'm away from my AVR right now (I'm in my college dorm) so I couldn't really tell you until I go home and look at it.

From what I recall though, if the mains are set to "Large" the sub does not play in stereo mode. When set to "Small," the sub plays in stereo mode.

jakelm

Check again, but the 702 should have Large + Sub.

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

Check again, but the 702 should have Large + Sub.

You're probably right.

I don't think it's enabled by default though, because out of the box the 702 does not output anything to the sub in Stereo mode.

jakelm

I am reviewing the manual right now.. Give me a sec.

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

I am reviewing the manual right now.. Give me a sec.

Thanks for the help!

jakelm

Page 46 of the manual. Manual speaker setup. Check to make sure that the sub is yes and the front mains are large. That should be the default setting, if it isnt, maybe by changing this opetion , it will make it default.

Press reciever then setup, go to option2 speaker setup., then option one, speaker config. There it should give you the option to adjust speaker size and sub

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

Page 46 of the manual. Manual speaker setup. Check to make sure that the sub is yes and the front mains are large. That should be the default setting, if it isnt, maybe by changing this opetion , it will make it default.

Press reciever then setup, go to option2 speaker setup., then option one, speaker config. There it should give you the option to adjust speaker size and sub

A while back I made sure the sub was set to "yes" and the front mains were set to "large." In this configuration the subwoofer only played the .1 of a 5.1 DVD audio track. It did not play on music.

jakelm

After hitting stereo on the reciever, did you try hitting stereo multiple times to get different stereo modes? Or while in stereo mode, go to the speaker config option to make sure

Serendipity

I think I did that. IIRC, the only time the sub was active was in a surround mode, such as DPLII, Neo:6 or DD/DTS.

I just read the following: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=10420&i=580TXS805S&tp=179&tab=detailed_info

For the TX-SR805, it states that there is a Double Bass function: "You can increase the bass output by activating the Double Bass function. This function feeds both the LFE and left and right channel bass output to the subwoofer. Double Bass can be set only when the subwoofer is set to On and the front speakers are set to Large."

Is that what I should be looking for?

jakelm

It says it in the second photo.. That in stereo mode front and subs will play.

jakelm

appadv wrote: »

I think I did that. IIRC, the only time the sub was active was in a surround mode, such as DPLII, Neo:6 or DD/DTS.

I just read the following: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=10420&i=580TXS805S&tp=179&tab=detailed_info

For the TX-SR805, it states that there is a Double Bass function: "You can increase the bass output by activating the Double Bass function. This function feeds both the LFE and left and right channel bass output to the subwoofer. Double Bass can be set only when the subwoofer is set to On and the front speakers are set to Large."

Is that what I should be looking for?

Yes, double bass = front bass and sub bass

Double bass is default off. Change to on. There ya go

My dad has the same AVR, I remember strereo working just fine. Now I rememeber (or you remembered) double bass.

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

It says it in the second photo.. That in stereo mode front and subs will play.

Hmm, interesting. The manual is correct only if you have "Small" mains selected... or am I doing something wrong?

I think I'll go and look for a "Double Bass" setting. Maybe it should be set to on.

Serendipity

jakelm wrote: »

Yes, double bass = front bass and sub bass

Double bass is default off. Change to on. There ya go

My dad has the same AVR, I remember strereo working just fine. Now I rememeber (or you remembered) double bass.

Aha, now I understand this whole thing. Double bass needs to be on.

jakelm

I edited my last post, sorry, It is the double bass feature.