I wish more people will learn from this...

avelanchefan

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/05/missing.hiker/index.html

I watched this on TV tonight and just shook my head. I know living with a fear mentality let's the other guy win, but when does it come a point when people will learn to travel in pairs when hiking. There are some real nut cases out there, and a expert in Tae Kwon Do does you no good. (As it did this young lady)

After watching this I turned to my two boy's and rather sternly told them this is why I require them to walk home together from school. They always try to find an excuse not to, but the ban hammer (from computers and mp3 players) comes out when they chose to disobey me. I think I finally saw a realization in their eyes tonight when we talked about it.

And quite honestly when growing up in the mountains of Colorado, I was never allowed to venture off by myself without a friend or adult with me. And this was 20 years ago. Maybe not because of creepo's hanging out in the woods, but you never know what you may encounter. The people in this world get crazier and another life is snuffed due to a superior attitude of "that will never happen to me"!

R.I.P. Meredeth Emerson

hearingimpared

Very well put!

dkg999

No substitute for the buddy system. Obviously the self-defense training didn't help, the two dogs didn't help, and somehow she was taken off her guard. Very sad. What I hope happens to the guy they say did this would get this thread locked if I stated it.

PolkThug

Concealed carry all the way.

shadowofnight

PolkThug wrote: »

Concealed carry all the way.

Takes care of the animal threats...2 and 4 legged variety

lightman1

PolkThug wrote: »

Concealed carry all the way.

Carry it in the open. Let's 'em know you mean "Don't even think about it."

mrbigbluelight

An expert in Tae Kwon Do, with dogs, and carrying a a police-style baton.

Versus a 61 year-old man.

And the man "won".

Having the technical skills in martial arts doesn't necessarily give you the upper hand in a fight unless you are actually capable of using those skills.
Perhaps she was drugged, perhaps her inner upbringing ("Be nice !") overrode her martial arts training just long enough to give this guy the upper hand.

The same would apply to firearms. When push comes to shove, you have to be willing to use it. Not "search and destroy", to be sure, but "defend and defeat".

george daniel

It's a damn shame,,my family has hiked in that area for years,unfortunately I doubt that she will be found alive. The guy should be hung from the nearest tree.:mad:

McLoki

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

An expert in Tae Kwon Do, with dogs, and carrying a a police-style baton.

Versus a 61 year-old man.

And the man "won".

The 61 year-old man was carrying the PR-24. Plus they were seen talking and that means he was close enough to use a stun gun.

wingnut4772

She probably was too trusting of a stranger. This is really a sad story. The grim realization of knowing what some of humanity is capable of makes me really wonder if God isn't ready to bring it yet.

steveinaz

For being a so-called "seasoned" hiker, she sure broke alot of basic rules. Pack a firearm ladies...PLEASE! There was no need for this to happen. I agree that in this scenario "open-carry" would be the best choice--let them know you are armed, they will look for an easier target.

wingnut4772

steveinaz wrote: »

For being a so-called "seasoned" hiker, she sure broke alot of basic rules. Pack a firearm ladies...PLEASE! There was no need for this to happen.

Even if she'd had one it might not have made a difference. These guys pick their victims. They can smell kindness and weakness a mile away. It's all about how you carry yourself and your attitude as well. Unfortunately it does not pay to be nice to strangers anymore.

steveinaz

True, but at least it's an option. No gun = you're screwed, period.

wingnut4772

steveinaz wrote: »

True, but at least it's an option. No gun = you're screwed, period.

Agreed. I hate guns but I will always have one.

ohskigod

I wouldn't say this young lady did anything wrong, as it seemed she took some basic steps to protect herself (baton, martial arts training), but there are other steps in life to take to protect yourself. One is acknowledging the large target you are.

If your an attractive young woman walking alone in the woods, your a target. it's unfortunate, terrible, and downright unfair......but TRUE....and the truth unacknowledged can kill you.

unfortunatly, I have to say being an attractive young woman alone in the woods is a target a small group of evil people can and will not resist.

this story, along with other tragic ones, should remind us at all times that as nice as this country is, as relatively law abiding as it is, there will ALWAYS be people out there wiling to do us harm, and its primarily your responsibility to protect yourself. This is why I take self protection and defense very seriously. was ingrained with it from jumpstreet from my dad. I come off as paranoid at times, but it kept me alive in alot of sh*tty situations in my life.

this is a cool website with alot of good views of overall self defense (not just martial art stuff, but how to conduct yourself overall to put you at less risk of attack and being a criminal target. I look at this site as a reference all the time. I dont agree with all of it, but alot of it makes sence.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

ohskigod

oh, and I hate to say this as any tae kwon do practitioners might take offence, but Tae Kwon do has little to no street apllication. keep in mind that I took it for a small spell (less than a year) with about 2 years of Okinawan Karate. my take is this, take the liitle direct street aplicability out of Okinawan karate, and you pretty much have tae kwon do.

its not to say a spinning back kick to the head wont hurt someone, but doing that in a real life scenario is not as easy as you think.

BaggedLancer

I bet Chuck Norris could do a spinning back kick to the head.

ohskigod

Chuck's more of a straight up, not flashy, roundhouse kick to the head guy.....and I respect that

ohskigod

wingnut4772 wrote: »

Even if she'd had one it might not have made a difference. These guys pick their victims. They can smell kindness and weakness a mile away. It's all about how you carry yourself and your attitude as well. Unfortunately it does not pay to be nice to strangers anymore.

p.s. this statement is very on the money. of course, being a cop and seeing this on a daily basis helps i"m sure .

treitz3

I have never used the buddy system and I grew up in the DC area. Rode my bike out to the Shenandoah on many occasion as a ten year old on up. Walked deep into what woods were left all over Fairfax County. Hiked in the mountains alone. I have always heard that you need a "buddy", but that's not how I do things. The way I look at it, if it's your time to go then it has nothing to do with whether or not you have a buddy. How many times have you heard of two "buddies" having the same thing as this young lady happen to them?

The only time I recall being REALLY scared was when I was with my good friend Jason out in the George Washington National Forest and ran across a baby bear. Now, my parents instilled in me as a real young kid, that if you ever see a baby bear, you know Mama's real close and to skiddaddle out of the area quickly if you have the time, running downhill. I signaled to Jason to "run" and then, as I was running realized that the smell we were commenting about was the bear. Now, that time, I had a buddy. If we had encountered mama, I don't think he would have made a difference.

Living in fear is something I choose not to do. I won't do it for the crazy people, I won't do it for the murderers and I damn sure won't do it for the terrorists. Awareness, keeping tab with your surroundings and being taught the ability to sense danger before it has a chance to attract you like a magnet is the best defense.

For example, let's say she had a buddy. Her buddy was trained in martial arts as well. They both had two dogs each. They should feel safe right? No. All it takes is one whacko with a tranquilizer gun. In the middle of the woods...who's gonna see?

If it's your time, it's your time. I understand being careful and all that jazz, but crossing the street can be just as dangerous. Do you have a "buddy" walk you across the street?

wingnut4772

ohskigod wrote: »

oh, and I hate to say this as any tae kwon do practitioners might take offence, but Tae Kwon do has little to no street apllication. keep in mind that I took it for a small spell (less than a year) with about 2 years of Okinawan Karate. my take is this, take the liitle direct street aplicability out of Okinawan karate, and you pretty much have tae kwon do.

its not to say a spinning back kick to the head wont hurt someone, but doing that in a real life scenario is not as easy as you think.

This is true. Tae Kwon Do is sport karate.

ohskigod

Tom, there is nothing you can do to make yourself absolutly safe. but you walking alone, being a guy who can probably handle himself to an extent, and being a 20 something year old woman, is 2 different ballgames. If we look at the attackers goal in this case (rape and kill and young woman and make body dissappear). It is FAR easier to do it with one woman walking alone then with 2 women walking. the increased difficulty had a very high chance of making the attacker wait for an easier target. I'm not saying definitly, because there are no definites, but it would be very probable given the type of guy the attacker was from a standard profile standpoint.

Like you. I am alone in situations when I probably shouldn't be. I am less concerned because I am a 300+ lb guy who can handle himself. just the over 300 lb part makes me a not too appealing target for the criminal element. I;m not saying I cant be overpowered or that I am indestructible, I'm just not worth it to a vast majority of the criminal element that will be more than happy to wait for a far easier target than me.

a 120lb hiking woman does not share this luxury

treitz3

ohskigod wrote: »

a 120lb hiking woman does not share this luxury

Hehe. Nor did the 110lb. toothpick on wheels [me]. I'm sure members of CP may disagree with me, but awareness, keeping tabs with my surroundings and being taught the ability to sense danger has kept me alive and kicking in some very bad areas when I was less than the size of this woman. Even a grown man, packing a gun for the world to see can be in danger, unless he is is continually aware of the situation around him.

I'm just saying that no amount of preparation can keep you safe and alive. Heck, a couple of months back, a drunk driver rammed into one of our own while he was sleeping in bed. Does that mean in order to protect himself, he should barricade his house? I'm saying that if it's your time to go.....

BaggedLancer

When in doubt, run.

cfrizz

BINGO! OSG!

You have a lot less to be afraid of Tom. How times do you hear of this kind of thing happening to a man?

Most women simply are not that lucky & we have to take extra precautions. If I am out at night, you better believe that I am with other people & that I have a ride straight to my door. My friends wait to make sure I'm safely inside before they pull off. I make sure that my brother in DC knows I'm going to be out & approximately when I will be back. When I meet my friend after work, she drops me off & she calls me to let me know that she got home safely as well.

ohskigod wrote: »

Tom, there is nothing you can do to make yourself absolutly safe. but you walking alone, being a guy who can probably handle himself to an extent, and being a 20 something year old woman, is 2 different ballgames. If we look at the attackers goal in this case (rape and kill and young woman and make body dissappear). It is FAR easier to do it with one woman walking alone then with 2 women walking. the increased difficulty had a very high chance of making the attacker wait for an easier target. I'm not saying definitly, because there are no definites, but it would be very probable given the type of guy the attacker was from a standard profile standpoint.

Like you. I am alone in situations when I probably shouldn't be. I am less concerned because I am a 300+ lb guy who can handle himself. just the over 300 lb part makes me a not too appealing target for the criminal element. I;m not saying I cant be overpowered or that I am indestructible, I'm just not worth it to a vast majority of the criminal element that will be more than happy to wait for a far easier target than me.

a 120lb hiking woman does not share this luxury

avelanchefan

treitz3 wrote: »

Living in fear is something I choose not to do. I won't do it for the crazy people, I won't do it for the murderers and I damn sure won't do it for the terrorists. Awareness, keeping tab with your surroundings and being taught the ability to sense danger before it has a chance to attract you like a magnet is the best defense.

For example, let's say she had a buddy. Her buddy was trained in martial arts as well. They both had two dogs each. They should feel safe right? No. All it takes is one whacko with a tranquilizer gun. In the middle of the woods...who's gonna see?

If it's your time, it's your time. I understand being careful and all that jazz, but crossing the street can be just as dangerous. Do you have a "buddy" walk you across the street?

I guess maybe you would have to walk in women's shoes to understand it. Maybe she felt the same way you did about not being scared and giving into the whole "i'm not giving into the crazy people" bit. But I bet she would have different feelings about it today if you could talk to her.

My wife was harassed by two men when she was in college, and it scared the crap out of her. She still has scars today about it, and that was just mental harassment.

beardog03

BaggedLancer wrote: »

When in doubt, run.

WRONG..

When in doubt ~ Knock `em out !

THat sticker has been on my gas tank , on my bike for 8 years !!




better to be wrong, than sorry.....

beardog03

cfrizz wrote: »

BINGO! OSG!

You have a lot less to be afraid of Tom. How times do you hear of this kind of thing happening to a man?

Most women simply are not that lucky & we have to take extra precautions. If I am out at night, you better believe that I am with other people & that I have a ride straight to my door. My friends wait to make sure I'm safely inside before they pull off. I make sure that my brother in DC knows I'm going to be out & approximately when I will be back. When I meet my friend after work, she drops me off & she calls me to let me know that she got home safely as well.

Smart woman !

That is how we have to live to protect ourselves...

BaggedLancer

beardog03 wrote: »

WRONG..

When in doubt ~ Knock `em out !

THat sticker has been on my gas tank , on my bike for 8 years !!




better to be wrong, than sorry.....

I never said I'd run.....

ohskigod

if a girl is attacked, they gotta go for the soft targets. most likely a woman (barring freak circumstance) isnt going to throw a hook on the button and knock an attacker out. maximize your strength disadvantage by hitting weak targets like the Groin, Eyeballs, throat, etc. until he is incapacitated, then run like hell away

of course, even better is to do all you can to avoid a situation where you will be attacked. Like, hate to say it, hiking alone in the woods. If your in a situation where you think there is danger, find a cop, or anyone to walk you to your car in a dark parking lot where your alone

again, there are no absolutes, but preventative measures go a long way

beardog03

Lou,

I agree....a left hook to the nugget ain`t gonna happen...

when someone is in a tense, scared position, it`s hard to stay focused enough to do what you need to...

That being said...

The best way to prevent attacks, or being in those situations, is to be aware of who and what is around you, and be prepaired for the worst....

and always travel in pairs or small groups

it`s a shame that the world is like it is, but we were all taught not to talk to strangers as children..

too bad we have to be like that as adaults....but around every corner a monster awaits..