rt 2001's - biamped (oh no)

erik4erik4 Posts: 29
Hello:
I don't want to get into the awful debate over bi-amping and bi-wiring. I just have one question. I am currently thinking about bi-amping my 2001's using a Sunfire Theatre Grand Amp. Current source to the top posts, voltage source to the bottom posts (there are two sets of outputs for the main L and R on the amp).
Here's my question, will doing this damage my 2000i's? How about my amp? That's it. Thanks
Post edited by erik4 on
«13

Comments

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    They can't be biamped. If you want to use a line level input to the sub, knock yourself out, others have reported positive results doing that. You can't biamp them though.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    Maybe I should have stated my question a little differently. I know the 2001's are not meant to be biamped. Will it cause my speakers harm to bi-amp them and inturn turn the gain way down on the internal sub amp. If you do this they sound great bi-amped. Only potential problem ...I'm asking the internal amp to amplify an amplified signal, even though the gain is cut back dramatically. Will it burn out the internal sub amp or cause problems with the internal wiring? I won't persist if you tell me so. Thanks..
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    I can't think of a reason why it would harm the amp or the speaker.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    I forgot to mention I was using a load invarient amp - Sunfire 5 channel 200 W each. Thanks again. I am concerned about harming the speakers after all this discussion (past and present) about the powered 1000's and 2000's not being able to be biamped. Should the remark have been "I see no benefit to biamping"...or what? No offense Troy but are you sure doing this won't harm anything? I'm a novice at this. Who are you anyway = nicely put? I really am grateful. Thanks.
  • Ron-PRon-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,511
    edited November 2002
    Who are you anyway
    He is.....BTD. If you've got it see a doctor.


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,966
    edited November 2002
    Oh man, that's great! :lol:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

    Big Dumb Troy. Just an ordinary schmo, not even particularly intelligent

    My take on it is this, No, the speakers can't be biamped. What you can do is run a high level input to the powered sub, which is what you are essentially asking if you can do. Personally, I can't see that it will do any harm.

    Now, if you are asking if it's the optimum hookup option, well, that would be a matter of preference.

    Nice amp!

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    Troy:
    No offense, but doing what your saying meets my definition of biamping. Albeit, I'm not really "bi-amping" an unmodified sub source just driving a second signal to the already amplified sub in the speaker. If it doesn't harm the speaker then you can biamp by my definition. Am I crazy or in the purest sense not defining biamping correctly. Quit saying you can't biamp 2000i's. If you can send two amplified signals to the inputs, high - mid and sub you are biamping. Forget all that line source crap option. My opinion is that that does nothing except get less out of the speaker. Again, to each his own.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    O no Troy here we go again......I'll watch this one develop from the sidelines..........
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited November 2002
    Here's a rare instance, I'm with you Dan, I want NO part of this discussion.

    ;)

    Ok, I'll throw this out, but THATS IT.

    Erik, the bottom posts on the 2000 are high (speaker) level inputs, just like any common stand-alone subwoofer has. I'll leave it at that. Listen to Troy, if you need further confirmation, email [email protected].

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    Yes rare it is........DUDE.....how the hell are yeah?

    Ok since where together on this one,I wouldn't bi amp them,I see no gain other then a sonic signature and that can be had threw speaker level with one amp.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    Troy and I have been discussing things ,its not the same without you........Not that Troy isn't good company or anything,just isn't the same...
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    Yeah, I'm not into rehashing it either. It ain't biamping. However, if you like the sound, good on ya. No offense taken at all. I will only add that 'biamp' isn't a terribly subjective term. Either you can or you can't. In this case, it's the latter.

    Bottom line, you aren't going to hurt the amp or the speaker.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    Troy you know you love talking about it........I like reading what you say about it.

    So how's it hanging today???

    So are you still done with me or can we just be friends?????;)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited November 2002
    Biamping vs. Biwiring

    Who will win this pointless debate?

    Can't we all just get along.

    Remember when we used to have recess and play on the monkey bars together?

    Can't we relive that moment and find some peace.
    I sense much dishonesty in you...............Sense much fear in you.
    Lead you down the dark path they will.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    You are right Dan, I have never owned RT1000's or 2000's. I do think they would be sporty in the gargage rig though. :)

    Hey, it's a fact, they can't be biwired or amped. No biggie, if you disagree, no skin off my nose.

    Sure we can be friends, I only meant I was done with you on that particular issue.

    BTW, I wasn't ignoring your AIM, I was just away from the computer.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    Troy,
    you should pick up a pair just for the experience alone,there worth it.Then if you don't care fro em, they will sell.....

    You where away from your computer huh.........ok next time man......

    Bi amp/ bi wire......gotta love that debate.........
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    Thanks Troy.
    I'm done with this thread. You answered my question(s) quite nicely.
  • Ron-PRon-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,511
    edited November 2002
    Speaker wire is all the same no matter how much you pay per foot.

    dts is way better than dd on EVERY dvd no matter what.

    My dad can beat up your dad.

    Silence of the Lambs sucks.

    I saw Russ and Troy kiss, it's in their video.


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    deny, deny, deny.....

    I wasn't me.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited November 2002
    Ya and your Dad does not want to mess with my Mom!

    She's a Mean 1... I'm just tellin ya. ;)
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited November 2002
    I'll take erik4 over Russ and Troy combined in the "Bi-Amp, Bi-Wire, rt 2001's SmackDown" he is one mean motherhucker to treat BDT so shabbily.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    Hey wait a minute...I didn't treat BTD badly, but after getting only 22 responses in this thread I see I have come up way short of the "wire" discussion thread. So, having said that, lamp cord used to drive 200 W/ Channel on an old Dynaco 400 I have. It sounded great - still does! The wire in todays market is purely marketing driven. How insane can we be? Well, I just spent $400. on some patch cords for my new amp and preamp (supposed to be nitrogen infused - whatever the heck that means). They got me. I bowed to the "monster marketeer". On another note I am enjoying my bi-amped 2000i's. More of you out there should try it. (I couldn't resist)
  • capitan100capitan100 Posts: 172
    edited November 2002
    bottom line is: Do you think they sound better? I honestly can't really see a gain in performance, because the high level input is just going to take the signal and convert it. In essence... aren't you just wasting the Sunfire amp signal...? Now if you disconnected the built in subwoofer amp to the subs and directly hooked up the amp to the subs(If the amp had a crossover) that may work.
    I'm not a pro, but that is just what I personally think...Anyone else have any suggestions?
    Home Theater
    Sony DA7ES 7.1 A/V Receiver
    Sony DVP-NC80V - SACD/DVD player
    CS400 - Center channel
    RT2000i - Fronts
    RT1000i - Surrounds
    a/d/s MS3/u - subwoofer
    Hitachi 62 inch HD TV

    2 Channel Room
    Niles HDL-4 Speaker Selector
    Niles HDL-6 Speaker Selector
    Sony V555ES receiver
    Sony DVP-S7700
    Polk SDA-2B
    Polk Monitor 5
    Thiel 03a
    B&W 2001 ZMF
    Signet SL-250 B/U
    a/d/s L400e
    Wharfedale Valdus 100SE
    Polk PSW 350 - subwoofer
    Pioneer Elite Big Screen
  • erik4erik4 Posts: 29
    edited November 2002
    It's funny because I'm getting a stronger, tighter, cleaner bass at 1/2 the level (1/4 turn) on the sub amp gain control on the speaker. I don't think I'm wasting the built-in "extra" voltage source (as opposed to current source) output on the Sunfire.
  • capitan100capitan100 Posts: 172
    edited November 2002
    Well if it works for ya...great..good luck..i wish I had an extra amp to try it out in my rt1000's....
    Home Theater
    Sony DA7ES 7.1 A/V Receiver
    Sony DVP-NC80V - SACD/DVD player
    CS400 - Center channel
    RT2000i - Fronts
    RT1000i - Surrounds
    a/d/s MS3/u - subwoofer
    Hitachi 62 inch HD TV

    2 Channel Room
    Niles HDL-4 Speaker Selector
    Niles HDL-6 Speaker Selector
    Sony V555ES receiver
    Sony DVP-S7700
    Polk SDA-2B
    Polk Monitor 5
    Thiel 03a
    B&W 2001 ZMF
    Signet SL-250 B/U
    a/d/s L400e
    Wharfedale Valdus 100SE
    Polk PSW 350 - subwoofer
    Pioneer Elite Big Screen
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    guys, guys, guys....

    No one is saying that using the high level input doesn't sound better. What we (or I) am saying is that it is not biamping. The speaker can not, using the correct definition, be biamped or biwired.

    All done with this one.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited November 2002
    erik4,
    I really didn't want to add anything to this, but you made a point and I agree with it.

    The entire goal of anything you do is trying to improve the overall sound quality,is it not?

    Bi amping,bi wiring,better cables,amps,sources are the tools to reach the goal.Now if any of them further your quest,despite if it's CORRECT or not,then do it.You know trying to bi wire or bi amp powered towers isn't the craziest thing I've read members doing in here.People come out of left field with some thinking they do.I say just have fun with it......who cares if it's right or wrong.Only that it improves the sound quality and doesn't damage anything.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • PETERNGPETERNG Posts: 918
    edited November 2002
    I don't think the issue here is who’s right and who's wrong, everyone wants to do something to improve the sound quality of their speakers to get the maximum performance for the dollars. In this issue here, the true fact is the speaker was not designed for bi amp or bi-wire, you can check with Polk tech dept here if you want to confirm. In my opinion, if it wasn't design for it, you probably may not get any improvement if you want to try. One thing I now for sure that you will get some improvements if you replace the lousy jumper that came with the speaker by a decent quality speaker cable. Come on guy; don't turn this thing to another pissing contest...
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by mantis
    erik4,
    I really didn't want to add anything to this, but you made a point and I agree with it.

    The entire goal of anything you do is trying to improve the overall sound quality,is it not?

    Bi amping,bi wiring,better cables,amps,sources are the tools to reach the goal.Now if any of them further your quest,despite if it's CORRECT or not,then do it.You know trying to bi wire or bi amp powered towers isn't the craziest thing I've read members doing in here.People come out of left field with some thinking they do.I say just have fun with it......who cares if it's right or wrong.Only that it improves the sound quality and doesn't damage anything.

    Maybe I'm not being clear enough so I'm going try one more time (although I don't know why).

    1. Of course the ultimate goal is to achieve better sound quality.

    2. The issue is not if you can hook up the binding posts on the speakers with separate cables from the amp NOR is it if this configuration sounds better. Peter hits the nail on the head, it's not a question of right or wrong.

    3. The issue is really proper terminology. You can call it what ever you like but the plain and simple fact is that it is not biamping (or biwiring). If you think it is, you don't understand what biamping (or biwiring) really is. Not offending anyone but that's just the way it is.

    Sort of like if I put a lift kit and big tires or what have you on my 2WD truck. I can call it what I like but it's not a 4WD. It's not a subjective term and it isn't open to interpretation. The truck may look, drive, go through mud better but it's not a 4WD. (I'm sure it's a flawed analogy but I think you get the idea)

    Again, I'm not trying to ignite another debate but I think some folks are really being misled here.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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