on the third day of christmas.

CAvolleyballguy

My true love gave to me (me) 3 front speakers, 2 powered amps, and a subwoofer without connections for me.

Ok seriously. I am new to this and looking at everyone's suggestions.

I currently have 3 front speakers the rti6 and csi5. My goal is to set this up as I want it for when I get my rti12s.

I have the psw505.
and a gfa5400

#1.
If I understand the polk way correctly...speaker wire from avr left and right to the sub. speaker wire from the sub to the left and right speaker..

In the instructions they dont show that figure, they show figure 7 which shows speaker wire from the avr left and right to both the sub and the speakers. ...ok so let me know if I have #1 right..

#2. If I want to power my fronts with an external amp...the amp does not have speaker wire input, so I can not use the polk method. I have to run pre out to the adcoms, but I can still run speaker wire from avr left and right to the sub, or just go with the LFE if I can control the avr and make sure it is sending out LFE for cds and other non multichannel settings. etc..
Let me know if I have #2 right.

#3. If i want to power my fronts with an amp I have to use crossover of the AVR to control the blend with the sub???

danger boy

here is how to hook it up..

from your AVR, it has to have pre outs... they are RCA outputs.. your AVR will have prob at least 6 of them. Left front, center, right front, left surround, right surround, and subwoofer.

hook up and left and right RCA cable from your AVR's pre out, to the GFA5400 RCA input, hook up your left and right front speaker wires to the GFA5400 amp. you can not hook up more than two speakers to that amp.. it's only a two channel amp.

the subwoofer has it's own amp.. so just connect it from the back of the avr's subwoofer output. to your subwoofer via RCA cable.

cfrizz

Pay absolutely NO attention to how Polk recommends you to hook up your sub. They make it more complicated than it has to be.

One cable from sub into the sub rca connector in the receiver & you're done!

obieone

cfrizz wrote: »

Pay absolutely NO attention to how Polk recommends you to hook up your sub. They make it more complicated than it has to be.

Excuse me, but isn't that a rather 'SNOBBISH' statement. Some of us don't have $50k rigs. Polks wiring recommendations are aimed at the broadest of financial spectrums. Not just you "Blue Bloods"!

cfrizz

No Obieone, it is not a snobbish statement. It is a simplicity statement.

Setting up a HT system is complicated enough without adding even more wires to it. Every receiver & every sub now has a one cable solution to get great bass.

I just don't see a need for the complicated method that Polk recommends. As for it being more economical to doing it that way, I have no idea if it is or not.

I'm certainly not a "blue blood" with a 50k setup. I like the best that I can afford at the time that will last me for decades!

When I make recommendations to newbies I try to put it in plain english & easy terms that everyone can understand. I leave the snobbery to the 2 channel, tube, & vinyl, geeks that reside here!

tonyb

Blue Bloods???

Obviously you don't know Cathy.
Here's a tip.......buy some kneepads.

cfrizz

TONY! :eek: ROTFLMAO!!!

I'm not that bad. I always greet newbies with a hearty "Welcome to Club Polk" & try to be helpful & answer questions that I know the answers to.

I only defend if attacked, but have no use for rude, disrespectful, think they know it alls!
And will stand up for friends if I think someone is taking an unnecessary swing at them. Or protect some hapless newbie that got on the wrong side of some crotchety old timer!;):D

tonyb

.......and thats why we love ya Cathy.....Merry Christmas!!!!

cfrizz

Merry Christmas to you & yours as well Tony!

Erik Tracy

cfrizz wrote: »

Pay absolutely NO attention to how Polk recommends you to hook up your sub. They make it more complicated than it has to be.

One cable from sub into the sub rca connector in the receiver & you're done!

The only problem with this is if your AVR supports some sort of 'direct' stereo mode which bypasses/disables all DSP effects and makes your AVR more like an old fashioned audiophile setup for 2-channel only listening.

In this mode, there will be NO output to your powered sub. I confirmed this with my new Yamaha RX-V1800 AVR by first setting up the sub with the 'standard' connection on the back of the AVR using the sub RCA output to the LFE RCA input on the back of my Polk PSW303.

Sound was very good when listening to 5.1 Surround: DVD movies, DSP effects like "Theater", "Classical", etc.

But when I went to Yamaha's "Pure Direct" mode for listening to LPs or CDs without all the fancy DSP effects, I got NO sound from the sub!!

I changed the setup today and disconnected the sub from the RCA output on the back of the AVR and went with the "Polk Way" of parallel speaker runs from the back of the AVR to the sub and the Main L/R front speakers.

This is WAY better as now I get full control again of the sub crossover and level in "Pure Direct" and still get LFE effects for 5.1 Surround because I've set the AVR to "Large" on the speakers and "Front" only on the speakers so that all the LFE effects and low bass signals to my RTI4s.

Extra work...yeah...the biggest pain was getting two sets of speaker wires into the speaker terminal connections on the back of the AVR.

But after that - I get SWEET 2-channel stereo with the sub and all the cool effects of 5.1 LFE.

YMMV - obviously....

Erik

cfrizz

I always have my sub playing when in Direct mode. All speakers set to small & bypassed at 80.

Welcome to Club Polk Erik!

McLoki

Erik - one thing to keep in mind when hooking up the sub the "Polk way". The sub does not have a high pass filter built into it, only a low pass for the sub. What this means is that the front speakers are getting a full range signal and the sub is getting whatever signal is below the crossover setting used on the back of the subwoofer. (It would be similar to in some AVR's running the "Enhanced bass" feature that sends signals below 80hz to the sub while sending a full range signal to the front speakers.) Also there is no "offloading" of power needed for bass to the subwoofer. Since a full range signal is sent to the speakers, the amp has to reproduce the entire frequency range (including the bass that uses the most energy) and the sub just doubles the effort (by reproducing the bass again for the subwoofer).

I agree with Cathy - for the vast majority of situations where your front speakers can play at least down to 100hz or so, using a single RCA cable from the LFE out on the AVR to the LFE in on the sub will yeild the best sound. Every system and room is differnt though and if you have tried both ways and prefer the sound hooked up the "Polk Way" that is certainly the way you should hook up your system.

I really do not understand the $50,000 rig comment at all. If you want a cheap sub cable - here is a 25' one for about $6.00. Good luck finding 100' of speaker cable for that price. (two runs of 25' from AVR to sub, and two more runs of 25' from sub to speakers) Not only is using an RCA cable the simpler and often times better sounding route to hooking up a sub, it is one of the cheaper ways to hook it up as well.

Michael.

BTW - Lest I be considered a grouch, Welcome to club Polk and Merry Christmas.

tcrossma

The "polk way" can be useful in the cases where the AVR doesn't have a sub pre-out or when the AVR has "modes" that don't output to the sub. But I tend to agree with Cathy that it's rare these days that hooking it up that way is necessary.

My Yamaha RX-V2500 also has a "pure direct" mode and in that mode no output is sent to the sub. If you need to run in pure direct and your fronts can't handle typical music bass it might be best to use the "polk way".

My sub doesn't even have speaker-level inputs so it's a moot point for me. If I did have them I still would probably not go that route and instead let the AVR handle the crossover.

Just my 2 cents.

Erik Tracy

While admittedly not running a set of 'high end' towers, I just have the modest RTI4s - yet with the meager experimentation that I've done with my mid-size family room, the RTI4s when set to "Large" do an admirable job of handling full range audio content.

Hence, for me, I find using the "Polk Way" allows me the luxury of using the "Pure Direct" mode with the sub.

I tend to favor the minimalist philosophy of old school 2 channel listening when the mood strikes my fancy, yet I still want the "wow" factor when indulging in the DVD movie surround experience.

In no way am I saying one way is better than another - only that there are trade offs that each person should consider what is 'best' for them depending on what their listening preference is.

I have found mine and am quite happy.

Cheers,
Erik

obieone

Sorry for the attack, but please allow me to explain: The way your response was structured, it did not come across as advice but as an order and dismissive.
The way I interpreted the posting was:"Don't listen to Polk, do it my way, because I don't have time for you." I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but you never EXPLAINED your position, like Polk does in their F.A.Q. section.
Sorry again for the misunderstanding, but the response 'appeared' rude.

CAvolleyballguy

Thank you for the suggestions. I guess the simple explanation is that if the sub gets signal when in stereo modes RCA pre out works and is easiest. If the system has a mode that does not output LFE in stereo then speaker wire does it, if you need or want the base from the sub...
And if you have kickin towers with good amp then sub for stereo is probably not needed (or recommended??)

Sound about right?

cfrizz

No problem. However, I did explain by saying "They make it more complicated than it has to be."

And if you have a current receiver & sub the one cable solution is right there in front of you.

obieone wrote: »

Sorry for the attack, but please allow me to explain: The way your response was structured, it did not come across as advice but as an order and dismissive.
The way I interpreted the posting was:"Don't listen to Polk, do it my way, because I don't have time for you." I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but you never EXPLAINED your position, like Polk does in their F.A.Q. section.
Sorry again for the misunderstanding, but the response 'appeared' rude.

Fatwalnut

I have the Yamaha RX-v2500.
I have my sub hooked up only to the sub pre-out of the Yamaha receiver.
To get your sub to run while listening to any source, you need to go into,
Manual Set Up, "find"
Basic Menu, "find"
Speaker Set, "find"
Bass Out, set it for "BOTH" speakers.
Now you sub will run with all your sources, but still not Pure Direct.
Just set the frequency adjust on you receiver to bypass mode. This will run the receiver "flat".
Hope this is what you are looking for. If not, then I hope it helps someone else. Take care

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk Fatwalnut!

seeclear

CAvolleyballguy wrote: »

#2. If I want to power my fronts with an external amp...the amp does not have speaker wire input, so I can not use the polk method. I have to run pre out to the adcoms, but I can still run speaker wire from avr left and right to the sub, or just go with the LFE if I can control the avr and make sure it is sending out LFE for cds and other non multichannel settings. etc..
Let me know if I have #2 right.

Couldn't he still wire it the "Polk Way", just from the speaker terminals on the amp instead of from the AVR? Set the sub to "NO" in the AVR and the fronts to "LARGE"?

Fatwalnut

Thanks for the greet

rskarvan

cfrizz wrote: »

Pay absolutely NO attention to how Polk recommends you to hook up your sub. They make it more complicated than it has to be.

One cable from sub into the sub rca connector in the receiver & you're done!

I was in this camp for long time.... then, I tried hooking up my PSW650 the way that Polk recommends and my subwoofer, finally, began to SOUND GOOD!!!

The LFE output from the receiver just didn't sound very good. I like it much better now.

Erik Tracy

seeclear wrote: »

Couldn't he still wire it the "Polk Way", just from the speaker terminals on the amp instead of from the AVR? Set the sub to "NO" in the AVR and the fronts to "LARGE"?

I see no reason why this would not work - should be equivalent to doing the same thing directly from the back of the AVR L/R front speaker outputs.

This is something I'd also like to get an answer to as well...can you use BOTH L/R front preouts AND L/R front speaker outs on an AVR *at the same time*?

The advantage to this is one of connection - in that it is harder, for me at least, to get two sets of speaker wires into a single connection post.

But here is another question....

When connecting up a sub the "Polk Way" via parallel connections from the back of your amp/receiver/avr, doesn't this present a different impedance to the amp/receiver/avr?

Thanks,
Erik

Erik Tracy

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I see no reason why this would not work - should be equivalent to doing the same thing directly from the back of the AVR L/R front speaker outputs.

This is something I'd also like to get an answer to as well...can you use BOTH L/R front preouts AND L/R front speaker outs on an AVR *at the same time*?

The advantage to this is one of connection - in that it is harder, for me at least, to get two sets of speaker wires into a single connection post.

But here is another question....

When connecting up a sub the "Polk Way" via parallel connections from the back of your amp/receiver/avr, doesn't this present a different impedance to the amp/receiver/avr?

Thanks,
Erik

Never mind...I checked the manual for my AVR - it says NOT to connect anything to its speaker terminals if you are using the preouts to an external amp.

seeclear

Erik Tracy wrote: »

The advantage to this is one of connection - in that it is harder, for me at least, to get two sets of speaker wires into a single connection post.

But here is another question....

When connecting up a sub the "Polk Way" via parallel connections from the back of your amp/receiver/avr, doesn't this present a different impedance to the amp/receiver/avr?

Thanks,
Erik

Now I am really confused (altho some might say that is my normal state). Why would you need to get two sets of wires into a single post? I thought the polk way was to connect AVR fronts to 'speaker in' on the sub, then 'speaker out' on the sub to the fronts. Where is a double set of wires in that setup?

Erik, are you saying you run two sets of wires from the AVR fronts, one to the sub and another set to the fronts? I would think that would indeed create impedance issues for the amp, as well as crossover problems. I thought by running the fronts through the sub, the lower frequencies were filtered out so that the fronts didn't have to try and reproduce the low end. How would that work if the fronts are wired in parallel with the sub?

Man, I thought I had this at least rudimentarily figured out, but this has got me thinking again.

Kex

I believe that if you want to get the full effect of the dedicated 0.1 LFE channel from Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 sources, you must use the subwoofer LFE connection using an appropriate cable, not the speaker wire solution. The special effects should be much more impressive (it's more than managing a simple frequency crossover point).

Erik Tracy

Kex wrote: »

I believe that if you want to get the full effect of the dedicated 0.1 LFE channel from Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 sources, you must use the subwoofer LFE connection using an appropriate cable, not the speaker wire solution. The special effects should be much more impressive (it's more than managing a simple frequency crossover point).

Not entirely true.

If you have NO subwoofer, you can get the equivalent of LFE effects by setting your AVR to have LARGE Front speakers and NO sub. That way ALL bass AND LFE effects get sent to the front speakers.

Erik Tracy

seeclear wrote: »

Now I am really confused (altho some might say that is my normal state). Why would you need to get two sets of wires into a single post? I thought the polk way was to connect AVR fronts to 'speaker in' on the sub, then 'speaker out' on the sub to the fronts. Where is a double set of wires in that setup?

Erik, are you saying you run two sets of wires from the AVR fronts, one to the sub and another set to the fronts? I would think that would indeed create impedance issues for the amp, as well as crossover problems. I thought by running the fronts through the sub, the lower frequencies were filtered out so that the fronts didn't have to try and reproduce the low end. How would that work if the fronts are wired in parallel with the sub?

Man, I thought I had this at least rudimentarily figured out, but this has got me thinking again.

In my PSW303 Manual, Polk has several diagrams for connecting subs up.

Figure 7 describes a parallel connection which is what I have now to my AVR. The reason is that I had a custom HT installation done and the in wall speaker wires for the fronts will not reach the sub where I have it now - so that prevents me from running a single set of wires from the AVR L/R front speaker terminals to the sub and then to the L/R fronts.

Even if you do wire it this way, I think electrically this is 'equivalent' to parallel connections to the fronts and the sub.

You could be right about the impedance delta, though.

I'd like to hear from Polk on this one.

But - so far, it works, I get full bass and 5.1 LFE effects, I can use the PSW303 crossover adjustment and I can set my AVR to its "Pure Direct" mode and still get bass from the sub - whereas if I used the LFE/RCA out on the AVR, I get NO bass from the sub when using the "Pure Direct" mode for 2-channel listening that bypasses the DSP effects.

Is the "Polk Way" the ONLY way to hook up and manage a sub, is it "better"? No - all I'm saying is that folks need to decide for themselves and figure out what works for them.

If all you want to do is plug and play and enjoy your HT setup - that's cool too.

I'm a 'tweaker' - yes I'll admit it. So I've been fiddling with my setup and this is what I like best.

Bottom line - if you like it - then don't worry about it.

Cheers,
Erik

seeclear

Erik Tracy wrote: »

In my PSW303 Manual, Polk has several diagrams for connecting subs up.

Figure 7 describes a parallel connection which is what I have now to my AVR. Cheers,
Erik

Interesting, I downloaded the manual you mention above, and it shows (fig. 7) wires in parallel to the fronts and to the speaker level OUTPUT of the sub. Is it just too late, or should it go to the speaker level INPUTs?

Confusion level rising!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/manuals/home/PSW303_404_505_Manual.pdf

Erik Tracy

seeclear wrote: »

Interesting, I downloaded the manual you mention above, and it shows (fig. 7) wires in parallel to the fronts and to the speaker level OUTPUT of the sub. Is it just too late, or should it go to the speaker level INPUTs?

Confusion level rising!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/manuals/home/PSW303_404_505_Manual.pdf

I think that is probably an error - should be to speaker level INPUTS - that is how I have my PSW303 hooked up now.

So far no smoke - just sound!

Erik