New silk dome tweeter too loud?

LifeNMusic

heiney9 wrote: »

I don't agree when you are at the extremes. A cookie is a cookie, but a Mrs. Field's cookie is certainly different than a Toll House cookie. Many caps have a proprietary "formula" (for lack of a better word) or build process that can make one sound better (different) from another.

Sonic Caps certainly sound better than Solens. But Daytons might sound very similar to Solens, etc.........

Different caps sound.............well different so a cap is not a cap.

To some the difference isn't important and if that's the case, fine. But it doesn't mean there aren't differences and as always you need to evaluate your project as a whole and determine if the extra cost for better caps is warranted.

When I did my Monitor 5B's Sonic Caps were just too expensive for my use. For the 1C's that wasn't the case. (even though my 1C's were already modded when I bought them, I still would have chosen the Sonic Caps in that application.)

H9

Well I knew my comment will start off some discussion on the CAP topic:-) My thought's based on this: what's caps built for? Regardless what material or technique is used, they are built for one purpose: Capacitance. That's the basic idea behind all electric design. CAPs are not cookies. Cookies are different as there is not really a single measurement for their quality. But IF you can find a measure that defines the taste of a cookie, the two cookies, regardless what factory made it, should tasted exactly the same as long as they measure the same.

Now because we don't live in a perfect world, a capacitor has ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance), ESL (Equivalent Series Inductance), Tolerance (+- X% possible error or change of its capacitance during operation), operating temperature, and lastly the working voltage. Unless there is something that modern science has yet to discover, which will render all our electric designs invalid, I find the material and technology behind a capacitor irrelevant. (Added note: as long as they measure the same, different material will have different measurement, for example, Metallized Polypropylene cap measures better than some of the older designs).

So when I pick a capacitor I will pick one that have the lowest ESR and ESL, smallest tolerance, HIGHEST working voltage. ESR, ESL generally speaking should be very low in Metallized Polypropylene though.

Sorry, I don’t see why people love their caps so much if their capacitor has a 200 VDC on it. Don't get me wrong, it'd work under normal condition but nothing special to boast about. Not that I think it's neccessary, but some high quality speakers use 800-1200VDC capacitor to ensure their operation during extreme conditions. Well, that you can boast and say my capacitor will survive if you connect it to AC directly:-)

A cap is a cap, it's not a cookie!

Face

Yes, just as a cable is a cable. :rolleyes:

BaggedLancer

A face is a face, a hand is a hand....they are all the same.

LifeNMusic

Face wrote: »

Yes, just as a cable is a cable. :rolleyes:

I am hoping I am not starting off another heated discussion ( or fight) on this :-) But yeah, a cable is a cable. Science is science not some fancy pseudo science, pseudo cult terminologies. Save money for speakers, preamps, amps, players and your content! - Just my opinion, but be warned you’ll find a hard time convincing me otherwise. Unless you got a paper published by IEEE, which I doubt, highly.

heiney9

I'm not getting fully in the debate this time, but I have to ask.........what about your ears? Do you not hear any audible differences between cables or caps? Or are you one that dismisses what you hear because it can't be printed in black and white. I'm not picking a fight, I am really curious how you've deduced that no electrical component can make a difference sans it being measured to have lower ESR, etc., blah, blah, blah.

Makes one wonder why high end companies even bother with high quality parts. If they all sound the same every product should be homogeneous and there would be very little competition.

Anyway I've spent a lot of time in the past discussing this deader than dead horse so I'm out of this one as I know what I hear and what I prefer.

H9

LifeNMusic

heiney9 wrote: »

I'm not getting fully in the debate this time, but I have to ask.........what about your ears? Do you not hear any audible differences between cables or caps? Or are you one that dismisses what you hear because it can't be printed in black and white. I'm not picking a fight, I am really curious how you've deduced that no electrical component can make a difference sans it being measured to have lower ESR, etc., blah, blah, blah.

Makes one wonder why high end companies even bother with high quality parts. If they all sound the same every product should be homogeneous and there would be very little competition.

Anyway I've spent a lot of time in the past discussing this deader than dead horse so I'm out of this one as I know what I hear and what I prefer.

H9

Well your ears are your ears and my ears are mine. I can't hear difference between some hyped cables against some quality but reasonable cables. As far as I know some higher priced cables don't measure very well and will introduce differences in sound but I don't pay for those cables so can't say more on this.

It's about money! You will find out in high end market there is huge margin in there. Now quite some high end companies actually put quality components and good design into their product and that will cost money. Bryston put 20 yr warranty on their product, - it cost money to do. Same with Mcintosh, their product has been known for reliability and good engineering. Roger Russell said truth on his website and I trust a guy who devoted his whole life to audio science.

There are differences in different gears, BTW. THD, SN ratio, power rating, features and reliability are the among things that, IMHO, should be competed for. A $300 sony receiver can't compete against a bryston, mcintosh, or even a SONY ES amp, why? Read the fine prints on power ratings and THD.

I agree this topic has been brought up too many times and i don't intend to get involved again either.
So draw your own conclusions, it's your ears, your money and your time! Just don't try to convince my ears.

Face

LifeNMusic

Face wrote: »

Thanks for that pic. I know, the horse should be dead already!

danger boy

Face wrote: »

those smileys are sadistic

jakelm

Face wrote: »

Is that first smiley eating the face of that horse...YYYYUUUUKKKKKKK




....but so cool..


One question then we can drop it. I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

How can we NOT measure something that CAN be heard?

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmm...

F1nut

Blah, blah, Roger Russell is deaf, blah, blah, all sounds the same, blah, blah, same old EE BS, blah, blah and blah.

Here's a hint, no one is trying to convince you. Why are you trying to convince anybody?

Read the fine prints on power ratings and THD.

Not even close to the answer.

BottomFeeder

Anyone here have the Polk RTA12's & replace the tweeters w/the RD0's?

I trust the overwhelming responses of those who say the new tweeters sound better, but I've never been put off by the SL2000's in my RTA's. So, has anyone here made the replacement in their RTA12's?

What difference did you hear?

StevieB

I never really noticed the harsh sound in my 2B's, but with my recently acquired 1C's, some music is difficult to listen to. I'm absolutely clueless when it comes to caps and resistors so I have to rely on what I hear. I look forward to replacing the 2000's with the RDO's. And by the way, great forum!!

ShinAce

Why do studies for new drugs use control groups? It's because even someone that is not being given a new product can think there is a difference at hand.

Don't get me wrong, a nice mylar cap should perform and sound better than electrolytic. A well designed and built cable can outperform a bad one. The problem is that very soon, we are getting minuscule difference in sound for considerable investment. A difference, is that necessarily an improvement?

I'll say it again though, if you like it, stick with it.

LifeNMusic

F1nut wrote: »

Blah, blah, Roger Russell is deaf, blah, blah, all sounds the same, blah, blah, same old EE BS, blah, blah and blah.

Here's a hint, no one is trying to convince you. Why are you trying to convince anybody?



Not even close to the answer.

Now that's not nice, calling an old folk like Roger Russell deaf? A little politeness may help you better present your ideas...

I am out on this one.

Face

F1, thanks for the insight.

I can now add something else to my list of non-believers.

Either their system isn't up to snuff.
They don't want to spend the money.
Or maybe, they're Hearing Impaired.