New silk dome tweeter too loud?

jakelm

More efficient. because the xover was not built for the RDO's. My bet is a larger resistor is needed for the tweeter. 1 or 1.5ohm increase should do the trick.

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

More efficient. because the xover was not built for the RDO's. My bet is a larger resistor is needed for the tweeter. 1 or 1.5ohm increase should do the trick.

+1 on this
I would order 1.5, and 3 increase over stock to bring out the mids, and bass.

F1nut

Polk went to great lengths to make the replacement tweeters better than and yet still match the crossovers. I noticed you said yours are BDOxxx, which is the part number for the SL2500 and is not the RDOxxx. Perhaps, that is something you should to look into.

As for Kasspacitor, he was previously banned and was rightfully, banned again.

LifeNMusic

F1nut wrote: »

Polk went to great lengths to make the replacement tweeters better than and yet still match the crossovers. I noticed you said yours are BDOxxx, which is the part number for the SL2500 and is not the RDOxxx. Perhaps, that is something you should to look into.

As for Kasspacitor, he was previously banned and was rightfully, banned again.

F1,
When I spoke to the Polk customer service (Helen),she told me that although they came with BDO on them, they are, actually, same as RDO...

Although I don't know what that guy did, I will make sure I don't do anything stupid ... :-)

Jakelm and Ben,
Thanks for the tip. Now I really have to dig out my soldering gun somewhere...

Ben, I saw your speakers another thread. What the heck are those freaking big things? :-)

ben62670

LifeNMusic wrote: »

F1,
When I spoke to the Polk customer service (Helen),she told me that although they came with BDO on them, they are, actually, same as RDO...

Jakelm and Ben,
Thanks for the tip. Now I really have to dig out my soldering gun somewhere...

Ben, I saw your speakers another thread. What the heck are those freaking big things? :-)

I like to go to extremes;)
On a serious note I just love even at lower volumes how the air is energized even with acoustical guitar notes. You can feel the music again even at lower levels. The large vertical plane of drivers really sets a nice sound stage, and did I mention I maxed out my 126db Rat Shack meter:D

LifeNMusic

ben62670 wrote: »

I like to go to extremes;)
On a serious note I just love even at lower volumes how the air is energized even with acoustical guitar notes. You can feel the music again even at lower levels. The large vertical plane of drivers really sets a nice sound stage, and did I mention I maxed out my 126db Rat Shack meter:D

Every SDA fan who has problem convincing their significant other should have a picture of these at hand. 'see, mine are only 1/3 (or 1/4) of the size of these...'

ben62670

LifeNMusic wrote: »

Every SDA fan who has problem convincing their significant other should have a picture of these at hand. 'see, mine are only 1/3 (or 1/4) of the size of these...'

Mine left. I replaced her with these. I can shut these off:)

jakelm

F1nut wrote: »

As for Kasspacitor, he was previously banned and was rightfully, banned again.

I hate missing banathons...

I thought I saw him before...

heiney9

jakelm wrote: »

More efficient. because the xover was not built for the RDO's. My bet is a larger resistor is needed for the tweeter. 1 or 1.5ohm increase should do the trick.

The RD0194-1 was designed specifically to replace the sl2000 in all Polk models. Keep in mind the SDA's with sl2000's sound a bit different than monitors with sl2000's. The later gen SDA's seemed to have a bit more laid back sound concerning the sl2000 than the Monitor series.

LifeNMusic- If you haven't refreshed the X-over (can't remember if you did) perhaps doing that will give you the cohesion between drivers you desire. I tried it the opposite way and did the X-over while the sl2000 was still in place and that was unacceptable. Once I put the RD0's in the mix, it transformed the speaker.

H9

heiney9

jakelm wrote: »

I hate missing banathons...

I thought I saw him before...

Kapacitor turned out to be Special K, I believe.

jakelm

heiney9 wrote: »

Kapacitor turned out to be Special K, I believe.

No freekin way...lol....

Give him an "E" for effort.

I read his post, I saw nothing that would have gotten him banned, so I thought there must be a reason...





but anyways..... I would pull the xover out and make sure that everything is to spec. You never know with these old speakers, they could have been tampered with. Just make sure the vules of the resistors and caps match up.

F1nut

LifeNMusic wrote: »

F1,
When I spoke to the Polk customer service (Helen),she told me that although they came with BDO on them, they are, actually, same as RDO...

Well, she certainly knows what is what, but I'm still curious as to why the different ID. Do yours actually have a label on them? If so, can you post a pic?

LifeNMusic

F1nut wrote: »

Well, she certainly knows what is what, but I'm still curious as to why the different ID. Do yours actually have a label on them? If so, can you post a pic?

I can only remember some number at the back of them. Don't remember seeing any labels on them (unlike the originals that even have SDA 1c written on). I don't think I am going to take them out again and take pictures anytime soon, but if I get a chance, I might... I trust she knows what she is doing as she seems to have a good reputation around here.
To me, every speaker (especially when use different material) has its own characteristics and almost impossible to do a prefect match to another.
I will try the tweak suggested by Jakelm and Ben down the road and report back. That may be a long while down the road though :-)

LifeNMusic

ben62670 wrote: »

Mine left. I replaced her with these. I can shut these off:)

I showed that picture to my wife. And I was surprised to find out that she actually LIKED those monsters a lot. Even said she would not mind if I can get my hands on a pair of those. Now that's tempting... I don't think I will be able to find room ( already too many speakers) anytime soon though.

Just curious, a little background info on those monsters? Why another infinity sub in the middle and if I am not mistaken, another Cylinder sub on the left when you already have lots of bass?

LifeNMusic

heiney9 wrote: »

The RD0194-1 was designed specifically to replace the sl2000 in all Polk models. Keep in mind the SDA's with sl2000's sound a bit different than monitors with sl2000's. The later gen SDA's seemed to have a bit more laid back sound concerning the sl2000 than the Monitor series.

LifeNMusic- If you haven't refreshed the X-over (can't remember if you did) perhaps doing that will give you the cohesion between drivers you desire. I tried it the opposite way and did the X-over while the sl2000 was still in place and that was unacceptable. Once I put the RD0's in the mix, it transformed the speaker.

H9

heiney9, I have not done that X-over yet. Cost (and effort) is a little too much to me. A 'good' refresh will set me back another 300-400 on top of the tweeter upgrade. Not sure it's worth it or not. Anyone done refresh without those fancy caps? I am not a big believer of 'audiophile' caps yet, but i may be wrong...

heiney9

LifeNMusic wrote: »

heiney9, I have not done that X-over yet. Cost (and effort) is a little too much to me. A 'good' refresh will set me back another 300-400 on top of the tweeter upgrade. Not sure it's worth it or not. Anyone done refresh without those fancy caps? I am not a big believer of 'audiophile' caps yet, but i may be wrong...

You don't have to use "fancy" caps to realize a major difference. Sonic Cap is about the best and most expensive. I used Solen's in my Monitor 5B's because I just didn't want to have that kind of money wrapped up in a small speaker for 2ndary use. My 1C's do have Sonic Caps.

Some have gotten good results with Clarity Caps, Bennic Caps, Dayton Caps and Solen Caps. I still feel Sonic Caps are the best but these others will get you 85-90% there, and cost quite a bit less.

You will notice a big improvement by refreshing the caps and resistors and get even better performance from the RD0's. Believe me, I had the same reservations as you do and I drug my feet for a long time, but when I finally gave in it was certainly worth it. I actually let a very nice pair of RTA-11T's go because I was unhappy with them. If I had done the RD0's and x-over refresh I'd probably still have them, but then I wouldn't have my 1C's

If you haven't already, search the archives as there are lots of threads on this subject and you'll see most if not all people realized a huge improvement.

To get you started here's my link to my upgrade of my 5B's

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51420&highlight=5b%2A

H9

jakelm

LifeNMusic wrote: »

A 'good' refresh will set me back another 300-400 on top of the tweeter upgrade. ...

:eek:WOW!!!:eek:... Thats one hell of a xover refresh.

A new refresh might cost you , maybe $100



...sorry..carry on...

heiney9

jakelm wrote: »

:eek:WOW!!!:eek:... Thats one hell of a xover refresh.

A new refresh might cost you , maybe $100



...sorry..carry on...

Not on 1C's if you use Sonic Caps. I spent $55 on Solen caps and Mills resistor's for my 5B's and the 1C's have many more parts.

Using Sonic caps in the 1C's it's probably about $250-300. I haven't taken the time to price them recently, but you won't get by for less than about $250.

jakelm

heiney9 wrote: »

Not on 1C's if you use Sonic Caps. I spent $55 on Solen caps and Mills resistor's for my 5B's and the 1C's have many more parts.

That was for both speakers, right?

Using Sonic caps in the 1C's it's probably about $250-300. I haven't taken the time to price them recently, but you won't get by for less than about $250.

But Sonic caps are not a must, Ben just did a great test using Daytons and Solens. Which cost alot less than Sonic. I think a good fresh, with good parts, will cost alot less than that.

I did my 7's, both speakers refreshed with Solens and mills, might have set me back, ~$50. So multiply that times 2-3, thats between $100 and $150.

He doesnt have to go with Sonics for every cap either. Just the ones in series with the highs.

jakelm

4 caps and 3 resistors. 8 components.

Mills resistors are $3.50 x 3 = 10.50
The Solens
4.4uF = 3.45
12uF = 6.69
20uF = 8.53
40Uf = 15.47
Total = 73.88 for everything.

times 2 = 147.76 plus shipping.

Yes if he goes Sonic, it will be in the price range of $200-$250. But Sonic is not necesarry.

heiney9

jakelm wrote: »

That was for both speakers, right?




But Sonic caps are not a must, Ben just did a great test using Daytons and Solens. Which cost alot less than Sonic. I think a good fresh, with good parts, will cost alot less than that.

I did my 7's, both speakers refreshed with Solens and mills, might have set me back, ~$50. So multiply that times 2-3, thats between $100 and $150.

He doesnt have to go with Sonics for every cap either. Just the ones in series with the highs.

Correct and correct. I was speaking about Sonic Caps and I assumed he was too given the price he quoted. Using other caps will reduce the cost.

LifeNMusic

jakelm wrote: »

4 caps and 3 resistors. 8 components.

Mills resistors are $3.50 x 3 = 10.50
The Solens
4.4uF = 3.45
12uF = 6.69
20uF = 8.53
40Uf = 15.47
Total = 73.88 for everything.

times 2 = 147.76 plus shipping.

Yes if he goes Sonic, it will be in the price range of $200-$250. But Sonic is not necesarry.

Thanks for putting the numbers together, jakelm. Now that's a number that I like a lot better. What website you get them from? I can't find them on partsexpress (no 4.4 or 40)...

jakelm

LifeNMusic wrote: »

Thanks for putting the numbers together, jakelm. Now that's a number that I like a lot better. What website you get them from? I can't find them on partsexpress (no 4.4 or 40)...

Parts Express

4.3uF will do fine


As for the 40uF

39uF will do fine also

The Daytons or the Solens are great caps.

I would look into Sonic for the tweeter. It seems to give great results (from what I've heard) for the high Fr's.

LifeNMusic

Curious, anyone has the ESR and ESL ratings for the Caps you used?

LifeNMusic

I did some research on this and here is what I come up with. Any inputs are welcome.

1. Crossover network is worth upgrading in the sense of, well, keeping the specs right. The caps will deteriorate over time, especially after 20 years. Their specs aren’t that good to begin with.

2. I saw a lot of people arguing with each other on this board about which cap is better and which is worse. To me, while I can see there is a lot of fun doing this :-), a cap is a cap. It limits signal frequency sent to the tweeter and that’s basically it.

3. Different cap does have different ESR (as a resistor, ESL is almost negligible ) value, and may lead to different result. The thing is, though, unless the cap is designed with high ESR or they are defective, there should not be too much of difference unless there is difference in specs. ( +-2% vs. 5% or 10-20%. 200VDC vs. 630 VDC.). If a cap is designed with higher ESR, it would sound different, because it reduces the signal and will sound ‘less bright’. Now I don’t have the specs on all the caps (none of the vendor website has this info), so I can’t say which one is better. Supposedly Metallized Polypropylene (Solen, not sure about soniccap) should have very low ESR (0.0X ohm or even less) compared to the old original caps (may be in the 1ohm domain, but don’t quote me on this). It should work better in spec but may sound ‘brighter’ in reality, adding some resistor should fix this.

In conclusion, I can see I may need some quality cap for doing the crossover refresh. Any quality Metallized Polypropylene with good specs ( low ESR, <5%, >400 VDC) will do. I don’t see why I would need soniccaps just based on the specs.

Also in my case, since my RDO tweeters seem be more efficient than the originals, I will probably have to add 2 ohm or so to the tweeter to tame it a little.

Joe08867

I think the Cap argument is more for the build quality. Yes almost any new quality cap will do but the variations between caps from the same manufacturer can be quite large cap to cap, Just like tubes from different manufacturers. That is why people use Sonicaps, Solens and others in the same vane. The variations are minimal.

ESR is important to me. 5% is about as far as I would go. If two caps are at the opposite end it can be a 10% variation. I should have gone with the Dayton 1% ESR.

heiney9

LifeNMusic wrote: »

2. I saw a lot of people arguing with each other on this board about which cap is better and which is worse. To me, while I can see there is a lot of fun doing this :-), a cap is a cap. It limits signal frequency sent to the tweeter and that’s basically it.

I don't agree when you are at the extremes. A cookie is a cookie, but a Mrs. Field's cookie is certainly different than a Toll House cookie. Many caps have a proprietary "formula" (for lack of a better word) or build process that can make one sound better (different) from another.

Sonic Caps certainly sound better than Solens. But Daytons might sound very similar to Solens, etc.........

Different caps sound.............well different so a cap is not a cap.

To some the difference isn't important and if that's the case, fine. But it doesn't mean there aren't differences and as always you need to evaluate your project as a whole and determine if the extra cost for better caps is warranted.

When I did my Monitor 5B's Sonic Caps were just too expensive for my use. For the 1C's that wasn't the case. (even though my 1C's were already modded when I bought them, I still would have chosen the Sonic Caps in that application.)

H9

jakelm

Caps and Cables and Controversy.....Oh My!!

heiney9

The three "C's" :eek:

Face

I can tell you this, breaking in Sonic Caps is more painful than breaking in Solens.