what to drive LC-series in-walls?

lmc7lmc7
lmc7lmc7 Posts: 8
edited December 2007 in Electronics
Any recommendations for either HT receiver or multi-channel amp for a 7.1 system with LCi-C center, LC60i LR front and surround, LC65i rear? Also installing IB sub, so bass extension and management from the receiver or amp are less critical.
Receiver would probably be midrange (like Onkyo 705): don't want to overspend on video capabilities as my projector is 720p and 1080i.
However, might be willing to pay extra for audio quality, both analog sources (especially SACD) and Blu-Ray movies to be added to collection. Looked through the thread on Outlaw 990; happy to entertain other suggestions.
Post edited by lmc7lmc7 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,312
    edited December 2007
    First off your inwalls are kinda tuff to drive. Usually I don't suggest it but Yamaha rxv2700 or 3800 or even the 1700 will do a great job and give you all the video abilities you need for now and later. The rxv661 is a bit light on power and I don't suggest going there. You need power and the higher end Yamahas get it done. I also think it's a much better choice over Onkyo or Intega for sound quality. Yamaha receivers are very dynamic with probably the best dynamics in receivers. They really jump at you when something happens.....

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • john22614
    john22614 Posts: 214
    edited December 2007
    I like the 990 with separate amp solution a lot.....but I really haven't had the chance to compare it to a good quality AVR....but I suspect dollar for dollar it is superior. One of the things I appreciate about my 990 is how good it sounds for music, either stereo or multi-channel in addition to HT.
    On the down side, the 990 is large, and when you pair it with a seven channel amp....just make sure you have the space with lots of breathing room. If you combine these electronics with the LSi quality drivers in your in walls, it should be a thing of beauty.
    B&W 804s mains
    B&W HTM4 center
    Polk PSW 1000 sub
    Outlaw 990 Pre Amp
    Anthem MCA 30 Amp
    Monitor Radius 180 surrounds
    Audiosource Stereo Amp for surrounds
    Denon 2910 Universal DVD/SACD Player
    Comcast DVR
    Pioneer Elite 42" Plasma 940 HD
    Harmony Universal Remote
    Blue Jeans interconnects and biwires
    Itunes Air Express
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • lmc7lmc7
    lmc7lmc7 Posts: 8
    edited December 2007
    mantis wrote: »
    ...Yamaha rxv2700 or 3800 or even the 1700 will do a great job ... Yamaha receivers are very dynamic with probably the best dynamics in receivers.
    Dan

    Thanks! I hadn't looked into Yamaha much, as their receiver line hasn't had a lot of airplay recently in the forums I've been browsing. The Audioholics.com review of the RX-V2700 is generally favorable (notwithstanding setup issues), and price is within spitting distance of the Onkyo 805.
    >> www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v2700-receiver-review
    mantis wrote: »
    First off your inwalls are kinda tuff to drive.
    Dan

    Are you saying the LCi's are hard to drive because of their low impedance (nominal 4 ohms) or because of the infinite-baffle effect of mounting them in the wall? I was going to use the Performance Enclosures (at least for front LR), but then didn't because of a room construction detail I hadn't realized early on.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • lmc7lmc7
    lmc7lmc7 Posts: 8
    edited December 2007
    john22614 wrote: »
    I like the 990 with separate amp solution ...
    On the down side, the 990 is large...

    As long as we're talking separates, any opinions on the Emotiva Reference Theater Series (MMC/IPS combo)? I assume the IPS-1 power amp isn't in the same league as your Anthem, but the folks over at AV123.com seem to like these units.
    Size shouldn't be an issue as I don't have a lot of A/V gear (yet), nor have selected a cabinet/rack system.
    john22614 wrote: »
    ... If you combine these electronics with the LSi quality drivers in your in walls, it should be a thing of beauty.

    - and a joy forever! (at least until next upgrade)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited December 2007
    Welcome to Club Polk!

    The LCi's are hard to drive because of the 4ohm load. You need at minimum 200wpc to get them to sing. Some have gone up higher & love them even more.

    Brands to look at Outlaw Audio, Rotel, Sunfire, Earthquake Cinenova Grande, Parasound.

    I'm not quite sold on Emotiva just yet, since there have been reports of poor customer service & quality control issues.

    If you afford to go from the start, go with a separate prepro/amp combo. It will sound better & ultimately save you money since you won't have to purchase a prepro later on down the line.:D
    lmc7lmc7 wrote: »
    Thanks! I hadn't looked into Yamaha much, as their receiver line hasn't had a lot of airplay recently in the forums I've been browsing. The Audioholics.com review of the RX-V2700 is generally favorable (notwithstanding setup issues), and price is within spitting distance of the Onkyo 805.
    >> www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v2700-receiver-review
    Are you saying the LCi's are hard to drive because of their low impedance (nominal 4 ohms) or because of the infinite-baffle effect of mounting them in the wall? I was going to use the Performance Enclosures (at least for front LR), but then didn't because of a room construction detail I hadn't realized early on.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited December 2007
    I'll add B&K to the list of amp brands look into, and i'd also vote for going the pre/pro and separate amp route. I wish I had from the beginning.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,312
    edited December 2007
    tcrossma wrote: »
    I'll add B&K to the list of amp brands look into, and i'd also vote for going the pre/pro and separate amp route. I wish I had from the beginning.

    This is all good advise but pre pro's suck right now. If your trying to do Blue and HD , they suck. It's a bad time to be buying right now unless you wanna use the 6 channel in or have both players decode the audio and run PCM.

    I'm not cool with it right now. Receivers like the Yamaha do it all and have enough power to drive the 4ohm load well. We do it all the time with great results. Not to mention the awesome dynamic range. For some reason or another Yamaha and Lc's work. Onkyo and polk anything do not. For me that is anyway, I don't care for it.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sbpolk
    sbpolk Posts: 644
    edited December 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Welcome to Club Polk!

    The LCi's are hard to drive because of the 4ohm load. You need at minimum 200wpc to get them to sing. Some have gone up higher & love them even more.

    Brands to look at Outlaw Audio, Rotel, Sunfire, Earthquake Cinenova Grande, Parasound.

    I'm not quite sold on Emotiva just yet, since there have been reports of poor customer service & quality control issues.

    If you afford to go from the start, go with a separate prepro/amp combo. It will sound better & ultimately save you money since you won't have to purchase a prepro later on down the line.:D

    Cathy, I think by and large customer service at Emotiva has been fantastic. There were issues with the LMC-1 that took a long time to resolve. Outlaw had a similar problem with their entry level pre/pro. Warranty support with Emotiva is absolutely fantastic, and the 5 year warranty is transfereable.

    I have had a LMC-1/LPA-1 combo, and now have the DMC-1/MPS-1 combo. The sound qualilty of these is unparalelled. If you listened to my 120lb 7 channel amp, you would probably be a fan too.

    That being said, I am selling my DMC-1. It is a Sunfire Theater Grand IV clone, and sounds wonderful. But the new HDMI audio stuff is a siren's song for me, and I may give up some audio quality for features. I am pondering using a Denon 3808ci for a pre, and keeping my MPS-1 for the heavy lifting.

    Forgot to say, I have LSi15s and LSiC on the front, with four LC65is for surround duty.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • john22614
    john22614 Posts: 214
    edited December 2007
    mantis makes a really good point.....if you want all the latest functionality, the 990 is out of date....if on the other hand if you're looking for great sonic quality and don't care about all the new stuff...then it can be an excellent choice. I'm content to view my tv via component and DVD via upscaled HDMI to the plasma with digital audio opticals to the 990, so it's not an issue for me. It's hard for me to imagine it sounding or looking any better than it does now....although, it must with Blu-ray, etc.
    B&W 804s mains
    B&W HTM4 center
    Polk PSW 1000 sub
    Outlaw 990 Pre Amp
    Anthem MCA 30 Amp
    Monitor Radius 180 surrounds
    Audiosource Stereo Amp for surrounds
    Denon 2910 Universal DVD/SACD Player
    Comcast DVR
    Pioneer Elite 42" Plasma 940 HD
    Harmony Universal Remote
    Blue Jeans interconnects and biwires
    Itunes Air Express
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • lmc7lmc7
    lmc7lmc7 Posts: 8
    edited December 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »

    The LCi's are hard to drive because of the 4ohm load. You need at minimum 200wpc to get them to sing. ...

    Well, the Audioholics.com review of the RX-V2700 (140 wpc nominal) measured 230W into 2ch of 4ohm.
    >> http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v2700-receiver-review/rx-v2700-measurements-and-analysis

    Even better ratio for the RX-V659 - though not for some older Yamaha models.
    This could explain mantis' and others' experience:
    mantis wrote: »
    ... For some reason or another Yamaha and Lc's work. ...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • lmc7lmc7
    lmc7lmc7 Posts: 8
    edited December 2007
    cfrizz wrote: »
    If you afford to go from the start, go with a separate prepro/amp combo. It will sound better & ultimately save you money since you won't have to purchase a prepro later on down the line.
    tcrossma wrote: »
    ... also vote for going the pre/pro and separate amp route. I wish I had from the beginning.
    mantis wrote: »
    ... pre pro's suck right now... It's a bad time to be buying right now unless you wanna use the 6 channel in or have both players decode the audio and run PCM.
    john22614 wrote: »
    ... if you want all the latest functionality, the 990 is out of date....if on the other hand if you're looking for great sonic quality and don't care about all the new stuff...then it can be an excellent choice.
    sbpolk wrote: »
    ... the new HDMI audio stuff is a siren's song for me, and I may give up some audio quality for features. I am pondering using a Denon 3808ci for a pre, and keeping my MPS-1 for the heavy lifting.

    Though I'm sorely tempted by the Emotiva Reference ($1550 for the MMC/IPS combo), it just seems like there's too much tumult, compromise, and obsolescence now in the separates category - and receivers as well. I'm leaning toward getting a midrange Yamaha receiver, then upgrading to a separate prepro/amp combo in a year or two after the dust settles. Hoping price deflation will still be on my side.

    Great discussion, thanks to all for your (divergent!) views.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter