Wire's too much or not enough

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Comments

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    Whatever Dan, I was just trying to help you out and try to help you understand why you get the reactions that you do. Not throw stones. Obviously, you either can't take constructive criticism or you could care less. Either way, I tried to help and I'm done with you.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by mantis

    r/w,
    show me exactly where I told you or any other member on this forum that they don't know what they are talking about.Show me.

    Gee, Wally, you're right. Obviously when you say things like

    "If you even had an idea about dynamic range and how each channel is effected by this you would talk out your butt hole.

    After you setup 1/100000's of the amount of theater's I have setup,talk to me..........."

    you're really praising other forum members' knowledge, opinions, and treating them with respect. No chest-thumping here, either.

    How could I have thought otherwise?
    As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
    How much you’ll pay for what you used to get for free
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,407
    edited November 2002
    Uhhhhhhh, Dan, I think that you will find that the slim tower design is purely cosmetic. If they sound better to you, obviously, that's fine but the slim cabinet design is a market driven thing.
    I'm gonna start here Troy,I know you said "you're done with me"But I'm gonna address what you said.I disagree with you on this point.I look at speakers different then you.You seem to get offended when I talk about the newer to me is better.I don't get offended when you say older is better.Why would I?Thats what you like.It's all good man.All of it.
    Again, I sense that you and your partner feel that if it wasn't built in the last 10 years (or less) than it certainly can't be worth listening to, which is simply not true
    Why do you say this?This was never said by Me(I'll allow liv4fam to speak for himself).All I said was...........
    The speaker comments and wires non the less are natural progression in the industry.Most if not all companies try to improve on there technology.The wide rattle box speaker design compared to the sleeker todays style tower design........in our opnion sound a hell of alot better.
    This is my opnion,not fact,nor any sort of attack on anyone with older speakers.My Uncle owns 2 pair(for 2 channel listening) of my older speakers.My SDA-2b's and my rt1000p's.Guess what????He loves the **** out of both pairs...he's digging the rt1000p's more, there new to him and he smiles when he listen's.Nothing wrong with that,he's happy,I'm happy my speakers go to a home that they will be loved like I onced loved them.Sorta like what you guys do, trading with each other speakers and gear,it's nice.
    As far as the RT/SDA/LSi comparison, that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. IMO, I think my RTA's, overall dust the RTi series, but we could make these comparisons all day.
    Dude,your pushing your weight around with your opnion,I think it's fine you feel this way.I disagree with it as I like Polk's newer speakers better.I feel my LSI15's are Polk's best sounding speakers of all time.The very best of the best.Nobody has to agree with me,hell you can think they suck,it's whoever's opnion.Remember that speakers are personal.If you liked the Lsi,Rt,RTi lines better then what you currently own,you would have them instead.I respect your opnion,I just wish you could respect mine for what it is,and not throw in my face that I'm an Installer and it means little.
    The plain fact of the matter is that you and your companion (although he has been far more civil of late) come off like JUST because you installers that you automatically know everything there is to know about audio and that the rest of us are blithering dolts who have no right to hold or express an opinion much less question yours. I say this not to be harsh, I say this because it may help explain (although this isn't the first time this has been said) why folks make the comments that they do.
    This is what you get out of My posts?I don't understand it.Dude,I don't say things like this.If I do, please point it out and I will address every single one.I'm sorry if I do sound this way to you.I try to post things like MY OPNION or MY FEELINGS etc.Not "listen to me I'm an Installer and what I say goes"........dude that's bull.If I sound that way,theres no intention behind that and I mean that.
    The fact of the matter is, just because you are installers means little.
    You say this alot.This is a personal attack on my living.You say it means little,why?It's experience,I like to share it, not beat my cheat with it as r/w put it.You feel the need to insult what I do.
    If anyone in here can benifit from my experience,I think it's a good thiing.I'm not always right nor claim to be.I'm learning just like everyone in here is.I never claimed to know it all,**** dude,I feel like a rookie sometimes.
    Whatever Dan, I offered a little constructive criticism, nothing more. Apparently it did no good.
    Then you reply with this.All I said is I disagree with you on the speaker thing,I'm not the be all end all like to think,and what I say is my opnion, not fact.
    Whatever Dan, I was just trying to help you out and try to help you understand why you get the reactions that you do. Not throw stones. Obviously, you either can't take constructive criticism or you could care less. Either way, I tried to help and I'm done with you.
    Now where down to this..........you done with me.Well I'm sorry you feel this way.I will say this.I respect your opnion,I wish you would respect mine.My job means alot to me.I feel blessed that I'm in the field.I only wish to help others,and try to learn more by doing it.I have learned a great deal in this forum and hope to continue learning.I don't have all the answers,I look to alot of you for them.The opnions on things are really nice.Even yours Troy,you look at things differently then I do,better or worse,I respect them.
    Dan

    I had my quote on.......I hope you can respect that.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by rlw

    Huh? I don't quite follow you here. What am I wanting to demo? Am I just being really dense, even for a guy that likes some high-end wire?

    rlw, in now way was my statement meant as a slam...

    when I said patient it was not regarding you in any way but referring to the topic and thats all. This is a very good topic which deserves my attention and I also enjoy learning and reading others experience.

    For me and me alone when I say demo I don't believe I can distinguish audio difference because of wire. I have a very untrained ear and I am not schooled or understand what goes into criticle listening. I know for a fact that I heard an improvement when I added a 200 Watt rms time 7 channels to my HT rig but for me to discern what is good or bad is very difficult. I know at the levels I listen there is no way in hell to clip or stress the amp but it seamed to add a clarity that I was not expecting. Wire on the other hand confuses the hell out of me.

    I have some big fat monster stuff on my Front L/R and bought it on the cheap, 50 bucks, but damn I could not hear the difference from my Rat Shack 12 guage with banana plugs. I swapped back and forth so many times my wife thought I was nuts! Perhaps its just me and I don't have the skill so in my case why bother with the added expense? I'm saving my coin for feature upgrades and let the audiofile stuff to the gifted.

    Thats all I'm saying
    HBomb ;)
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited November 2002
    Hey Guys,

    This post turned out to be pretty good after all. I love reading everybodies experiences and views on wires and interconnects. Definitely wire is an opinion on what sounds the best to a casual or die-hard listener but I really enjoy doing wire shootouts and discussing speaker wire and interconnect because everybody brings something different to the table on what they heard or experienced.

    I just got back from vacation in Arizona and I had a little time to do equipment and wire shootouts with some different equipment and I had a really good time.

    One of the best comparisons that I did was Nordost vs. Monster Cable and wow what a difference between them two cables.
    The Nordost has a really good natural tone to it not too mention how deep and detailed the soundstage was. I was totally in awe with how the wire presented itself with how clean and crisp the symbals were and the the bass guitar sounded really strong and powerful the way it should. Listening to the same track on the Monster M1.4's was still almost as fun to listen to but it seemed to fall off a little bit in overall crispness and the bass guitar lacked the attck and overall forcfullness that it had with the Nordost but I have to say since there was an almost 1400 dollar difference in the two I would say that they both performed very well but I would have to pick the Nordost over the Monster for sheer performance but the question is "Would the difference justify that much more money?"

    IMO if I had the money I would have to venture to say YES!!!!

    Man I just love competition.....................
    I sense much dishonesty in you...............Sense much fear in you.
    Lead you down the dark path they will.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    Dan, since you asked: Here are some random quotes that I think serve to illustrate my point. Again, I only post this since you seem genuinely mystified at why people say the things they say.

    "I do this **** every freaking day and I know exactly what it sounds like when you mix and match power amps........it sucks....even at a Proceed and Matrin Level

    My posts all come from experience not some mag I read or thing I read online

    With that being said...how many pairs of Wilson Watt Puppies have you listened to????
    What about Martin Logan..ever hang around with the Prodigies or Monolith's????
    What about Dynaudio Evidence Tempations or Confidence c7's????

    Have you ever made the trip to Soundex?I worked there for awhile Installing,and It was the best audio/video experience on my professional quest

    Alot of guys around here post more about what they read then what they hear

    Enter the term and enter the understanding.

    F1nut,
    you opnion of how Home Theater sounds is noted.You also must be in your forties if youv'e been to the movies without surround sound.There has been surround sound in the theater's since as far back as I can remember

    But the fact is,
    If you have a 2 channel stereo wired up with a video source....IT'S NOT HOME THEATER.....PERIOD.
    Call it what you want...old school, better fidelity for a vcr,good tv speakers ,but it's not a home theater system

    Thats it BDT.........so why is it so hard for you to understand.
    You can have your own opnion of what Home Theater is...YOUR WRONG.

    But the truth/fact is I am a factory trained Professional Installer and Programmer.I get trained on things you haven't seen because there not in the public eye

    I do this **** everyday.I have installed thousands of systems.One of my systems has been on MTV cribs"
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,696
    edited November 2002
    Thanks Troy, I remember that one....:lol:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited November 2002
    I picked that one out just for you amigo!

    Shoot, all that from, I think, 2 or 3 threads.


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by HBombToo


    rlw, in now way was my statement meant as a slam...

    when I said patient it was not regarding you in any way but referring to the topic and thats all. This is a very good topic which deserves my attention and I also enjoy learning and reading others experience.

    For me and me alone when I say demo I don't believe I can distinguish audio difference because of wire. I have a very untrained ear and I am not schooled or understand what goes into criticle listening. I know for a fact that I heard an improvement when I added a 200 Watt rms time 7 channels to my HT rig but for me to discern what is good or bad is very difficult. I know at the levels I listen there is no way in hell to clip or stress the amp but it seamed to add a clarity that I was not expecting. Wire on the other hand confuses the hell out of me.

    I have some big fat monster stuff on my Front L/R and bought it on the cheap, 50 bucks, but damn I could not hear the difference from my Rat Shack 12 guage with banana plugs. I swapped back and forth so many times my wife thought I was nuts! Perhaps its just me and I don't have the skill so in my case why bother with the added expense? I'm saving my coin for feature upgrades and let the audiofile stuff to the gifted.

    Thats all I'm saying
    HBomb ;)

    Wasn't taken as a slam at all - literally, I wasn't following what your post said, I didn't understand it, no comprende.

    What was the bit about splitting shipping?

    I wish I didn't hear differences. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper. I totally agree with the principle that you shouldn't pay any coin for something that doesn't improve the sound/your enjoyment/upgrade your system.

    I also agree that this is a difficult hobby at times. I know that posting on this forum and talking about all this helps me understand it better.

    As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
    How much you’ll pay for what you used to get for free
  • MxStYlEpOlKmAnMxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited November 2002
    i prefer cheap wire...wire is wire too me...and i like that stuff from home depot..lol
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,696
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
    ...wire is wire too me...

    Here is something to think about....You can't run your window A/C with lamp cord, at least not for long. To get the most out of audio you have to let the power flow.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mantismantis Posts: 15,407
    edited November 2002
    TroyD,
    I can see reading them out of content can sound like I'm an ****.I will up front say I'm sorry,when we get into pissing matches,I come across strong,I'd like to avoid them from here on out.
    OK........?
    "I do this **** every freaking day and I know exactly what it sounds like when you mix and match power amps........it sucks....even at a Proceed and Matrin Level
    taking this out of aggression,I feel this way about mixing amps.Tonal not awlays but dynamic range seems to change alot when things are going on.Distracting is what I'm trying to say.I guess you got to hear it to see what I'm talking about,If you never heard that, then I sound like a babbling Idiot.
    My posts all come from experience not some mag I read or thing I read online
    This is a true statement,I can't say I'm sorry for this one,I don't like to talk about what I read out of my mag's,spec sheets,manuals,etc.Sometimes I feel they can be misleading,Just my opnion,I perfer to talk from my personal experiences.It isn't meant to attack anyone for anything.
    With that being said...how many pairs of Wilson Watt Puppies have you listened to????
    I remember saying this but I can't recall why.I 'll have to seach for the post you pulled this from.I get the feeling that it was a high end vs someting speaker post........I'm not sure, sorry.
    Have you ever made the trip to Soundex?I worked there for awhile Installing,and It was the best audio/video experience on my professional quest
    Again a true post,I worked for Tweeter since the beginning,when I got the chance to venture into highend,I took it.I enjoyed working with systems I could only dream about.This is where I found Dynaudio......one of my goals in life is to own them...Sorry if that offends you,I don't know what to say.
    Alot of guys around here post more about what they read then what they hear
    At times I do feel this way.I wish alot of you guys would get out there and see it for yourself.Don't get me wrong,I love to help anytime I can, but sometimes it's really good to go listen.....then report back.Like the time Russ posted about what he thought the rti150's would sound like......I mean come on,you haven't heard them, so how can you possibley perdict what they are going to do...I can't.
    Enter the term and enter the understanding.
    I see you like this one,LOL.....it reads funny,if you read it you can understand where it comes from.

    I gotta run,going to see Jerry Cantrel in Philly,SO I will address the rest later.........So

    Peace until then........
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited November 2002
    There was a lot of really great opinions on wire in here so what are some of everybodies favorite speaker wires and interconnects?

    Also what does everybody own and what are some of you wanting to own?

    I really like Monster and Transparent but I tend to lean towards Monster for price reasons.

    I currently own Monster M2.2's for Left, Center, Right.
    Monster MCX-10/10 for surround and surround back
    Transparent Interconnects for Video and SACD
    Monster Game for XBOX
    Monster Surge Protector/Line Conditioner
    I sense much dishonesty in you...............Sense much fear in you.
    Lead you down the dark path they will.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,407
    edited November 2002
    Well TroyD,
    I'd like to put this bickering behind us......unless your still done with me.Anyways......peace,
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,407
    edited November 2002
    Sorry Dude(liv4fam),
    I also perfer Monster only for money reasons.Transparent I feel is one of if not the very best cable money can buy.They bring you closer to the music.If I could afford it,I'd use only Transparent,but my budget doesn't support a full Transparent wired system.All the things I'm doing,It just blows my budget out.But maybe one day down the road,I could own all Transparent in my system......Thats what I dream about.

    But Monstercable is one hell of a wire company.I don't feel they are over priced.....but a bang for the buck.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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