Just bought an HK AVR-745 to replace a denon 3802 did I screw up?

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Dannieboiz
Dannieboiz Posts: 242
edited December 2007 in Electronics
I jumped on an HK AVR-745 today since the price was at the right point. Little did I know it's only rated at 85wpc while my denon is 110wpc... I'm powering RTi10 and CSi5 in the fronts. I don't ever planning on to getting an external amp. I hope I did the right thing.
Sammy UN55C6400
Onkyo TX-SR875
Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
Velodyne DPS-12
MartinLogan Dynamo 10
Post edited by Dannieboiz on
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Comments

  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,723
    edited November 2007
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    I don't think it's really be better or worse, just different. It may be more up to date, I'm not sure, but new bells and whistles is all you'd be gaining.

    Don't worry about the power ratings, HK stuf is rated conservatively, that 85 will be every bit as much as those 110 on the Denon.

    I personally prefer the Denon, but that's subjective.
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited November 2007
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    I doubt the Denon at 110w is more powerful then the HK, as HK is usually rated for what it will do and the others can be a bit over rated. So saying that I think it most likely a wash.

    Speakers
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    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

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  • millerman 3732
    millerman 3732 Posts: 1,488
    edited November 2007
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    Make sure you give that HK room to breath, those things heat up quick, at least mine does and I don't even use the internal amp.
    Casey
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
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    May be a lateral move at best. I prefer Denon over HK...not a big fan of HK build quality...but you may like it better and can sell the Denon. If you find it's not an improvement or you like the old Denon better...you can always sell the HK.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    the only real way to test this is to hook this baby up..... But what about HDMI 1.1 on the HK? Do I care or get a HDMI 1.3? I do have a 1080p tv and my HTPC is 1080p capable. :(


    I'll report back in a couple hours when I'm done setting things up
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
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    The HK will smoke that Denon...
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
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    Early B wrote:
    The HK will smoke that Denon...

    Or just smoke.....
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited November 2007
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    I've got the Denon 3801 and its just fine at 105 wpc. I can't see that a switch to HK will get you anything more. You would have been much better served by adding an external amp to your Denon 3802 to power your mains.
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    I'm disappointed to say that the HK is a keeper!:D

    To be honest, I don't hear that big of a difference. It's got HDMI and the EZEQ for calibration wins over the Denon.
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,657
    edited November 2007
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    Unless the HK has more bells and whistles, I think it was a step back.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited November 2007
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    it all comes down to which sounds better... at least to me it would.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited November 2007
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    It's the sound you're used to...I went from HK to Denon for about a month...then back to HK. It was fine for HT, but really sounded flat for music. Considering the price of the 745, I'd think you'd notice a difference and preference right away.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,009
    edited November 2007
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    This comment is a bit late since I have been away on vacation, but I have been shocked at how much better a simple harman/kardon 147 has sounded with my Polk speakers compared to both a Denon AVR-3200 ($1200 new) and a more recent AVR-1803. Both Denon's are rated at 80w per channel and sound very feeble compared to the h/k rated at just 40w per channel (but "all channels driven"). Then Denon's also seem to reach distortion levels much easier than the h/k.

    EzSet/EQ did work very well on the h/k for me also and setup in general was a breeze.

    Unless it's just because these are older Denon AVRs (the 1803 is not really ancient though), I would never consider a Denon before a harman/kardon myself. The Denon finish does look much more sophisticated and pricey than the h/k though, IMO. I have been impressed by h/k so far, but find the finish somewhat tacky, even if it does have some WOW factor with the cool blue effects.
    Alea jacta est!
  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
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    HK is awesome. Keep the 745. It's 85 is like 130 from Yamaha, Denon, and Onkyo based on my highly biased opinion.

    I have two HKs and love them.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    There are two reasons why I'm really considering getting rid of the HK.

    1st. No 1080P this is important for me since my HTPC is 1080p.

    2nd. I can't force 5 channel stereo on all siginal. Only on certain signal and it's making me sick!
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited November 2007
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    1080p with Blue Ray is absolutely stunning.
  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
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    well, if you are needing 1080p with the power and such of the HK, you're probably gonna have to pay quite a bit more. I think the new Elites might be 1080p output.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,009
    edited November 2007
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    Dannieboiz wrote: »
    There are two reasons why I'm really considering getting rid of the HK.

    1st. No 1080P this is important for me since my HTPC is 1080p.

    2nd. I can't force 5 channel stereo on all siginal. Only on certain signal and it's making me sick!
    For the 1st point, considering all the issues and changes going on with HDMI, I am not sure why more people do not just decide to send the video signal directly to the TV/Monitor and get a Logitech Harmony remote to automate all the input/output changes. A lot of users seem to be sacrificing thier prefered sound quality just to get the HDMI interface working the way they want it on their AVR. A receiver will never improve your video quality if you already have a good output from your DVD player, it most definitely will make a difference to your audio quality.

    For the 2nd point. I am not sure why you can't get 5 channel stereo. I haven't noticed that there are any signals that don't work that way. If you tell me what you have hooked up I could try to see if I can duplicate the situation. Have you found anything to explain it in the manual or by contacting customer service?

    Edit: Are your 5 channel stereo issues occuring with DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1 signals? You may have to disable auto-detection for those to work in stereo.
    Alea jacta est!
  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
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    I guess I could see that for some Dolby material, it will only play one of the dolby processing formats. But, you should be able to listen to any music you like in 5-channel stereo by pressing a button or two.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    dolby digital is when 5 channel stereo doesn't. How do I disable auto detection?

    I do have a Harmony 880 besides the 745 comes with what appears to be a Harmany 550. :)

    If you can show me how to disable auto dectection and if I can somehow make 5 channel stereo work on all input signal I'll seriously consider keeping this puppy. I do like the look and even the sound.

    Also to answer your remote question. It's not the HDMI (audio) that I care for. It's simplifying my system so others in the family can use it with little to no training. I've been trying to show my fiance how the 880 works for the longest time and still having trouble.

    I have a few music DVD but most importantly use my HT as the music source for my Karaoke system that have it's old dedictated vocal speakers so 5 channel stereo is crucial in my setup.
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,009
    edited November 2007
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    Dannieboiz wrote: »
    ... the 745 comes with what appears to be a Harmany 550. :) ...
    I forgot that the 745 comes with a TC30. This is much better than a Harmony 550 IMO. It's basically all the functionality of the 880 with the more up to date styling of the 550/720. I'm not sure what software is used to support it though (Harmony or h/k), which might become an issue since h/k no longer sell the TC30 as a seperate unit.

    http://www.harmankardon.com/product_support/support_detail.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=&prod=TC%2030&sjump=ps&#active
    Alea jacta est!
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,009
    edited November 2007
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    Dannieboiz wrote: »
    dolby digital is when 5 channel stereo doesn't. How do I disable auto detection?
    ...
    If you can show me how to disable auto dectection and if I can somehow make 5 channel stereo work on all input signal I'll seriously consider keeping this puppy. I do like the look and even the sound.
    ...
    To turn off the auto-detect for digital signals, try the OSD "INPUT SETUP" menu and set "AUTO-POLL" to "OFF". You will probably have to run a seperate L/R audio cable for it to work though (the manual might even advise this, BTW).
    Alea jacta est!
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    if I turned off the auto-poll and disconnect the analog would it still allow me to have 5c stereo?

    BTW: I've email HK 2 days ago but still haven't got a response.
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,009
    edited November 2007
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    You need to set Auto Poll to OFF, and connect your DVD player with both a digital cable and an analog cable. You should then be able to manually select digital or analog input. Once in analog mode, you would be using the analog L/R RCA cable type connection to allow 5 channel stereo. When in digital mode, you will be using your optical/coaxial connection to allow you to listen to DVD-A or DVD movie material in DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1. Both should work without issue, but you will have to change manually since you will have disabled the auto-detect feature for 5.1 source material. Just press the "stereo" button on the remote and you should be able to cycle through the different stereo modes available, including five channel stereo.
    Alea jacta est!
  • JoshParsons84
    JoshParsons84 Posts: 565
    edited November 2007
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    Hey Dannieboiz, what condition is your Denon in? I might be interested if it's still in good condition and the price is right? How much do you think you'd sell it for? I've been wanting to do away with my Onkyo 503 (either sell it,trade it,or use it for a bedroom system) and get a nice Denon but never had had the funds to upgrade yet and I might be able to if the price is in my range for the 3802.
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    that's really annoying, the Denon will do 5 channel stereo regardless if it's analog or digital.

    I tried to turn off auto poll but it still doesn't work. I hope there's a walk around for this cause I really don't feel like running another set of cables.
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited November 2007
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    i feel your pain dannieboy. dannieboy, dannieboy, danniboy...(chumbawumba)

    but +2 as i cannot force my H/K7300 into 7.1 DD PLIIx mode!!!! it bugs me sooooo much i wanna get the onkyo 905.

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
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    ONKYO TX-SR805
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  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited November 2007
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    ok so it looks like it's an HK thing, hopefully I can find a decent deal on an AVR 3808 :(
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • Dannieboiz
    Dannieboiz Posts: 242
    edited December 2007
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    here's the response received from HK.

    Good morning and sorry for the delay. Unfortunately, since Dolby Digital
    is a default standard surround format, there is no way to bypass the
    format and switch to 5-channel stereo as long as you are using a digital
    input for that source. 5-channel stereo is a analogue surround format
    and you will need to either switch the output of the source to PCM from
    Bitstream or connect a 2nd set of analogue cables to the receiver to a
    different source input for analogue and then you can switch the surround
    mode to 5-channel stereo.

    Wonder why HK does this, Denon would let you do anything you want, its your ear, why force it. arghhh shame on them.

    Anyone have thoughts on the Denon 2808ci or 3806?
    Sammy UN55C6400
    Onkyo TX-SR875
    Def Tech: Mythos One, Three, Six
    Velodyne DPS-12
    MartinLogan Dynamo 10
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited December 2007
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    My old Onk 898 would do this so I always had an optical input alone with 2 channel RCA audio input. Just switching source if an issue came up where sound wasn't right.

    I lived so long with this problem I thought all AVR's did it, but I found out that my new PE 84tsi AVR had no problems with it so it's just feed optical from my problem source.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR