VMPS Tower IISE

VR3
VR3 Posts: 28,644
edited November 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
I have never heard a speaker that I can't decide whether I like or don't like...

But they definitely have bass - if nothing else! haha

More later --

Anyone have any tips to make these things better?

Or it could be I really just don't like this Outlaw for music... I'm thinking more so that (I miss my Candela! :()
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Well...

    You already know that the Outlaw is a weak link for music... I currently have the same issue (and of course, the same VMPS speakers). When will the Candela return?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    I still have the Candela

    But its got so much static and crap going on --

    Hard to pick it apart...

    Assuming I like these speakers enough to keep them...

    Going to strip the paint off the veneer, and depending on how easy it all comes off -- will either clear coat the oak or use a Walnut stain to match my Taylos...

    From there, will make a matching base...

    Everyone say awesome! ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited November 2007
    well now there you go,........getting all the outlaw's gunning for you.

    RT1
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    The Outlaw is what it is to me --

    Its a good HT preamp, not much more...

    The Candela is a stellar 2 ch preamp on the other hand...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,411
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    The Candela is a stellar 2 ch preamp on the other hand...

    what is wrong with it? static
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    The Outlaw is what it is to me --

    Its a good HT preamp, not much more...

    The Candela is a stellar 2 ch preamp on the other hand...

    Well, most HT preamps have a "pure audio" or "direct" mode, which sometimes helps with music.

    But I guess you're right - the Candela is going to be the winner.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    So I took out every single one of the drivers today ---

    The crossover for this speaker is a disaster... lol

    The Ribbon tweeter -- an inductor is inline with it, AT THE TWEETER

    The midbass (top 12" woof) has two resistors inline with it, AT THE WOOFER

    Then, there are so many toggle switches and inline knobs ---

    Was a cluster of crap in one area...

    I also snapped a knife in 2 trying to get the woofers out, they were literally suctioned in there -- broke one in half and the tip off of another one...

    I still havn't decided if I like them...

    They have to much bass, it makes them sound muddy....

    Its like they have alot of top end, lot of low end, and a faint midrange...

    Its very well spaced, but has absolutely zero body and texture to it --

    Its a weird sound

    I'm thinking the caps and so forth on the crossovers need to be upgraded

    I dunno, if I keep them ---

    Crossover upgrades and getting rid of that black finish and POS MDF base with a solid oak base would be first order...

    Thinking more on this one
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I still havn't decided if I like them...

    They have to much bass, it makes them sound muddy....

    Its like they have alot of top end, lot of low end, and a faint midrange...

    Its very well spaced, but has absolutely zero body and texture to it --

    Its a weird sound

    Hmmmm...

    I always felt mine didn't have enough bass. So when you heard mine, did you think they had too much bass? Did mine sound muddy? If not, then it's probably not the speaker.

    Same question -- did mine sound like they had a faint midrange? Did they sound like they had zero body and texture? Did mine sound weird?

    Keep tweaking. I can tell you that placement is absolutely critical with the Tower II's. If they're too close to the back or side walls, they're obviously gonna sound boomy. They need room to breathe. It took me a couple of weeks to get them right.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    I think I may know why they are boomy --

    Brian tunes the PR for like 18hz and I have them crossed over at 50hz -- that cant be helping anything

    I'll have to play around some more...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Just curious --

    Do your speakers use the Focal tweeter?

    If so, did you realize that they have no replacement?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I think I may know why they are boomy --

    Brian tunes the PR for like 18hz and I have them crossed over at 50hz -- that cant be helping anything

    I'll have to play around some more...

    Run them straight -- no X-30 or other stuff in the mix. Play with placement. Then report back on the sound.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Alright man

    I rerouted some cables --

    Brought the VMPS in, Taylos out to get some more spacing

    Will report tommorow
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    IIRC, the last time I heard the VMPS I didn't think they were too boomy.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Running full range --

    they definitely sound better...

    Without a doubt, the bass no longer sounds like crap --

    Its weird though, the only time I've heard detail like this was from a KLH speaker that costed 80 bucks a pair...

    And the reason I make that analogy, the detail presented is hardly natural --- will try turning down the super tweeter..

    The high hats are super loud on every single recording...

    But we are getting some where!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited November 2007
    Are these the strange looking 4 ways?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Dual 12" woofs ---
    Midrange
    Tweet
    Super Tweet
    12" PR

    All in one cabinet
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    It is hard to judge these speakers with the Outlaw though -- that is for sure...

    Alot of the issues I'm having with the VMPS speakers are similar to the problems I had with the Outlaw on the Taylos

    No prescence/texture in vocals, bright, and bloated bass...

    So -- hmm, will be interesting to hear these speakers on the Candela as they are pretty darn good speakers for their age...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    It is hard to judge these speakers with the Outlaw though -- that is for sure...

    Alot of the issues I'm having with the VMPS speakers are similar to the problems I had with the Outlaw on the Taylos

    No prescence/texture in vocals, bright, and bloated bass...

    So -- hmm, will be interesting to hear these speakers on the Candela as they are pretty darn good speakers for their age...

    OK, we're getting closer. What kind of speaker cables are you using?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Sig Cab Ultra Bi-Wire
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Internal VMPS pics coming soon Brad --

    Just letting you know that in advance....
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Looking for some help here --

    Just curious if anyone can point me to a tool that can measure capacitor values ---

    Also --

    Here is a diagram I drew up with no real technical knowledge - best I could

    Keep in mind, inline with the tweeter and midrange is a knob as well...

    If I were to redo these crossovers --

    Two things I would like to do is totally bypass the switches and knobs... as I hate the idea lol

    So what would you do to bypass the switches and knobs?

    Thanks for any and all help!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-814 --

    .022 uF capacitor -

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-462

    .15 uF capacitor -

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-600

    47 uF Capacitor -

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=027-238

    7 uF Capacitor -

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=027-834

    .33 uF Capacitor -

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=004-8

    10 W Resistors

    This is about all I can find

    Both the Solen and Dayton capacitors listed above are 5% tolerances... fwiw
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Also --

    Am I understanding this crossover correctly?

    But on the top post -- are the woofers and midranges tied together?

    And on the bottom the tweeter and super tweeter tied together?

    Ok -- second thought ---

    If I were to remove the switch..

    Would I just wire all the positives to the positive post, and the negatives to the negatives and just get rid of the cables that tie the two sets of post together?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Is this how you would get rid of the toggle switch?

    I'll probally keep the l pads --

    But the toggle switch to me is absolutely, positively pointless... and definitely cant help the sound any...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Wow.

    Based on those pics, I'm having second thoughts about upgrading the crossovers in my TII's.

    You should move this project to the DIY section. I'll be watching this one carefully on the sidelines.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Im thinking about it

    It will be a very costly project... so definitely nothing I plan to do in the near future

    But I would take out your drivers --- and I would get some new gasket tape to seal them -- the seal he uses is paper thin...

    Just my opinion --

    Its not as complex as it looks, just take out one set of capacitors at a time... put the new ones in -- repeat...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Brad -

    Focal's current version of the T120 ---

    http://estore.websitepros.com/1736754/Detail.bok?no=301
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Well --

    I plugged my Taylos back up today --

    What an overall difference between the VMPS and Taylo....

    I absolutely just -- love the Taylos... just sweet sweet stuff...

    I think I have decided to keep these speakers -- refinish them, maybe swap out the tweeter so they can handle higher volume passages without fear of breaking... - be some killer surrounds...

    I lifted them on top of my subwoofers just now... some absolutely beastly speakers

    I'll give them another shot when the Candela is fixed and back in business... its only fair
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited November 2007
    I think the outlaw is tainting your results here... yes give them another shot. *most* speakers can sound good with the right associated equipment.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    The Outlaw is not very good for music --

    That is a definite, so I'm definitely going to give them another go
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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