Will this setup be a good choice?

unforgiven

I went to sound advice and listened to some setups and loved the LSi series. I'm thinking of buying the following setup but I'm not sure how well it will work. I have read alot about this needing an amp but others say not necessary. Here is what I'm working with:

Room 25' wide, 18' deep, 11' ceiling.

I will be using at a HT 95% of the time. We never listen to music in the house and do not care for really loud volume or constant volume. Nice loud effects are ok.

LSi15 Fronts
LSi Center
LSi9 Surrounds

Adding PSW-125 Powered Subwoofer because crutchfield offering free $199.00 sub. Upgrading to this and getting a $199 credit. This may be a toy compared to the rest of the system though.

Onkyo 805 Receiver so I can upgrade to 7.1 later and it supports the 4 Ohm LSi speakers.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Refefer

Welcome!

You might want to explore the FX for the surrounds instead of the 9's, not that the 9's would be a poor choice. Aside from that observation, speaker wise you are cherry.

As for the poweramp concern: you want it. Sure, you can run the lsi series with your onkyo, but it's kinda like watching tv when the screen is covered with tape: you can kinda see it, but its a helluva lot better with it off.

Don't bother with that sub, it'll do more to detract from the home theater than it will add.

engtaz

If you listen to 5Ch stereo or SACD's go with the LSi9's. G-2 has them and their awesome.

engtaz

cfrizz

Welcome Unforgiven.

You will definately have to budget for separate amplification of at least 200wpc. Otherwise you risk the speakers, the receiver, & simply won't hear what the LSI's are truly capable of doing.

It is not a matter of loudness, it is a matter of greater clarity, bass, separation of instruments, clearer vocals, etc.

There is a ton of info regarding LSI's & receivers & separate amplification here on the club. Just do a search.

You will get more bang for your buck if you buy a used amp from Audiogon.

G-2

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome Unforgiven.

You will definately have to budget for separate amplification of at least 200wpc. Otherwise you risk the speakers, the receiver, & simply won't hear what the LSI's are truly capable of doing.

It is not a matter of loudness, it is a matter of greater clarity, bass, separation of instruments, clearer vocals, etc.

There is a ton of info regarding LSI's & receivers & separate amplification here on the club. Just do a search.

You will get more bang for your buck if you buy a used amp from Audiogon.

+1000! You're going to need separate amplification for these speakers! I'd recommend you find something with at least 200 watts per channel. Your Onk won't run those LSi's. We can't say enough positive about the LSi's, as our setup has become Nirvana for HT but they do require min 200 watts per channel. You can trim some $$'s out of your budget by looking at 7's for the rears. We use 9's for our rears (we do listen to 5 channel SACD/DVD-A's and the 9's sounds great!) and FX's on the sides (of course right now we're listening to our 2 channel setup, including our new Polk 10a's). This is just some food for thought but if you don't have additional $$'s for the additional amp/watts, you may want to consider a different speaker (something in the 8 ohm category). What ever you decide, please keep us posted!

unforgiven

Thanks Guys for the warm welcome and the helpful information. I'll do some more reading here about the amps. I was talking with a friend at work today who has a nice theater and he was telling me that I should also go with amps.

The comment about not going with that subwoofer. Are you saying not to go with a subwoofer at all and only use what is in the lsi15s or that I need a different subwoofer. I have a Klipsch KSW-12 right now. Should I not use that with this setup?

If I go with amps, should I not get the Onkyo Receiver then? Seem like overkill if I'm driving amps.

Thanks again and I'm sure I will have more questions.

McLoki

Welcome to Club Polk. Your system should sound really nice (I am pretty familiar with a very similar system).

I also really like external amps for the speakers. I do not know if it is an absolute requirement with that AVR, but it will make for a nice upgrade. When shopping for an AVR, look for Pre-outs for all channels and the features you want. Don't worry so much about power as that will come as you add external amps. It is foolish to spend extra money on an AVR just to get an extra 20-50watts - purchase it based on features and if you want more power, add external amplification.

You should plan for a nice subwoofer. If you do not have the budget for it - use whatever subwoofer you have until you get more money. If you purchase in interem steps (i.e. upgrading a subwoofer over and over until you finally end up with what you wanted in the first place), it will end up costing alot more and you may end up stopping the upgrade path way short of what a home theater based on these speakers deserves.

BTW - nice subs start in the $500-$600 range and go up to $2,000 or more. It all depends on your room size and volume requirements.

Do you research now before you put down your money and you will be thrilled beyond belief at what a home theater based on LSi's can deliver.

Michael

bruss

Listen to these guys about the amps.. I got a nice used adcom amp after reading a ton of info on this forum.. You are in the right spot to figure it out and build a killer rig...

unforgiven wrote: »

I went to sound advice and listened to some setups and loved the LSi series. I'm thinking of buying the following setup but I'm not sure how well it will work. I have read alot about this needing an amp but others say not necessary. Here is what I'm working with:

Room 25' wide, 18' deep, 11' ceiling.

I will be using at a HT 95% of the time. We never listen to music in the house and do not care for really loud volume or constant volume. Nice loud effects are ok.

LSi15 Fronts
LSi Center
LSi9 Surrounds

Adding PSW-125 Powered Subwoofer because crutchfield offering free $199.00 sub. Upgrading to this and getting a $199 credit. This may be a toy compared to the rest of the system though.

Onkyo 805 Receiver so I can upgrade to 7.1 later and it supports the 4 Ohm LSi speakers.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

unforgiven

Question: I'm looking at amps now and was wondering how most people set these up. One amp running all channels or multiple amps running a couple speakers each. Someone mentioned to go with 200 watts per channel. What would be the max wattage I would want to go in case I find a good deal?

Any preferrence on A,B,D amps? All of my gear is in an enclosed stand so I could have heat issues. Thinking of doing the singles on each speaker or a two and a three.

McLoki

Preference of single (mono), dual (stereo) or 3 or more channel amps comes down to how much you can spend and how much rack space you have.

Personally I like class A/B amps. You will have more heat issues with these though. Class D holds promise but is just not there yet imo. (Carver uses a modified class D design and it work really well though) Class G is more for subwoofers and not usually seen for full range speakers.

Personally I would go multi channel (3 or more) and if needed get a nice 2 channel amp to run your front speakers off of.

The 200wpc mantra is more a general guidline than a rule. You really do not need that many watts usually, but it ensures that other things like current and dampening factor are up to snuff as well since there are not many "bottom of the barrel" 200 watt amps.

There is no upper limit to watts per channel to look at. Just if you do not really know the ins and outs of amps and all their ratings and specs - 200wpc is a decent rule of thumb to ensure what you end up with will give you the benefits you are looking for.

Michael

Bill Ayotte

Ah.......Sunfire 200X5 would be an excellent choice. It is 400X5@4ohms, and they can be had at a really reasonable price now....As for a pre, I have no idea what your needs are (HDMI,etc) so I really can't suggest anything....I would try for a pre, but if it comes down to it, I would pick up a cheaper receiver with pre-outs for the time being....Don't skimp out on the power, you can never have too much....Too little will hurt them long before having 400 on them.....Hell, someone here has the signature model 400X5@8ohm sunfire powering 4ohm speakers if I remember correctly....It turns [email]800X5@4ohms...That[/email]'s one hell of an amp.

Refefer

In fact, this doesn't seem to be such a bad deal: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1198800340

cfrizz

My Sunfire amp is 405wpc x 5 & only weighs 43lbs! Runs cool as a cucumber & makes my all my speakers sound their best!

Outstanding buy on that Sunfire link Refefer has post.

Unless you have umpteen outlets & lots of rack space, just get one 5-7 channel amp & be done with it.

unforgiven

You guys are awesome. Thanks so much for the help. That amp does look like a great deal. I am a little aprehensive about buying used though. I've been burned a couple of times doing that and it ended up costing me more in the end. Just my paranoia though.

I have hit upon a problem I need to resolve. I can't find a good place to put the bookself rears where my wife will agree. She let's me do what I want as long as it does not affect her decorating. Thus the delima. I will take some pictures of the room later tonight and maybe you guys might have some ideas. Worst case (if it's even that bad) is I might have to go with wall or ceiling mounted speakers which has it's own problem as I have two story house and can't find a way to wire them.

I found some references to amps that are some at this music product site. Any difference in these amps from what you would use on an HT or is an amp an amp.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation/power-amps?N=100001+305334

My friend at work suggested that I could get a nice two channel to drive the main towers and by offloading this from the Onkyo, it could better handle the center and rears. He did say he is in no way an expert though.

I'm also waiting for Sound Advice to call me and let me know what kind of deal they will give me on these speakers as a private sale.

Thanks again guys for all your help!

cfrizz

Those are professional amps that power speakers at concerts. They usually have noisy fans that you can't hear outside, but could be very distracting in a home. It is also said that they are not very musical. They will give you tons of power but have no finness.

Don't listen to your friend since he doesn't know what he is talking about. You are getting 4ohm speakers, which demand more power than any amplifier in a receiver can give them.

Unless you really want to risk burning out your tweeters in the LSI's or burning up your receiver till it shuts down, I suggest you follow our advice.

john22614

with a set up like that, you really ought to give music a try......but, get a good amp and no cheap subs allowed

unforgiven

Thanks again. I will definitely research and do the amp if I purchase this system. My biggest problem right now is figuring out the surround placement and how to get wires back there. My wife vetoed my original plan. She is a sweetheart in that she lets me buy what I want, but if I start impacting her interior design she lets me know real fast.

McLoki

What floor are you on? (1st, 2nd, basement?) what obsticals do you have? (mounting on wall is easiest, mounting on exterior wall is harder, putting a speaker on a stand in the middle of a tile floor is almost impossible....

Post pics if you can (at least a layout of the room).

We have all been there - trust me, there are ways around most wiring issues...

Michael

unforgiven

Well, this ought to be fun. I'll post as much detail around each picture as possible. The fronts are a no brainer. The rears are going to be a pain in the butt. This is on the first floor and I have not found a way to get above the ceiling to do wiring. Ok, here goes and ignore the mess:


This is the back of the room. The bar is the rear of my living room where the surrounds need to be located around. I'm thinking of putting one of the LSi9s on a pedistal where you see the wall angle off to the right that is a hallway. The ceiling slopes all the way into the living room. It is about 14' at the high point and slopes down to around 10'.


This is the left rear if I'm facing the front. The thin protruding wall at the end of the bar has a hallway on the other side. The wall slopes off and as mentioned I could put a surround on a pedistal there. Getting speaker wire to it is another story.


This will be the left wall. I will eventually put a center rear somewhere on this wall. You can see the ceiling slope down from about 14' to 10'.


This is just the left corner. Nothing special to note here.


This is obviously the front wall. I will put the towers on each end of the entertainment center. The center speaker and all equipement will go inside the cabinet the TV is sitting upon. The ceiling is about 10' on this wall and slopes up to the 14' about center way into the living room.


This is the right front corner and the ceiling slopes meet here. The tile floor in front of the fireplace make it very difficult if not impossible to run cable under the rug here.


This is the right wall. Later problem will be where to put right side surround.



This is the fun one. Where to place the right rear surround. The end of the bakers rack (wife had to tell me what it's called :rolleyes:) is about even with the bar. I could put it on a pedistal behind the recliner but that would be much further to the side than the left one. Ideal would be on a pedistal at the end of the bar but that would be in the way of traffic and my 5 year old would at some point knock it over.

That's what I have to work with. No back wall to mounting and no access to the ceiling to get above it and run wire. One other note is my wife wants to rip up the carpet and put in hardwood floors next year so under carpet may not be an option either. You probably notice my bose surrounds are on pedistals on the front wall outside the mains that are sitting up on the window.

Again, all suggestion welcome and appreciated.

McLoki

Do you have a basement or crawlspace? (if basement is there a finsihed ceiling?) Is down an option? (rather than up).

When you replace the floor are you going to replace the trim as well? (it is pretty easy to cut a channel into the back of the trim for wire to run through - with a hole behind the speaker and one behind the trim to get it down there...)

Before you start drilling holes and mounting things, definately play with placement with wire running all over the floor. I know it will look ugly, but once the wire is run, you don't have much wiggle room to get the sound right. You might as well try different options before you start that task.

I would really think about a 5.1 system rather than a 7.1. I am just not seeing good locations for your side surrounds and think this is a case where 7.1 may be worse than 5.1 with the final sound field created.

As far as mounting options. Initial thoughts are one speaker on top of the ledge by the sink (where the plants are now) or on a wall stand coming out where your wine rack is now and the other side above the wrought iron shelves that your pictures and plates are on (also on a wall stand) The wall mounts I was thinking of are the B-Tech BT-77's. I am using them for my LSi7's now. (click on the quote in my sig to go to my showcase) They work really well and would be fine for the LSi9's as well.

unforgiven

That's would seem a reasonable placement. Can the LSi9's go up high? I was thinking because they are bookshelves, they would have to be about ear high on stands. Would you have to point them down toward the sitting location? If I place one on the outside of the angled wall and one on the wall above the bakers rack, I could get them both about the same height at about 8 feet. The brackets you showed would allow me to point and tilt them. The only thing is the left rear would be closer than the right rear. Is that problem? I think you are on to something here. I never considered I could wall mount the LSi9s!

With that said, the LSi7s are smaller which may make them a better choice. The place where I listened to the 9s do not have the sevens so I can't listen to them. Would I notice anything significantly different?

unforgiven

Looks like those mounts won't work with the lsi9s

mount for speakers 5-1/2"-11" wide; up to 20" high and up to 13" deep
lsi9 - 14-7/8" H x 8-5/8" W x 15-1/4" D

Thinking out loud here. Lsi9 to Lsi7 saves me $200.00
If going with amps, I don't need that much receiver. Step down from Onkyo 805 to Onkyo 705 saves me $250. That's $450 to put toward an amp which helps. I was looking at going to the Onkyo 605 but it only has 3 pre-outs. Or is that correct? Looking at the back image, it looks like it may have all the outs for an amp but I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. It would be great if it did:

http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/images/txsr605_rear_300.jpg

The 805 drops me from 12 to 10 pre-outs so I should be ok there. I haven't looked that much at other receivers that will give me the best sound for my hd-dvd player.

Emlyn

unforgiven wrote: »

I will be using at a HT 95% of the time. We never listen to music in the house and do not care for really loud volume or constant volume. Nice loud effects are ok.

Given the unusual shape of the open layout, and using the system barely at all for music, have you considered getting a Surroundbar from Polk and a really good subwoofer? The setup is very simple and wouldn't cause you anywhere near the trouble of running wires all around the room.

sbpolk

I would definately do a good 5.1 system in your situation. Ditto what others have said there. Also, the LSi7 is a fantastic sounding speaker, and you would very definately NOT miss anything by using them for rears instead of the LSi9. I have LSi15s up front, and often think I would have been JUST as satisfied with LSi9s for fronts with a REALLY good sub, i.e. SVS PB13 Ultra or PB12/Plus2. I don't run them full range for HT use, so I think I waste a bit of their capabilities. They sure look great though!

For reference, I have a dedicated theater room, with LSi15 pair, LSiC, and four LC65i inwalls. I have been using an Emotiva LPA-1, giving the LSi15s about 225watts @4ohms. It has sounded great. Just bought an Emotiva MPS-1, which is 7x300 @4ohms, 7x400@ 2ohms. Gonna have more powa' now!

sbpolk

BTW, tell your wife she does an EXCELLENT job with her interior design!

I don't know how cheap you are trying to be, but if I were trying to do it on a budget, here is what I would do.

LSiC
LSi9 on stands up front
LSi7 rears (or LSiFXs)
Emotiva LPA-1 6x225 @4ohms..... Just $549 shipped from Emotiva.com
SVS PB12
Receiver of your choice....

cfrizz

You have it wrong Unforgiven.

You are looking for receivers that have preout outputs. The Onkyo 605 doesn't have any. The lowest receiver you can get is the 705 which does have preout outputs for separate amplification.

unforgiven wrote: »

Looks like those mounts won't work with the lsi9s

mount for speakers 5-1/2"-11" wide; up to 20" high and up to 13" deep
lsi9 - 14-7/8" H x 8-5/8" W x 15-1/4" D

Thinking out loud here. Lsi9 to Lsi7 saves me $200.00
If going with amps, I don't need that much receiver. Step down from Onkyo 805 to Onkyo 705 saves me $250. That's $450 to put toward an amp which helps. I was looking at going to the Onkyo 605 but it only has 3 pre-outs. Or is that correct? Looking at the back image, it looks like it may have all the outs for an amp but I'm not really sure what I'm looking at. It would be great if it did:

http://www.gspr.com/onkyo/images/txsr605_rear_300.jpg

The 805 drops me from 12 to 10 pre-outs so I should be ok there. I haven't looked that much at other receivers that will give me the best sound for my hd-dvd player.

ND13

I'd save money, by getting the 9s for your fronts and the 7s for your rears. Then spend the savings on upgrading the sub and you can get one of the smaller HK receivers(AVR 240 or similar, which have preouts) and a good high current amp.

Welcome to the Club and nice place. Looks like your tv has outgown your entertainment center;):)

unforgiven

Some Great feedback. It's going to take me a while to wade through it and look at all the options but I'm very greatful for the advice. I'm sure I'll have another round of questions afterward. Sbpolk, my wife said thanks. She did put a lot of time and money into it so I do have to be careful not to "take away" from her room.

I have not considered a soundbar. I've never heard them recommended before so I've never even looked at them. Do they really work? I thought they just played with the phases or something.

Got it on the 605, but one of the compares I was looking at with the 605, 705 and 805 listed the preamp outputs at 3,10 and 12 respectively.

Face

unforgiven wrote: »

Got it on the 605, but one of the compares I was looking at with the 605, 705 and 805 listed the preamp outputs at 3,10 and 12 respectively.

The 3 are for Zone 2 and your sub. Go for the 705 or up.

McLoki

any reason you were thinking the 15's over the 9's? If it is for sound - dont worry about it if you get a good sub. If it is because you like the look of towers - 15's it is...

For the rears - I currently have 7's instead of 9's and have never wanted more from my rear surrounds. (Both go well below my 80hz cutoff point for the sub so the added bass of the 9's does not matter) If you just like the look of the 9's over the 7's, thats fine. They will still work on those stands. (keep in mind that that the speakers will be pointed almost 90 degrees in the stand so the back will be angled twords the wall, not perpendicular to it. - you will have plenty of room...)

The rear speakers are placed well above your fronts and usually pointed at something they will reflect off of or at a point above the heads of seated listeners. (mine are pointed about 2' behind and above the main seating position.) For your placement, I think direct radiating (7's or 9's) will work better than di-bi pole (fx's).

For your center, you may be better off putting it on top of the bridge (angled down)between your two entertainment towers rather than in a cabinet (angled up). We can cross that one when we get there though...

For AVR's all I can tell you is what I would look for if I was purchasing one now.... HDMI inputs and outputs (at least 3 in and 1 out) and preouts for front (left and right) surround (left and right) center and sub.

also - we still have wires to contend with - what about that basement or crawlspace?

unforgiven

Interesting thought about putting the center up high. I haven't considered that either. Oh, I'm in Florida so we don't have basements. Concrete slab so no access to from underneith. I still need to try to see if I can find an access above the room. If I go up in my attic inside the garage, their is a solid wall of insulation. I can try pulling some down to see what it looks like behind it. If their is space, it won't be much. Not sure when I can do that though. I am seriously considering the 7's now that I'm almost definite I will wall mount then. The tower preference is looks and also it is what I heard demonstrated. The 9's will probably be excellent there also. If I switch, it will be a bottom line price decision. I still need to do the research on the suggestions given. I've been running around with my little girl doing soccer games today.