Would a bad tube cause a buzz?

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Not sure if that eliminates the PC or not...
    Not necessarily.

    It could be a combo of plug-ins or just two that can cause something like this. Try to plug everything in the way you had it before w/o the PC. At least to the best of your knowledge.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Thanks guys for ALL the help - I appreciate it 100%!

    Hopefully me and Klaus can figure it out from here... may have to send it his way and live off the Zune for a while ;)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Hmm - If I just unplugged everything except the Pres/CDP/Amps - would that work?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    One more thing, you said the Shanling plugged directly into the monos produced static.

    How is it now?
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Hmm - If I just unplugged everything except the Pres/CDP/Amps - would that work?

    You know what? That might just work!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    If I run it with the Candela, the static does not increase at all between the Zune and Shanling when switching sources -- so it seems like the Candela is producing all fo the static...

    I can't explain the static from the Shanling --- kind of bothersome but I'll say this....

    The Shanling kicks the Zunes **** - 100% --- no comparison...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    I lined up two of the exact same songs, lossless transfer on the Zune -- dynamics, clarity, everything IMMEDIATELY goes to the Shanling
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    If I run it with the Candela, the static does not increase at all between the Zune and Shanling when switching sources -- so it seems like the Candela is producing all fo the static...

    I can't explain the static from the Shanling --- kind of bothersome but I'll say this....

    The Shanling kicks the Zunes **** - 100% --- no comparison...

    There is static from the Shanling -> monos, right?

    I'm still thinking something's up with the Shanling.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Hmm - If I just unplugged everything except the Pres/CDP/Amps - would that work?
    That would simplify things.

    If you get the gumption...try it. Plug in the way you best remember and rotate/switch if necessary. If this doesn't work, then we are down to nill for components.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Also, what's odd is that the Shanling -> Crown is also producing static. That's with eliminating everything else in the path.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Well -- lol.. you guys are going to laugh

    Before I had...

    A four outlet extention on the wall and two electrical components off that -- one plugged into the other...

    Ran the TV, amps, pre, cdp, xbox, fan, cable, crossover, anything within reach of that outlet off one thing... ;)

    So -- can't really re-create that.... hehe
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Actually the Crown only produced static with the Shanling at FULL GAIN

    At mid gain, the Shanling produced nothing - thats also with the Shanling at FULL VOLUME

    See -- with the Monos, they are always at full gain -- 100%

    So perhaps when you turn down the Shanling volume, you get all of the static that can be picked up...

    Like I said, bothersome -- but makes sense in perspective to gains (atleast to me in my bewildered trying to just rationalize everything that just happened state)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Well -- lol.. you guys are going to laugh

    Before I had...

    A four outlet extention on the wall and two electrical components off that -- one plugged into the other...

    Ran the TV, amps, pre, cdp, xbox, fan, cable, crossover, anything within reach of that outlet off one thing... ;)

    So -- can't really re-create that.... hehe

    But it worked, right?
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited November 2007
    Bad tube in the Shanling produces some noise when run straight into the amps, but when amped up by the preamp by 15db more gain, it is out of control once it gets to the Monos.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Actually the Crown only produced static with the Shanling at FULL GAIN

    At mid gain, the Shanling produced nothing - thats also with the Shanling at FULL VOLUME

    See -- with the Monos, they are always at full gain -- 100%

    So perhaps when you turn down the Shanling volume, you get all of the static that can be picked up...

    Like I said, bothersome -- but makes sense in perspective to gains (atleast to me in my bewildered trying to just rationalize everything that just happened state)

    Still not supposed to happen. When I had my Adcom GFA-535, it was always at full gain (100%), and when connected to my TV or even a cheap $20 DVDP (with variable audio out), there was no static whatsoever. Also same thing with a DJ mixer.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    Bad tube in the Shanling produces some noise when run straight into the amps, but when amped up by the preamp by 15db more gain, it is out of control once it gets to the Monos.

    This is a very good point -- I will remove the tubes fromt he Shanling and see what happens...

    Only question I have is --

    Why would the same static be audible with the Zune and the Shanling, particulrly when the Shanling isnt even plugged up?

    Its a very weird situation, I've been scratching my noggin ALOT though
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Well, when the Shanling isn't even plugged up, you have nothing connected to the input, right?

    In Electrical Engineering class we always terminate unused connectors - for example, a SCSI terminator for the PC.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    I know it shouldn't be, but apparently when the Shanling isn't even plugged up to the Candela, you are getting static.

    Weird.

    And going back a few posts, the Shanling produces the most static at ZERO volume and max gain on the Crown?
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Why would the same static be audible with the Zune and the Shanling, particularly when the Shanling isn't even plugged up?
    Try it.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Monos + Shanling + Speakers + Nothing Playing (Stopped) = No Noise

    Monos + Shanling + Speakers + Something Playing = HOLY EFFING JESUS CHRIST'S SISTER IN HOLY JOSEPH I'M ABOUT TO BE KILLED NOISE

    So there is a lot of noise when the Shanling is plugged directly to the monos, but the same noise is there when going through the Candela?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    I went in order basically with the Zune ---

    Zune to Amps

    Zune to Crossover to Amps (First instance of static)

    Candela to Crossover to Amps (Zune As An Input) (Most Static Present)

    Candela To Crossover to Amps (Zune AND Shanling as Inputs) (Same Static As Previous Arrangement)

    This is what leads me to believe that the Candela is producing the static...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Hmm, in my previous post you said there was a LOT of noise from the Shanling.

    Sure, the Candela may be producing the static, but there still shouldn't be "I'M ABOUT TO BE KILLED NOISE" from the Shanling.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I went in order basically with the Zune ---

    Zune to Amps

    Zune to Crossover to Amps (First instance of static)

    Candela to Crossover to Amps (Zune As An Input) (Most Static Present)

    Candela To Crossover to Amps (Zune AND Shanling as Inputs) (Same Static As Previous Arrangement)

    This is what leads me to believe that the Candela is producing the static...

    Then maybe there is a problem with the Candela.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Then maybe there is a problem with the Candela.

    :p

    I think that may be the case ;);)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Get some sleep and hope it works tomorrow. I'm literally falling asleep in front of the computer.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited November 2007
    Just thinking -

    Maybe something in the CDP affected the Candela?
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited November 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I went in order basically with the Zune ---

    Zune to Amps

    Zune to Crossover to Amps (First instance of static)

    Candela to Crossover to Amps (Zune As An Input) (Most Static Present)

    Candela To Crossover to Amps (Zune AND Shanling as Inputs) (Same Static As Previous Arrangement)

    This is what leads me to believe that the Candela is producing the static...

    If Zune to Amps = no noise then.......

    According to this statement, the crossover is bad and the preamp boosts the badness into the amp which boosts it more. This must be true since it is independent of source.

    The reason for the noise being less with Zune-C/O-Amp is that the Zune is putting a clean signal into a passive noise maker (CO). The noise isn't amplified with the signal only added.

    With the Candela added, once noise is in the signal path from the CO, the preamp adds more gain to both noise and signal, then the Monos amplify that hotter signal again. Noise is growing exponentially within the signal path as voltage rises. You are basically getting a higher noise to signal ratio with each boost.


    This is precisely why you try not to stack preamps or use headphone outs when a fixed line level output is available. Noise gets induced.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited November 2007
    I'll try it without the crossover in the loop tommorow.... :)

    After working on the system for... 6 hours troubleshooting --

    I was in the mood to just tear everything apart and do some new wire managment to go around with the PC --- much MUCH easier to manage my cables now...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • JimBRICK
    JimBRICK Posts: 1,543
    edited November 2007
    I had the same problem with my nad receiver I changed out analog cables and problem went away. sounded like an annoying humming from speakers that you could hear no matter how loud you had it. I disconnected the cables running from my satilite receiver and the problem went away. Just a thought
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    edited November 2007
    Trey, I'm only 15 miles from you and I'll be more than happy to take away all this stuff. Just so you can get some peace. I'll "dispose of it".
    Here to help,
    Russ
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