The future of upconverting stand-alone DVD players

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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    MGPK wrote: »
    1080i has half the information as 1080p

    Absolutely not true. 1080i output is not 24fps, it's 60fps.
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  • MGPK
    MGPK Posts: 88
    edited November 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    Absolutely not true. 1080i output is not 24fps, it's 60fps.

    So there is no difference between an interlaced field and progressive scan? Enquiring minds would like to know.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    MGPK wrote: »
    So there is no difference between an interlaced field and progressive scan? Enquiring minds would like to know.

    If there are 24 frames in a second and you have 60 frames to deliver it, does it matter if you output interlaced or progressive? No. Does it matter if you DISPLAY interlaced or progressive? Yes.

    The whole, "it doesn't output 1080p" is really not an issue since the TV (if it is 1080p) will convert it to progressive. On 1080p60 output your bandwidth is twice as much but you're transferring the same data twice, you're not transferring anymore actual information than 1080i signal.
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  • MGPK
    MGPK Posts: 88
    edited November 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    If there are 24 frames in a second and you have 60 frames to deliver it, does it matter if you output interlaced or progressive? No. Does it matter if you DISPLAY interlaced or progressive? Yes.

    The whole, "it doesn't output 1080p" is really not an issue since the TV (if it is 1080p) will convert it to progressive. On 1080p60 output your bandwidth is twice as much but you're transferring the same data twice, you're not transferring anymore actual information than 1080i signal.

    First of all, any flat panel television is progressive by nature.

    Second, there is a 2:1 difference between outputting and displaying a progessively scanned video vs video being delivered via an interlaced field.

    Third, video is processed at 30 fps.

    The actual transfer from film to video can be very revealing on a higher end television which made necessary for the 3:2 pulldown to remove motion artifacts and decrease jitter. When the film is actually transferred @24fps and mastered as such the 3:2 pulldown is redundant.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    MGPK wrote: »
    First of all, any flat panel television is progressive by nature.

    And the point is?

    What't reason then to outout 1080i60 instead of 1080i24?

    In the end, the data being transferred is 1920x1080x24 = 49766400 pixels. 1080i60 delivers 1920 x 1080/2 x 60 = 62208000 pixels. When that information is put back in the TV you end up with the same picture whether the signal was 1080i60, 1080p24 or 1080p60.
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  • MGPK
    MGPK Posts: 88
    edited November 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    And the point is?

    What't reason then to outout 1080i60 instead of 1080i24?

    In the end, the data being transferred is 1920x1080x24 = 49766400 pixels. 1080i60 delivers 1920 x 1080/2 x 60 = 62208000 pixels. When that information is put back in the TV you end up with the same picture whether the signal was 1080i60, 1080p24 or 1080p60.

    You really don't get it, do you. You're so wound up in these mathematical formulas it's clouding your judgement. If there was no difference in 1080i vs 1080p why can't a 1080i television scan a 1080p image correctly if at all? Because a 1080i television can't process that much bandwith and don't try to say that it is displaying the information twice, that's just drivel. Maybe rethink your math. 1080i is: 1920 x 1080/2 x 30 = 31,104,000.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    Maybe it's you who's not getting it. We aren't talking about 1080i TV's, we are talking about 1080i sources. Two totally different things.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    Hey fellas --

    In plain English, I just want to know if it's worthwhile to consider "upgrading" from a 1080i TV to 1080p. How much better is the picture quality, if at all? Is this difference substantial?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    Early B. wrote: »
    Hey fellas --

    In plain English, I just want to know if it's worthwhile to consider "upgrading" from a 1080i TV to 1080p. How much better is the picture quality, if at all? Is this difference substantial?

    Like said, when talking about TV sets, 1080i to 1080p is quite different. Some like 1080i better than 720p and vice versa (I haven't really seen enough 1080i sets to comment myself). 1080p however is quite a lot better than 720p.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited November 2007
    Hey Early,

    I think it's all in the size of screen you wish too own, a 42" inch 1080i is fine. Where if you're thinking 60" then yes 1080p you can see the higher resolution. IMHO YMMV

    Speakers
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    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
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    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited November 2007
    rskarvan wrote: »
    What we really want is a dual format HD/BR 1080P upconverting player with 7.1 outputs for $100 to $200 and equip it with 10 free movies (5 BR and 5HD). That will solve the betamax problem.

    That's what I'm talk'in about :cool:
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited November 2007
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Hey Early,

    I think it's all in the size of screen you wish too own, a 42" inch 1080i is fine. Where if you're thinking 60" then yes 1080p you can see the higher resolution. IMHO YMMV

    I do agree.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2007
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Hey Early,

    I think it's all in the size of screen you wish too own, a 42" inch 1080i is fine. Where if you're thinking 60" then yes 1080p you can see the higher resolution. IMHO YMMV


    Oooohhh, OK. I get it now. Thanks for simplifying it for me. :)
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited November 2007
    Still no HD dvd, or BD dvd. Did, however need a new player and thought it might be nice to get a solid one. The brand new V2 line (2 weeks?) of Cambridge Audio's 540D, upconverts and looks stellar. I picked it up because I thought it played Redbook CD as-good/better than the 540C cd player, has HDMI, and should last until DVD's are dead.
    -Ignorance is strength -
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  • SKsolutions
    SKsolutions Posts: 1,820
    edited November 2007
    Back to your regularly scheduled **** measuring. . .
    -Ignorance is strength -
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