Your favorite small/bookshelf size speaker for rock?
Comments
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Just throwing some stuff out......
I upgraded my SB3's with Solen caps as using Sonicap's would have cost more than I paid for them. Lately, I've been thinking about putting something different in the high frequency circuit as Solen caps aren't noted for having the best sound up there. Maybe I'll try the Clarity caps someone here was raving about. That metal dome tweeter can get a bit bright at times and I think a better cap would help out.
Anyway, I listen to mostly rock and blues on mine, which are in my office powered with tube gear. I think they do rock very well, but I don't crank the volume to maximum as they are only a couple of feet from my ears. I also think they wouldn't be the best choice for a large room. One has to be careful on the amp used as one SS amp I had would allow the woofers to bottom out. I heard the same issue at a dealer once. He seemed kinda surprised when it happened. I quess he never turned up the volume much in that SS set up. Anyway, the tube amp driving them right now has never bottomed out the woofers. Tubes rule!
Mark, thanks for the link and I know what you mean. Just a good little speaker that puts out way more bass than it should. I've thought about grabbing a second pair, just because. It's a shame they stopped making them.
That's true Jesse, for music only, particularly in a small room, you really don't need a sub with them. It's an option rather than a necessity. I also happen to think they are a good rock speaker as well.
Maybe one of these days I can talk you into letting me send you my pair to work your magic on them too that you did (and are still going to) on yours?
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Then you should definitely get M5s placed vertically. They have a boundary compensation adjustment that curbs their output below 500 Hz to compensate for the natural lower frequency boost you will get from the speakers being on/in shelves/cases and/or close to the front wall behind it.
It's cabinet also has a flat front baffle with "virtual focused image geometry" which will also aid with shelf/case placement and/or reflective and/or narrow rooms.
You can find out more about all of that here:
http://nhthifi.com/2006/manuals/current/EvolutionUserGuide.pdf
particularly in sections 11.2 and 11.3
Edit - plus, they're sealed, which never hurts for shelf/case placement either.
The M5 is the best measuring speaker in terms of the most accuracy that I have ever seen thus far in HTM:
http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/evolution_ht.pdf
what would you say comparing your M5 and SB3? I found here that classic two comparable to M5.
Please see the link.
http://www.homeaudionews.com/2005/11/06/nht-classic-absolute-zero-and-two-review/
I also like to apply the F1nut idea that I can replace with Clarity caps on classic two later on. I'm afraid it might be like Honda Civic with Huge muffler -
what would you say comparing your M5 and SB3? I found here that classic two comparable to M5.
Please see the link.
http://www.homeaudionews.com/2005/11/06/nht-classic-absolute-zero-and-two-review/
I also like to apply the F1nut idea that I can replace with Clarity caps on classic two later on. I'm afraid it might be like Honda Civic with Huge muffler
FWIW, keep in mind, those comments were made by a NHT dealer with the obvious agenda of a "trade in" program.
My completely unbiased, totally neutral take on comparing them to each other is that M5 tops the Two in pretty much every parameter except for soundstaging and bass extension. A wider soundstage is the one thing I would actually give the edge to the Twos on. They also might have slightly deeper bass extension, but not much, if any, and really, either needs to be used with a sub or subs, even just for music IMO.
The Two can also image about as good as the M5 if the pair is set up perfectly (with slight toe-in) in an optimal well damped room for them, while the M5s are virtually foolproof to set up for great imaging any literally any room.
In terms of dynamics, it's no contest, the M5 absolutely crushes the Twos, which should particularly catch your attention since this is extremely important for rock music (and HT). If you wanna crank AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kiss, Ozzy, Van Halen, etc. loud enough to make your ears threaten to bleed, no problem at all with the M5s. They won't sweat it whatsoever, while the Twos might compress somewhat at higher levels by comparison.
And all of that is not even taking into account the more flexible room condition tuning and placement options of the M5s. For instance, on shelves, the M5 really is a much better choice because of it's boundary control. The M5s will sound great in any room or set up, while the Twos need to be in a more well damped, unreflective room.
They are both easy on the ears to listen to and a little "warmer" sounding than some of their other counterparts in their respective model product lines. For example, for some reason, the general consensus is that the M6s are a little brighter than the M5s, and the Threes/AZs are a little brighter than the Twos (which may be either good or bad, depending on your perspective). But they are both much more resolving than the SB-3s though, yet you can literally listen to either one all day long without ever getting any any "listener's fatigue".
Some intangibles are that the Two just flat out looks better IMO if aesthetics matter any, but they can be tricky to find a stand for (if you need some later) because of their rails on the bottom; whereas the M5s have an aesthetically matching pedestal stand it bolts to, the P5, which looks and functions superbly. Finally, if it matters any, the Two really doesn't have a perfectly matching CC speaker option (unless that is, you have a third stand mounted Two as the CC speaker), and there is simply not a great on-wall mountable surround option for it, while the M5 has the L5, a perfectly matching wall mountable speaker that can be used as surrounds. And of course, another horizontally mounted M5 as a CC speaker is as good a match as you can get for vertical M5 mains.:D
FWIW, in my office rig, I had SB-3s which were replaced by Threes, which were in turn replaced by M5s. The room is small, about 10' x 10' x 9' with glass on both sides (all glass on one side), and the placement required them being on/in bookshelves/cases right up against the front wall behind them, and the M5s sounded much better than either the Threes or SB-3s in this particular room and placement situation thanks to their more focused imaging and boundary control. As always, YMMV. -
That's true Jesse, for music only, particularly in a small room, you really don't need a sub with them. It's an option rather than a necessity. I also happen to think they are a good rock speaker as well.
Maybe one of these days I can talk you into letting me send you my pair to work your magic on them too that you did (and are still going to) on yours?
We can talk.
BTW, someone mentioned the AAD 2001 monitors and having heard them, I'd say they are quite worthy of consideration.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Here is a pic of my favorite JBL bookshelf. and a couple of pics of some very pretty corner horns.TroyD, not all JBLs have horns and bright tweeters. There is one older model that was probably one of the best "sleeper" buys in a long time, a 3-way from the L series, that is all I can remember... it was before the age of the "supertweeter". It was just an all-round good rock speaker.
I also have a set of JBL control 1s, 2500s, and PROIIIs (with upgraded woofers, for control monitoring), aside from the PROIIIs, they all have a sweeter top end than my PSBs, and the PSBs were considered "dark", so that goes to show you that you can't judge a book by it's cover. As far as BB dreck, if I am not mistaken, Polk LSi is sold at Fry's, Polk is also sold at Circuit City, and Martin Logan is sold at BB, and I wouldn't call Electrostats "dreck" by any means.
Poee7r,
There is a good chance that most of the rock music you plan to listen to was mastered on JBLs, so don't go bashing them so quickly... they are in many studios still, and used to be in EVERY studio, that is why I picked them...
Boston Acoustics does make a good bookie that is sold at some circuit cities, so it may not be hard to find... it comes in 4", 5 1/4", and 6" woofer sizes for the bookshelf models.
There is no rule that says good speakers have to cost a fortune, and a lot of rock music just doesn't need a super refined speaker. JBL, or BA may not be the best in the world, but it doesn't mean they can't rock out. (interestingly, this goes back to the old argument between the east coast and west coast sounds... You know, Stereophile did a recent review of the vintage Smaller Advents... but they reviewed them as if they were a NEW speaker... so compared them to modern offerings. They held up well...) Enough of that, it's no big deal if you don't like JBLs. Many speakers have a "house" sound that some people just don't like. JBL, they make speakers of all kinds... and they really did make some geat ones in the past, though not impressed by their modern consumer models (pro is another story, they have a great set of powered nearfield monitors, as does NHT
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
sturdy bookshelves required...
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FWIW, keep in mind, those comments were made by a NHT dealer with the obvious agenda of a "trade in" program.
My completely unbiased, totally neutral take on comparing them to each other is that M5 tops the Two in pretty much every parameter except for soundstaging and bass extension. A wider soundstage is the one thing I would actually give the edge to the Twos on. They also might have slightly deeper bass extension, but not much, if any, and really, either needs to be used with a sub or subs, even just for music IMO.
The Two can also image about as good as the M5 if the pair is set up perfectly (with slight toe-in) in an optimal well damped room for them, while the M5s are virtually foolproof to set up for great imaging any literally any room.
In terms of dynamics, it's no contest, the M5 absolutely crushes the Twos, which should particularly catch your attention since this is extremely important for rock music (and HT). If you wanna crank AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kiss, Ozzy, Van Halen, etc. loud enough to make your ears threaten to bleed, no problem at all with the M5s. They won't sweat it whatsoever, while the Twos might compress somewhat at higher levels by comparison.
And all of that is not even taking into account the more flexible room condition tuning and placement options of the M5s. For instance, on shelves, the M5 really is a much better choice because of it's boundary control. The M5s will sound great in any room or set up, while the Twos need to be in a more well damped, unreflective room.
They are both easy on the ears to listen to and a little "warmer" sounding than some of their other counterparts in their respective model product lines. For example, for some reason, the general consensus is that the M6s are a little brighter than the M5s, and the Threes/AZs are a little brighter than the Twos (which may be either good or bad, depending on your perspective). But they are both much more resolving than the SB-3s though, yet you can literally listen to either one all day long without ever getting any any "listener's fatigue".
Some intangibles are that the Two just flat out looks better IMO if aesthetics matter any, but they can be tricky to find a stand for (if you need some later) because of their rails on the bottom; whereas the M5s have an aesthetically matching pedestal stand it bolts to, the P5, which looks and functions superbly. Finally, if it matters any, the Two really doesn't have a perfectly matching CC speaker option (unless that is, you have a third stand mounted Two as the CC speaker), and there is simply not a great on-wall mountable surround option for it, while the M5 has the L5, a perfectly matching wall mountable speaker that can be used as surrounds. And of course, another horizontally mounted M5 as a CC speaker is as good a match as you can get for vertical M5 mains.:D
FWIW, in my office rig, I had SB-3s which were replaced by Threes, which were in turn replaced by M5s. The room is small, about 10' x 10' x 9' with glass on both sides (all glass on one side), and the placement required them being on/in bookshelves/cases right up against the front wall behind them, and the M5s sounded much better than either the Threes or SB-3s in this particular room and placement situation thanks to their more focused imaging and boundary control. As always, YMMV.
Okie, thanks for your patient and explaination. Let me start enjoy the M5 for this holiday season before the sales are over.
Please keep in mind to let me know in the future if you ever plan to part it out your SB3 from storage.
Thanks again.
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LSi9's. Hands down the best small speaker I've heard. As someone mentioned earlier the AR-2ax was an outstanding speaker. Loved the pair I had. Doubt you can find any in decient shape though.
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Polk 5 jrs later style !:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
Okie, thanks for your patient and explaination. Let me start enjoy the M5 for this holiday season before the sales are over.
Please keep in mind to let me know in the future if you ever plan to part it out your SB3 from storage.
Thanks again.
You're welcome. For your intended application and placement situation here, rock music from speakers on bookshelves, I honestly believe the M5 is the absolute best speaker for you that's out there on the market right now that you could possibly get, but I would suggest adding a sub or subs at some point too.
I even tried a pair of Revel Performa M22s in my office rig too since they also have a boundary control and a tweeter level adjustment (but they are still rear ported though, which does need some room behind it), and the M5s even topped them in that particular room and placement set up.
As for my SB-3s, I'm going to send them to Jesse for his mods hopefully:We can talk.
PM coming your way after this. -
Here is a pic of my favorite JBL bookshelf. and a couple of pics of some very pretty corner horns.
The first pic, wow, those are some serious monitors, I'll bet they sound HUGE! You need a theater for those!
