Your favorite small/bookshelf size speaker for rock?

2

Comments

  • PADZZ
    PADZZ Posts: 83
    edited November 2007
    RT55i, or for even smaller, rt25i.
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  • Dave38
    Dave38 Posts: 101
    edited November 2007
    Polk Monitor 5 series 2 or Polk RT-7's.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
    The Alpha B makes a good value rock speaker

    I had a pair of these for a bit. They were a little beat up, but got them with stands for like $50, so great speaker for that price!

    I'd say Lsi7s are the best for the price. . . or at least hope so as I just purchased a pair recently but won't have them for a bit.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • sporty dave
    sporty dave Posts: 2
    edited November 2007
    My old school R & R rig from the 70's was: 4 Advents, stacked & wired in parallel , hooked to a an SAE pre amp / tuner, connected to a really old macintosh tube amp
    (a stated 50 w per channel ) That was THE party set up for playing those old vinyl records and cassette tapes at the party house. Currently I like the Monitor 10 s too
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  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited November 2007
    Cerwin Vega...





    ......oh you said smalll...sorry
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
    jakelm wrote: »
    Cerwin Vega...





    ......oh you said smalll...sorry


    "that sound good" was also a criteria.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited November 2007
    shack wrote: »
    "that sound good" was also a criteria.

    True.. My Bose...I mean my bad...
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
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  • dipiazza
    dipiazza Posts: 363
    edited November 2007
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I LOVE bookshelf loudspeakers. You might entertain NHT for a modestly priced, solid low end bookend. The SB series is very nice.


    My Brother has the NHT SB3 bookshelves, running off the outlaw 2ch reciever. He loves em and listens to alot of rock. I havent had much time with them but i liked em from what ive heard.
    Terps Swimming!
    HT Setup
    TV: Vizio VX32L
    Reciever: Pioneer VSX-D914
    HD-DVD Player: Toshiba HD-A2
    Fronts: Polk R50s
    Surounds: Polk R30s
    Center: Polk R20's
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39PCi

    2CH Setup
    Integrated: Onix SP3 Tube
    CD Player: Sony CDP-CX355
    Speakers: Onix Strata Mini in PR Finish
    Signal Cable: Classic Speaker, Analog 1 IC

    Headphones
    Grado SR 60, Bang & Olufsen A8, Shure e3

    Other Stuff in Use
    Onix xls, Dual Onix x-subs, Onix Ref .5, Dahlquist M903, Teac A-1D, Marantz 1060
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
    dipiazza wrote: »
    My Brother has the NHT SB3 bookshelves, running off the outlaw 2ch reciever. He loves em and listens to alot of rock. I havent had much time with them but i liked em from what ive heard.

    That's a setup I would like to hear.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,779
    edited November 2007
    NHT SB3 gets my vote. Upgrade the caps and they get even better. Feed them with tube gear and enjoy!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • redbullet
    redbullet Posts: 66
    edited November 2007
    Poee7R wrote: »
    I'm feeling the need to try some new speakers. Hoping to get some opinions on bookshelf speakers that sound good with rock. I listen to alot of different music, but for the most part it falls back to rock. From Seger to Alice to Gwar back to the beatles, Floyd etc etc.

    So im gonna focus on speakers that excel in rock performance, if there is such a thing. Not to sure about budget, but will definately be looking for used. Will be powered by a hybrid intergrated. In my office elevated to about ear level, sitting. Good ic's and speaker cable's. Working on a better source also, but speaker's first.

    Ive listened/owned B&W 603/600i, Polk RTi 4/6, Paradigm Mini-mon's and various older "70's" type's. And so far for rock i keep leaning towards the Paradigm's. Very potent little bookshelf speaker.

    I see alot of people refer to CV and the like for rock, but there has got to be better so spill it.


    Dave

    Reference 3a MM De Capo nothing will come close , trust me I been through countless monitors
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,779
    edited November 2007
    Reference 3a MM De Capo nothing will come close , trust me I been through countless monitor

    How about some Revel Gems?



    Anyway, just looking at paper.....

    NHT SB3:

    Used price - $300.00, new was $600.00.
    Bottom end - 38Hz
    Efficiency - 86dB
    Design - Acoustic Suspension

    Reference 3a MM De Capo:

    Used price - $1200.00, new is $2500.00.
    Bottom end - 42Hz
    Efficiency - 92dB
    Design - Ported


    Like I said, just paper, draw your own conclusions.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited November 2007
    That NHT speaker is probably one of the only ones that I would consider for rocking out. I have heard some of their other, newer, models... very close to studio monitors, not "fun" to listen to.

    The SB3 has been one of those speakers that's name gets kicked around a lot in this kind of thread. Good speaker, never heard it with rock, but it can't be too bad. Avoid the new Classic series though.
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  • brijenjas
    brijenjas Posts: 311
    edited November 2007
    Yashu wrote: »
    Avoid the new Classic series though.

    Why do you say this, is there a problem with the NHT classic series?
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  • dant
    dant Posts: 8
    edited November 2007
    Another vote for the RT7's. I auditioned a pair back in 1997. I wish I had bought them.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
    brijenjas wrote:
    is there a problem with the NHT classic series?

    Not in my opinion. I've heard the Classic Zero and the Classic Two and I think they are very nice small bookshelves.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • MKZ
    MKZ Posts: 1,068
    edited November 2007
    You guys make me tempting to get the NHT. Is SB3 becomes Classic Two or Classic Three? SB3 is better than both?
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited November 2007
    MKZ wrote: »
    You guys make me tempting to get the NHT. Is SB3 becomes Classic Two or Classic Three? SB3 is better than both?

    Actually, the Two is more of the SB-3s direct descendant than the Three is. Here is what NHT's chief engineer had to say about the difference between the Classics and Super Audios:

    Warning, shameless plug ahead

    All of the woofers in the Classic series that are used in 3-ways have aluminum cones. Both of the woofers used in 2-ways have PP cones. All of the drivers in the line are manufactured in China. We did a ton of development work using FEA for the magnetics and mechanical issues. We ended up using virtually zero off the shelf components in all of the drivers. All of the drivers have shorting rings to reduce flux modulation, even the Absolute Zero. All of the woofers (except the 10" in the Four) have frames made of BMC, the same material used in the XdS baffle. The frames are about 4 times as stiff as the frames in the previous line (Super Audio). The baffles for all of the speakers are about twice as thick as the SA cabinets had. This allows us to use much larger radii on them to smooth out the off axis response and reduces the level of baffle acoustic radiation due to the increase in stiffness. There is a lot of cool stuff in this product.
    __________________
    Jack Hidley
    Director of Engineering NHT

    The Twos have pretty much the same tweeter as the SB-3s (whereas the Threes are three ways and have the dome array). It is IMO "warmer" sounding than the Threes are, but yet still noticeably more detailed than the SB-3s are (they could sound a little "tubby" IMO).

    The SB-3s will have a little lower bass extension, but in pretty much every other parameter and category, the Two is superior. It's in a whole other league entirely in imaging, soundstaging, and resolution. The drivers, and especially the cabinetry have been significantly upgraded.

    Edit - click here for a look "inside" of the Twos:

    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/nht-classic-2/page-2

    As previously mentioned, the Classic Series "Special Dark" finish is being blown out right now at half price, and you can get Twos for like $300 per pair new from fully authorized dealers.

    If you really want a NHT bookshelf for rock music though, get the just discontinued Evolution M6, which is currently being blown out for half price. You can now get them new from authorized dealers for like $300 each. It is Stereophile Class A rated FWIW, and is fantastic for rock music. It will play extremely loud with no congestion whatsoever and images like the devil himself. Plus with it's Virtual Focused Image Geometry and boundary compensation adjustment feature, it will play well in literally any room and/or placement situation (for smaller rooms, get the M5). However it was designed for, and needs to be driven in conjunction with a sub or subs.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,779
    edited November 2007
    From looking at the crossovers in the Classic Two, I'd have to say they are a major upgrade from the SB3. However, I found that a simple cap upgrade in the SB3 made the speaker much better than stock.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited November 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    From looking at the crossovers in the Classic Two, I'd have to say they are a major upgrade from the SB3. However, I found that a simple cap upgrade in the SB3 made the speaker much better than stock.


    I still have my pair. For no more money than they'd bring in a sell, I just can't bear to part with them. ;)

    Interestingly enough, according to HTM's measurements, the SB-3s actually had deeper bass extension than their three way tower counterparts, the ST-4s did, despite the fact that the St-4s also had an 8" woofer (-3 Db at 54 Hz vs -3 db at 59 Hz): :eek:

    http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/SA_Review_HTMagazine.pdf
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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited November 2007
    is there a problem with the NHT classic series?

    Bright. I suppose it's the latest trend... bright is another (review)man's "air and detail". Reviewers like bright speakers, so speaker makers make them brighter, and so on... SACD only made the competition for the brightest speaker EVER more HOT... err... bright.

    They moved the tweeter to the traditional top position and changed the shape of the baffle to make the speaker look like ****, but to also give it a flatter response and make it sound more like a studio monitor (they make studio nearfield monitors).

    It has been proven that tweeter off axis performance going up and down is waaay different than going side to side. I would probably prefer the tweeter to be on the bottom, but you can't exactly turn the new ones upside down... they probably wouldn't work right that way anyhow.

    The SB-3s looked cool too... unorthodox and that woofer has "bass" written all over it.

    I know the classic zeros basically NEED a sub, but the 2s probably would do alright on their own. I am warming up to the idea of LSi 9s, if you have the power to drive them, since it sounds like you want to spend about a grand.
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  • Music Joe
    Music Joe Posts: 459
    edited November 2007
    A bit of extra bright may balance a slightly dark GFA-5500.
    "The Web is a monoblog"
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,779
    edited November 2007
    Just throwing some stuff out......

    I upgraded my SB3's with Solen caps as using Sonicap's would have cost more than I paid for them. Lately, I've been thinking about putting something different in the high frequency circuit as Solen caps aren't noted for having the best sound up there. Maybe I'll try the Clarity caps someone here was raving about. That metal dome tweeter can get a bit bright at times and I think a better cap would help out.

    Anyway, I listen to mostly rock and blues on mine, which are in my office powered with tube gear. I think they do rock very well, but I don't crank the volume to maximum as they are only a couple of feet from my ears. I also think they wouldn't be the best choice for a large room. One has to be careful on the amp used as one SS amp I had would allow the woofers to bottom out. I heard the same issue at a dealer once. He seemed kinda surprised when it happened. I quess he never turned up the volume much in that SS set up. Anyway, the tube amp driving them right now has never bottomed out the woofers. Tubes rule!

    Mark, thanks for the link and I know what you mean. Just a good little speaker that puts out way more bass than it should. I've thought about grabbing a second pair, just because. It's a shame they stopped making them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • MKZ
    MKZ Posts: 1,068
    edited November 2007
    marker wrote: »
    Actually, the Two is more of the SB-3s direct descendant than the Three is. Here is what NHT's chief engineer had to say about the difference between the Classics and Super Audios:


    __________________
    Jack Hidley
    Director of Engineering NHT

    The Twos have pretty much the same tweeter as the SB-3s (whereas the Threes are three ways and have the dome array). It is IMO "warmer" sounding than the Threes are, but yet still noticeably more detailed than the SB-3s are (they could sound a little "tubby" IMO).

    The SB-3s will have a little lower bass extension, but in pretty much every other parameter and category, the Two is superior. It's in a whole other league entirely in imaging, soundstaging, and resolution. The drivers, and especially the cabinetry have been significantly upgraded.

    Edit - click here for a look "inside" of the Twos:

    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/nht-classic-2/page-2

    As previously mentioned, the Classic Series "Special Dark" finish is being blown out right now at half price, and you can get Twos for like $300 per pair new from fully authorized dealers.

    If you really want a NHT bookshelf for rock music though, get the just discontinued Evolution M6, which is currently being blown out for half price. You can now get them new from authorized dealers for like $300 each. It is Stereophile Class A rated FWIW, and is fantastic for rock music. It will play extremely loud with no congestion whatsoever and images like the devil himself. Plus with it's Virtual Focused Image Geometry and boundary compensation adjustment feature, it will play well in literally any room and/or placement situation (for smaller rooms, get the M5). However it was designed for, and needs to be driven in conjunction with a sub or subs.

    okay, I guess the sales are over by now. I missed the opportunity to grab those classic series. I saw M5 and M6 still available on Audiogon. Actually I prefer smaller speaker since I am planning to place on actual bookshelf not on stands. I will keep on searching for few more days. If I won't find any, I might try M5 or LSi9. Is that make sense or just giving up the chances? Thanks for helpful info.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2007
    If I ever went back to a bookshelf--it would be the Paradigm Reference Studio 40.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,019
    edited November 2007
    Studio 40 is kinda big for a bookshelf,no?

    No mention of Pearsall's AAD's? Would like to get an ear on those puppy's.
    Though also big for a bookshelf.The Epos is a great all around bookie at a price anyone can live with.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited November 2007
    The Paradigm Studio 20 v3/4s were on my short list of bookshelf speakers, but never could close the deal on them for a good price. I've seen them for $350 on CL and such from time to time.

    Totem Rainmakers, Polk Lsi7s, ACI Sapphire III's, Thiel SCS, NHT SB3, Usher S-520, Totem Model One, were all also on my list.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2007
    tonyb wrote: »
    Studio 40 is kinda big for a bookshelf,no?

    No mention of Pearsall's AAD's? Would like to get an ear on those puppy's.
    Though also big for a bookshelf.The Epos is a great all around bookie at a price anyone can live with.

    They're on the large side, but still require stands.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2007
    steveinaz wrote: »
    They're on the large side, but still require stands.

    Yes, they are very much like the RT55is which are very large but are considered bookshelf speakers and require stands.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited November 2007
    MKZ wrote: »
    Actually I prefer smaller speaker since I am planning to place on actual bookshelf not on stands.

    Then you should definitely get M5s placed vertically. They have a boundary compensation adjustment that curbs their output below 500 Hz to compensate for the natural lower frequency boost you will get from the speakers being on/in shelves/cases and/or close to the front wall behind it.

    It's cabinet also has a flat front baffle with "virtual focused image geometry" which will also aid with shelf/case placement and/or reflective and/or narrow rooms.

    You can find out more about all of that here:

    http://nhthifi.com/2006/manuals/current/EvolutionUserGuide.pdf

    particularly in sections 11.2 and 11.3

    Edit - plus, they're sealed, which never hurts for shelf/case placement either.

    The M5 is the best measuring speaker in terms of the most accuracy that I have ever seen thus far in HTM:

    http://nhthifi.com/2006/press/reviews/evolution_ht.pdf
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