Amp quandry...what do I do!!!
pearsall001
Posts: 5,114
I hadn't planned on picking up a 2 channel amp until round Christmas. I had my heart set on a Mac MC402 or a MC252. They've always been my dream amp if ever there was one. Any..who I was out today & I just happened to stop in my local B&W/Rotel dealer. I've dealt with them before & they're really nice guys. I walk in the one showroom & spot the Rotel RB1090 (380x2) powering a gorgeous pair of B&W 802D's. They sounded superb!!! Tony even put some vinyl on for me which was wonderful. Anyway, I say Tony Rotel doesn't make the RB1090 anymore. I was correct... they have 5 left in stock & are going for $1600. Now I'm tempted, is it a good deal do you think. I know the RB1090 gets nothing but fabulous reviews. It's a savings of about $4k over my dream MC402 Mac amp. What a pickle I'm in. Suggestions needed!!!
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
Post edited by pearsall001 on
Comments
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In all honesty, I say start saving for your dream amp. Unless flipping gear and trying new flavors is half the fun of this hobby for you.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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+1 to what ZB said. Next purchases I make are for life.........probably......most likely......pretty sure
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
I agree with Jason for two reasons:
1.-If you buy it new no matter how good the deal is, if you decide to sell you'll probably not get close to what you paid.
2.-It won't sound as good in your rig, unless you buy a TT
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***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***
2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
SOPAThank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman -
Add another vote as well. I will be purchasing some reference gear by Audio Research and I would not be happy with anything less. Hang on and save a little more.Michael
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60° -
Ok Rotel and Mac are not in the same league except the 1090 can hang in there with the big boys. It's a fantastic amp and has enough power to drive just about anything well. Now depending on the preamp and speakers you own or will own, will decide if gooing with the Rotel is smarter then spending the extra cash on the Mac. I'm also a huge Mac fan and want nothing more then to own a beautiful 2 channel mac system with some Kick **** Dyn's or B&W's. Now on the flip side I have installed and went to listen to the 1090 many many times and left thinking" this is in it's own Rotel class".
As far as a good deal new??? Hell yeah. 1600.00, think about it for a minute. Used your looking close to that or as cheap as 1100.00. So for brand new I'm all about it.
Mac gear is the bomb for 2 channel and theater. Once you own it, there really isn't a reason to buy anything else. They drive everything and lose nothing.
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Pear -- WTF???
It really depends on how much you want the Mac gear. Do you want it $4,000 as much as the Rotel? Not having heard either amp, will the Mac sound significantly better than the Rotel? I doubt it.
A bird in the hand, I say. Go for the Rotel and use the other $4k that you would have spent on the Mac on your dream speakers.
Also, I think there are two forms of "dream gear": the kind you can barely afford, and the kind that you would only consider buying them if you made a boatload of cash.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
My vote is to go for your dream. There will always be good deals along the way but they aren't a Mac. Don't settle.
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It's a Mac attack.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
blow your wad on an amp now.. the Mac gear is overrated :rolleyes:
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
danger boy wrote: »blow your wad on an amp now.. the Mac gear is overrated :rolleyes:
Sorry but for 4K.............I'd have to agree."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul! -
Take time to hear different amps in a room with Mac amps on the same system just different amps, to listen to the difference yourself. Go by what your ears tell you, not what the label says.
Good Luck but buy what you want don't waste money on penny anti upgrading,
engtazengtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
There's a 252 on A-gon that you can probably grab for 3k. There's also a 402 for 3800. You could always go vintage and pick up a 7270 for $1200-1800. The only negative to the vintage amps is the lower dampening, which may or may not be a problem depending on the speakers you choose."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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As owners of the RB-1090 from the flea market, this amp will not disappoint!Home Theater
Chane A3rx-c's, A2rc-c, A1rx-c's|Miller & Kreisel V-125's|Sony XBR65X810C 65" 4K LED TV|
Earthquake Cinenova Grande-5|Pioneer Elite - VSX-84TXSi-AVR|TRIPPLITE LCR2400|
Ultrasonic Amp Stand|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables|
2 - Channel
Polk RTA 12c's w/RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills resistors (full mod)|Turntable|
Anthem MCA 2|Acurus Act 3 Pre Pro|Parasound P/Ph 100|Pioneer Elite N-30|Adcom GDA600|
Premier Rack|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables| -
Go for it. If you liked the amp ...but used might be a good idea in case you change your mind.Sharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch
Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door. -
I agree with Jason for two reasons:
1.-If you buy it new no matter how good the deal is, if you decide to sell you'll probably not get close to what you paid.
2.-It won't sound as good in your rig, unless you buy a TT
I must admit the vinyl sounded very seductive played thru the RB1090 & the B&W 802D's. B&W does make some mighty fine stuff. This "beast" has p;enty of power for anything you can throw at it.
For $1600 new the RB1090 won't lose much value on the used market. They hold their value very well. That's one of the points that just might sway me here. This way if I do decide on the Mac down the road, the sale of the RB1090 will really help me out.
But then again, maybe the RB1090 just might be a keeper for a looooooong time!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
I've read up on this beast and have checked out some specs, damping factor >1000, high current beast. EFF the Mac for now. $1600 new, you bring it home throw it in your rig, if it can clear that James Taylor cut with the tympani shots that bottom out on every other amp you've had in your rig then you have the winner. Besides if the Mac is $4k more are you getting four times better sound or are you getting 4 times better eye candy. I don't know about you Phil but I can't hear through my eyes and I listen to music with my eyes closed . . . if it doesn't work out in your rig, you should be able to get what you paid for a one month old beast that has gotten rave reviews and looks pretty cool too!
Also think about what you can do with the extra $4K!~ If I didn't have in the pipeline what I have, I would be giving this beast a try in my rig hell for $1600 that is worth the cost for a second rig's amp. Don't forget the new price on the beast is $2K so you are already making out. -
If you want to sample all kinds of amps, then by all means buy the Rotel. I've sampled many amps, but have always been set on one dream amp. I would already own the dream amp if I hadn't purchased all the other amps in between, but if I hadn't purchased the lesser amps, then I would not know how sweet my dream amp actually is.
How much upgrading do you want to do? You waste less money if you buy your dream amp first. As a warning though, if you are like me, you will get upgraditis and want to test the sound elsewhere.
You have two choices.
Either be an aspiring amp **** like me, or settle down and live the dream. -
Pear -- did you buy the Rotel amp today?HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
Solid,
What is your dream amp? -
My dream amp for the time being is an H2O Audio M250SA. I can blame Zero for this audio infatuation. The more I read, the more I want one. It's arguably Class D Perfect . . . heaven waiting.
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/model-m250sa.html -
SolidSqual wrote: »My dream amp for the time being is an H2O Audio M250SA. I can blame Zero for this audio infatuation. The more I read, the more I want one. It's arguably Class D Perfect . . . heaven waiting.
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/model-m250sa.html
I am waiting for Gaara to step in, he is our resident class D afficionado.
They sound like a winner, no pun intended. I read the 6moons review. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/h2o/m250_2.html.
I can't speak for the amps, but the reviewer does have taste when it comes to his speakers
Venom -
Didn't Zero also sell that amplifier? I bet it was a life changing event for him too.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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Pear -- did you buy the Rotel amp today?
No, I didn't Early. In fact I called another Rotel dealer out of curiousity to see if they had any RB1090's left. He told me they just sold the last one they had about a week ago.
He offered me a Classe' CA 210 (200x2) for $1900, a customer trade in. He said it would run circles around the Rotel. I don't buy that at all. Sometimes you have to wonder about sales guys. I haven't listened to it yet so I really don't know.
From what I've read & heard as it was driving a gorgeous pair of B&W 802D's, that Rotel is one hell of a "beast" amp. I'm sure the Classe' is one fine amp also but I'm not big on believing what the salesman is trying to tell me. I'm still kicking things around."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
While those Mac blue meters are somewhat addictive, I've heard Mac amps I absolutely loved, and I've heard ones that I was not impressed with. The last time I really did a direct comparison was when the Phase Linear 400's came out, and I can't even remember which Mac amp was used for the comparison. I thought the Phase Linear 400 was better, and I took it home.
But again, $4000 extra for an awesome set of blue meters, I won't call you crazy for going for it. Lifes short, enjoy the big blue meters while you can DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
While those Mac blue meters are somewhat addictive, I've heard Mac amps I absolutely loved, and I've heard ones that I was not impressed with. The last time I really did a direct comparison was when the Phase Linear 400's came out, and I can't even remember which Mac amp was used for the comparison. I thought the Phase Linear 400 was better, and I took it home.
But again, $4000 extra for an awesome set of blue meters, I won't call you crazy for going for it. Lifes short, enjoy the big blue meters while you can
I owned two Phase Linear amps in the mid 80s and they beat any Mac I heard back then. Come to think of it I even liked the Crown amps better. -
You liked the Crown amps better? Was that pre-alien abduction or the subsequent joining of Club Polk?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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I had a Rotel amp with the damping factor >1000 rating and it could not control the woofers. I replaced it with a tube amp that has no problem controling them, hmmmmmmmmm!
Actually, a semi wise;) guy here once told me that anything over 200 wasn't needed and there is a thing as too much damping. He spoke the truth.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Didn't Zero also sell that amplifier? I bet it was a life changing event for him too.
Hilarious!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I wouldn't doubt that the Classe would run circles around the Rotel.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
I had a Rotel amp with the damping factor >1000 rating and it could not control the woofers. I replaced it with a tube amp that has no problem controling them, hmmmmmmmmm!
Actually, a semi wise;) guy here once told me that anything over 200 wasn't needed and there is a thing as too much damping. He spoke the truth.
What Rotel amp did you have? The RB1090 is pretty much head & shoulders above the other Rotel amps. It is in a class all of it's own. Having control over the bass is one of it's many strong attributes.
Another fellow on a different forum posted the Classe CA210 specs. If they're correct then the sales man was trying to pull a fast one. Here's his findings: 8ohm/100w - 1%THD@1Khz and 4ohm/200w - 1%THD@1Khz. If they're correct then I don't see how it would run rings around the Rotel.
My concern is that a low powered amp (no matter how good) is not putting out enough juice for my speakers. My last amp (Van Alstine OmegaStar EX 220x2) is very highly rated as being a very good amp. It couldn't handle certain passages at a moderate to hi volumn (not even close to being ear piercing) without severe clipping. In my book I need power & high current to really make the AAD 2001 monitors sing."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
