Sub placement

I have a small square room and my tv/receiver is placed in a corner. The fronts are on stands beside the TV and the surrounds are mounted on the wall in the left and right corners.

This is a simple diagram if it turns out (F=tv/fronts, L/R=surrounds, =sign are doors).

L
F
| =
| |
= |
+
R

Question: where can I put the sub? There isn't much room behind the TV stand so I prefer to put it under the a surround pointing back at the front.

Is this a good idea? Or should the sub always sit near the centre, facing out?

What type of wall is best for a sub? The F-R wall is an inside wall with a large door, whereas the F-L wall is an outside wall with brick and a mantle.

Thanks for any help.

Kyle
Post edited by kmccrindle on

Comments

  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited October 2002
    The simple answer would to try placing it in different areas and hear what sounds best. A good deep quality sub can be placed in many locations. If the sub it not very large/deep sounding then it is better to put it near the front stage so the sub effects attach themselves to the monitor. Placeing it in a corner will give you an extra bass boost. Putting it to close to your equipment can disturb the quality of the units. Sometimes it just depends on the acoustics of the room itself. So move it around and seat in your watching position and hear how it sounds. Hope this helps.
    Welcome to the forum!!!! What equipment/sub do you have? :)
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited October 2002
    Eddie Rabbit speaketh the truth, best bet (at least musically) is on your front stage, preferrably between your mains. Corner loading will definatley give you added 'boom'.

    If you have the connection length available, place the sub at your listening area, put on some bass heavy tracks, and 'crawl' around the room. Where you feel you hear the best bass, try the sub there, and sit in your sweet spot, and get your listen on.

    Not foolproof by any means, but I've had it work before...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,356
    edited October 2002
    Crawl around the room o waaaaaaa!!!

    Dude not rippin your post but I just visualised someone crawling around there room trying to figure out where the best bass responce was........damn funny stuff man,I almost fell out of my chair.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited October 2002
    It is a funny visual, but surely you of all people have heard about this technique?

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,403
    edited October 2002
    I have heard of it, but I never tried it. Can you say it works? Always seemed a little weird to me, how could the thing making the sound sitting where I should be, sound best when I am where it is suppose to be?
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,356
    edited October 2002
    I hear OF it but never tried it.I modify this type of technic with walking around the room with a SPL meter to find peaks and dips.Sub placement can be a all day afair.Sometimes it's just the seating that needs to be adjusted.Depending what your sitting in ,peak or dip.

    The crawling thing is a funny one,I'm not sure what would work better.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited October 2002
    Well, crawling in the sense that you will stop, sit, and listen. Perhaps 'creep' would have a been a better word to use.

    I think point of the excersize is to get a rough determination of how long your bass 'waves' are, find peaks/dips, and help determine the distance your sub needs to be from your listening area.

    Are you A or C weighted when you check for peaks on the SPL meter? Just curious.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Polk-a-dweeb Posts: 5,860
    edited October 2002
    Russman is right, don't knock it until you have tried it! (Geeze, I can't believe I said that:lol: )

    kmccrindle,
    Don't worry about which direction the sub actually points, low frequency sound is non-directional.

    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
  • kmccrindle
    kmccrindle Posts: 3
    edited October 2002
    Scott: I have the RM6600 satelites, PSW250, and an H/K 120 amp. The H/K is a great piece....and big....I had to drill my cabinet to make it fit.

    For anyone's information, the FutureShop in canada (bought by Best Buy last year) is selling off their 6600's for C$699. That's what I bought mine for at boxing week. I can't imagine getting better speakers for that money.

    Thanks all for the tips on placement - I was mostly interested in the bass effect of a corner or wall. Also wasn't sure if a heavy brick wall would dampen the sub, compared to an inside wall.

    I'll probably try it in both places and 'feel' it out.

    Kyle
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,356
    edited October 2002
    I use C weighted.k your word choice threw me off of what you where getting at.Yes this is the correct technic I use to find peaks and dips in a given room.It works.Sub location is found using this.......good job Russ and thanks for the Laugh!!!!;)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,945
    edited October 2002
    Just out of curiousity as that's how I set my sub up, are you saying that Russ's method is invalid or do you just find the terminology humorous?

    The though of Russ low-crawling is kinda funny...

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,356
    edited October 2002
    The terminology made me laugh.....the technic is correct,I use it as well,but when Russ wrote "CRAWL" I was drinking a Coke and I almost spit it all over my monitor.I got visions of army crawling around your livingroom/listening room trying to find those peaks and dips.........WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

    I 'll give Russ this.......he can come up with some super funny stuff,even when he isn't trying to..........Thumbs up for "CRAWLING"........i CAN'T EVEN SIDE STEP THAT COMMENT.......I so love it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,403
    edited October 2002
    Russman and I DID mean to get on your hands and knees

    http://www.proaudiorx.com/subwooferplacement.htm

    ". Actually, it's best to get on your hands and knees and crawl around with your ear to the floor."

    http://www.avgateway.com/harley/harley02.shtml

    "Crawl around the floor on your hands and knees (make sure the neighbors aren’t watching)"

    http://www.smr-archive.com/forum_2/messages/950.shtml

    http://www.audio-etc.net/articles/integratingsubwooferwithroom.htm

    http://www.crystalaudio.com/tips_positioning.cfm

    These were just the first hits on my search, this is nothing new and appears to be well known.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2002
    I don't crawl or creep.. but i sometimes sit on the floor for a different audio experience.. or even lay on the floor too. but only when i'm drunk. lol
    Naw, i have my sub in the right rear.. try that kmccrindle. if you're looking for addded bass.. that will do it. it did for me. i originally had my sub underneath the TV in a open box wall unit. it was okay, but it lacked oomph.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • mandskri
    mandskri Posts: 2
    edited December 2002
    Interesting discussion on sub placement! Think of it this way: if you can see someone's reflection in a mirror, then they can see you. Reflected waves of sound pass through other waves as they bounce around the room. In some places, certain frequencies constructively interfer (too loud) while other frequencies destructively interfer (too soft). But no matter what paths the various waves took to get to that position in the room, reversing the directions of all the waves has them returning to the source (speaker) with the same phase relationship they had at the position of interest. You can take advantage of this symmetry by putting the source (sub) at your usual listening postion and then put your ear or SPL meter or microphone and RTA at possible places for your sub. Obviously, the phase for all bass frequencies leaving the sub (which is sitting at the sweet spot) are correct. Chances are, there are places in the room where the reflections' phase relationships are acceptable (no complete destructive or constructive interfence.) How would you know if you found that good spot? The bass will sound balanced with the rest of the music (you may want to listen to the music with good headphones to know what the correct level of the bass relative to the other music is.) So now, putting the sub at that spot should result in the same decent phase relationships at the listening position. Walla! However, it may not sound great in other places people might sit and there's no guarantee that any of the possible places to locate the sub will have good phase relations for the reflections. I'll be setting up my new home theater soon and plan on using this placement method. Afton Alton thinks enough of the technique to put it in his Handbook of Acoustics which is a must read if you're starting a home theater or listening room. Hope that helps end the mystery.
  • jdavy
    jdavy Posts: 380
    edited December 2002
    I have mine in the front on the corner. Sounds fine and does not bother the Sony tV.