What would you do???

mantis

What up everyone???

The format war is in full effect. Everything is going HDMI, and companies are releasing there receivers and preamps. I have HD DVD and cable with HDMI and I'm going to add Blue Ray very soon. Currently I own a Rotel rsp1068 preamp which as you know has no hdmi switching. So I'm thinking of a preamp upgrade.

I have been following the Rotel rsp1069 which to me is a disappointment. They released it with HDMI version 1.1. I know that really all you need right now but thats just the thing. What if Verizon Vios goes 1080p and HD goes HD Dolby? Like next year or in a few months?? So thats just the start of it.

As most of you know receivers are already been 1.0 1.1 1.2 and now 1.3a HDMI standard. NAD has released there new receiver(which is killer) with HDMI 1.3a. I think Rotel missed the bus with there new preamp.But like I said for to use it today, there really isn't any problem. HD dolby and DTS will pass and play over HDMI with the player decoding it and sending it PCM.Ok cool but I think I'd rather be current out of the box then be behind before I buy.

So B&K has a new preamp coming and there is very limited info on it. I have heard it's new from the ground up. I also heard they really hit a home run with it. So waiting for that is in the cards. Also I'm sure NAD is going to release a new Preamp to go along with there new receiver. Most othere companies that I would like to own are like Rotel, just out of date right now.

So what do you guys think about all this madness going on right now? In the Install world I don't have any problems as most people use receivers. Pioneer Elite basically is all I install anymore with the Yamahas and Sony once in awhile. They are all up to date.

Dan

MikeC78

I beleive it's all marketing, companies making us to beleive we need all these fancy HDMI specs. I think it's all ridiculous if you ask me

I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX-74 HDMI 1.1 AVR. It currently serves my purpose and send out all the newest HD sound via HDMI.

I find the new Integra 9.8 pre that just came out pretty interesting. By the time I'm ready to purchase though, I'm sure something better will be out.

m00npie

MikeC78 wrote: »

I believe it's all marketing, companies making us to believe we need all these fancy HDMI specs. I think it's all ridiculous if you ask me

Yep, I'm sticking with Denon 4306 for at least another year or more. The new 4308 seems nice, but it, and other AVR's don't seem to be worth throwing down another 2K +

If anything, I’ll upgrade my first gen Toshiba before I touch the AVR.

olilugo

So here is my point of view, if you are in the market for a new AVR, I think it is well worth just waiting one more year, in my opinion, the idea of having one HDMI cable to replace 5 to 7 cables is very appealing. However sooner or later reviews will come out to challange or support the Marketing hype. Another year and hopefully all brands will have a chance to get their arms around the new technology and produce products that have less bugs if you will.
If you already have an AVR, I would think you already spent the money on the AVR and cables. so why upgrade again I would wait for 2 -3 years to properly justtify your investment.
For the people that like to have the latest, what can you say... This are existing times go for it.

Last I will agree with mantis, rotel has missed the buss in a big way. I was reading some post on another forum, and Rotel(/ or somone realed to Rotel/or some doing the work Rotel should be doing Hell I don't care who it was) just published a survey asking the readers what they thought was the most important features today... needles to say HDMI 1.3a was at the top, HD sound, lossless format support and so on... I guess everyone at Rotel have been on vacation for the last two years....

venomclan

Can someone please tell me how HD sound compares with Dolby Digital? I usually hate mixing audio and video together, and for the video side, I would avoid HDMI switching and just right into the tv anyway. I have been told by a video technician that DVI is far superior to HDMI on the video side. people want HDMI so they can combine audio and video, but at a sacrifice to quality.

As for eliminating wires, I would rather have superior quality and the extra connection. But that's me.

I heard that HDMI 1.4 is in development. When they figure out what they are gonna do, then we buy.
Venom

auto_pilot

Heres' my take for what its worth...

My AVR is 1.1...but capable of accepting up to 1.3, just not sound formats. However, my TV is 1080i only...so it doesn't matter to me that the new formats go up to 1080 p, my PLASMA will never render it. That being said, I would have to spend another $3K to get 1080p and move my plasma to another room...That simply was not an option. I know in 5-6 years, this mess will sort itself out, and then I'll consider an upgrade.

In addition, from what I understand, I can get the Loseless Sound formats via analog cables, or changing the out put of my future HD DVD player to PCM, and voila! IThere should be no difference in sound quality from HDMI versus Analog Outs. In essence, I can have the new loseless formats...I know it means more wires, but I really don't care as long as I can keep them all organized. And...I frequent the Sound and Vision forum, and some are of the opinion that the new loseless formats aren't that much better...And I've also read that it will depend a lot on the quality of your speakers to really hear the difference.

With that being said...My AVR can handle what's coming over the next 5 years (less they change all outputs to HDMI only )...but that is doubtful. And once the format wars are settled...I will make sure to buy the player that has analog outs so I can have HD sound formats...And wait to see over the next 5-6 years to see if its worth upgrading.

shadowofnight

Just make sure whatever you buy has firmware that is flashable ( com port/ethernet/etc ) AND the company has a history of providing those updates on a regular basis. Just check their support web page to see how they handled previous models. I met the co-founder who actually invented the HDMI interface ( Jano Banks )

" Prior to Radiient, Mr. Banks held key technical and management positions at Silicon Image, where he co-invented the highly successful consumer electronics hi-definition audio-video digital interconnect known as HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface). This standard has been widely adopted across the consumer electronics industry, appearing in most hi-def-capable components, such as DVD/HD-DVD/BluRay players, HD cable and satellite boxes, AV receivers, HDTVs, and personal computers. "

My number one complaint to him was the actual HDMI connector itself....this measly connector is too weak when coupled with the premium heavy guage wire we like to use...not to mention it has NO real locking mechanism to hold the connector in place.

The second was the WAY too numerous handshaking issues we are seeing at the consumer level....the whole reason I was at Radiient was that my Panny plasma had an issue with my new HDMI switch/repeater ( http://www.radiient.com/Radiient-Select-4-Four-Input-HDMI-Switch-Repeater?sc=2&category=41 ) ...the switcher was a bit too fast on the toggling between inputs...the Panny was having difficulty seeing the switches as well as not recognizing the HDCP signal in time. Luckily the Radiient team built such a great product in that it was flash upgradeable through its rs-232 com port....the engineer called up the latest revision software on his computer...changed the switching speed and the HDCP availability timeframe window...speed slower by a few milliseconds and HDCP window at a longer duration by a few milliseconds....tried the unit and it now worked flawlessly with every one of my devices.

The weak connectors are here to stay ( For backwards compatability ) but they are getting better with the handshaking issues. I am getting the twin sister to the Integra 9.8...the Onkyo pro PR-SC885P this week...I found it for 1,600 locally...just looking for a better price now....I think you would like this one

bsoko2

MikeC78 wrote: »

I beleive it's all marketing, companies making us to beleive we need all these fancy HDMI specs. I think it's all ridiculous if you ask me

I currently have a Pioneer Elite VSX-74 HDMI 1.1 AVR. It currently serves my purpose and send out all the newest HD sound via HDMI.

I find the new Integra 9.8 pre that just came out pretty interesting. By the time I'm ready to purchase though, I'm sure something better will be out.

Mike - I have the VSX-74TXVi and have found it to be wanting in bass when watching HDDVD movies via HDMI or Multi Channel. I had the firmware upgrade done and it still sounds flat. Standard DVD bass is excellent. Is this just my setup or is this pretty much how it is.

Bill

WilliamM2

I am getting the twin sister to the Integra 9.8...the Onkyo pro PR-SC885P this week...I found it for 1,600 locally...just looking for a better price now....I think you would like this one

Best price I found is $1302. You need to register to see the price:

http://www.teamtroxell.com/www/product.htm?ls1=1&ls2=10&brand=ONK&sval=&so=&User=&Sessn=&seen_last=&minpr=&maxpr=&ded=&esgrp=&

Got mine delivered last week. And Troxell's customer service has been great so far.

MikeC78

bsoko2 wrote: »

Mike - I have the VSX-74TXVi and have found it to be wanting in bass when watching HDDVD movies via HDMI or Multi Channel. I had the firmware upgrade done and it still sounds flat. Standard DVD bass is excellent. Is this just my setup or is this pretty much how it is.

Bill

Bill-

I use to have that issue until I did the firmware upgrade with the Pioneer. Did you upgrade the Toshiba or the Pioneer?

If you sent the AVR in for update, I have no idea what your issue is?

MADGSF

I plan on waiting a few years for this to sort itself out. I want a separate Pre and can't afford new, my TV is only 1080i and I can't afford a new Plasma and my AVR doesn't have HDMI and I, well you get the idea. Waiting will allow the prices to come down, stuff to show up on the used market, the format to solidify and me to save up some money.

cheddar

The official 9.8 thread over at avs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=873877

Over 100 pages and growing. It also applies to the Pro PR-SC885P clone as well. The audio reviews are very favorable. The biggest complaint is lack of a fine control menu for the reon scaler chip on the video side and lack of professional Audyssey installer calibration at the moment, but promised in the uncertain future by Audyssey. Still a very nice features to price ratio IMHO.

billbillw

I think its all too new. Nothing is fixed or permanent yet, its all evolving. I would hold off a few years before jumping on any of these new encoding bandwagons. Ideally, in a couple more years, all the BR/HDDVD players will have built in decoders and you can just send it to the multi-channel analog inputs.
I'm not even planning on getting an HD player until there is a sold dual-format player out that costs less than $500.

bsoko2

MikeC78 wrote: »

Bill-

I use to have that issue until I did the firmware upgrade with the Pioneer. Did you upgrade the Toshiba or the Pioneer?

If you sent the AVR in for update, I have no idea what your issue is?

I did the firmware udate with Pioneer and always ugrade the firmware of the AX2 myself onlline. The opening speil about HDDVD about watching /listening to HDDVD on the Miami Vice HDDVD plays the bass just fine. The bass (LFE) in the movie itself "sucks". The standard DVD version of the movie plays the LFE bass just fine. In the HDDVD movie "When We Were Soldiers" the LFE is somewhat better, but never as good as the standard DVD. Is this a bad transfer or just me? What HDDVD movie do you think that the LFE comes out as it should?

Bill

cfrizz

Smart plan Bill!

billbillw wrote: »

I think its all too new. Nothing is fixed or permanent yet, its all evolving. I would hold off a few years before jumping on any of these new encoding bandwagons. Ideally, in a couple more years, all the BR/HDDVD players will have built in decoders and you can just send it to the multi-channel analog inputs.
I'm not even planning on getting an HD player until there is a sold dual-format player out that costs less than $500.

shadowofnight

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Best price I found is $1302. You need to register to see the price:

http://www.teamtroxell.com/www/product.htm?ls1=1&ls2=10&brand=ONK&sval=&so=&User=&Sessn=&seen_last=&minpr=&maxpr=&ded=&esgrp=&

Got mine delivered last week. And Troxell's customer service has been great so far.

300 off....pretty good....I have to pay tax anyways locally so even paying tax and shipping ( Maybe 40 - 50 bucks shipping ) still nets me a 250 dollar savings

shahmichael@com

I also have Pioneer 74TXVI and it may sound strange but bass level was Great while watching The War on pbs-hd.The sounds exploded through my system yet watching certain HD-DVD'S and standard dvd movies bass seems not as bold.So maybe it is just the difference in way discs are recorded.HD though still sounds and looks great.I have had firmware updated on both.

bsoko2

That is pretty much how it is. Some movies the bass is great and on others it is ho hum. You will find this same issue with standard DVD as well as HDDVD. You can either accept it and leave your settings alone or you can play with the bass to make it somewhat acceptable (lots of BOOM and no detail).

Bill

WilliamM2

shadowofnight wrote: »

300 off....pretty good....I have to pay tax anyways locally so even paying tax and shipping ( Maybe 40 - 50 bucks shipping ) still nets me a 250 dollar savings

Actually, they only charge $21 shiping, from CA. to MI. Not bad for a 47lb. package that's 2 foot square.

mantis

It's a mess out there and someones gotta clean it up. I'm actually considering a Pioneer Elite receiver as a preamp untill soething better comes along. Or if it kicks **** I will make it a keeper. I'm very tempted to bring one home and give it a inhome test drive to hear and see it for myself.

Dan

BIZILL

if you are using TrueHD, those tracks are known for their less-impactful sub levels over dd or dts. most just bump their sub levels up a notch or two.

we were soldiers -- love this hd dvd!

bsoko2

MikeC78 wrote: »

Bill-

I use to have that issue until I did the firmware upgrade with the Pioneer. Did you upgrade the Toshiba or the Pioneer?

If you sent the AVR in for update, I have no idea what your issue is?

Mike - I came across this tread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856083 and this info that was there solved the problem for me. I had the SPDIF output set to Bitstream and not PCM when watching HDDVD. Now the bass is there big time!:)

Bill

MikeC78

bsoko2 wrote: »

Mike - I came across this tread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856083 and this info that was there solved the problem for me. I had the SPDIF output set to Bitstream and not PCM when watching HDDVD. Now the bass is there big time!:)

Bill

Glad you got it resolved!:) The sound should be leaps and bounds better set to PCM over bitstream.

del44

I'm also a 1068 owner. And I have to agree with you about the 1069 being a bit of a dissapointment. I really like my Rotel, but I may have to go elsewhere to get the things that I want on my next pre pro. Or, I might just get a receiver with HDMI 1.3. As of now, I'm content with my 1068 until things gets "ironed" out.

Systems

I think we are at a golden intersect right now. That meaning that if you acquire devices that support HDMI 1.3a you will be set for a good amount of time (kind of like getting a computer with a core 2 duo in it).

If you acquire a BR or HD-DVD box with 1080p and a AVR with HDMI and a TV that supports 1080p, you will be able to sit on that technology for a good amount of time.

The prices on these devices are real good now, no longer bleeding edge and probably wont fall that much more in any of those 3 sectors (except the HD players, but they really are not that bad).

I just dropped $13000 on my hardware and I am expecting to use them for a long time to come.

It’s a key time right now after a major technology push. But this stuff is going the way of computers and will probably continue to do so, meaning that as time goes on, they will probably upgrade on a faster tract.


I put together my last system 10+ years ago and used it for 10 years based on AC3 optical (DD 5.1), S-Video and standard TV. It lasted me perfectly for 10+ years until now.

mwaarna

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Best price I found is $1302. You need to register to see the price:

http://www.teamtroxell.com/www/product.htm?ls1=1&ls2=10&brand=ONK&sval=&so=&User=&Sessn=&seen_last=&minpr=&maxpr=&ded=&esgrp=&

Got mine delivered last week. And Troxell's customer service has been great so far.

Are they an authorized dealer?

I am looking to get a pre-amp.. i am sick of having the OSD come thru s-video.

engtaz

Doesn't anybody think that their will be a better way then HDMI. Unless they have a better locking method, HDMI is born to fail. JMO

engtaz

McLoki

Within a year or so the format war should be pretty established and almost everyone will be offering HDMI 1.3 AVR's or Preamps. Personally, I would just hook up to your 1068 via optical or Coax for the next year or so. (If you really want to take advantage of trueHD - use your 5.1 inputs for now)

You will not get the best sound you can from the new formats, but it will still sound really good and when you finally get your new preamp, not only will it be cheaper with more features than what you could purchase now, but you will get to relisten to your entire HD collection and enjoy the new sound.

After all - I don't think your 1068 will drop in value alot over the next year, but if you purchase something new now and there is a new feature that comes out in 4 months - your new piece will drop in value like a rock.

Just a thought.

Michael

McLoki

Also - just as an FYI, I noticed that there is a new software update for the 1068. (came out a few days ago) Just wanted you to be aware of it...

mantis

del44 wrote: »

I'm also a 1068 owner. And I have to agree with you about the 1069 being a bit of a dissapointment. I really like my Rotel, but I may have to go elsewhere to get the things that I want on my next pre pro. Or, I might just get a receiver with HDMI 1.3. As of now, I'm content with my 1068 until things gets "ironed" out.

Basically How I feel. I like my Rotel gear and have been happy with the sound. But I own HD DVD and going to pick up Blue ray and I want to take advantage of the new audio formats. Hdmi gives you the ability to pass audio and video digital to the preamp. I love it but the rsp1069 is just 1.1. that suck in my opnion since it's just coming out. I think Rotel missed the bus completely with it. It's killed.

NAD didn't miss the bus with there new receiver 1.3a and I know they will release a Preamp version soon. I'll assume Outlaw will follow real soon. B&K is releasing there preamp like Jan 08 so I'm hangin in there until I see what that does.
Aso Rotel didn't upgrade the 1098 yet only a minor change by dropping S video and adding just a HDMI switcher with no audio ability. That completely sucks and useless for me. I hope Rotel releases a new 1098 flagship with 1.3a , then I would go check that out.

Like I said I'm considering selling my Rotel rsp1068 and going against my own grain and buying a Pioneer vsx94 receiver which does everything I want it to do and sounds great doing it. I will use it as a preamp with my RMB1095. If I owned lets say the B&W 6 series or Cm7 theater package, I would use that receiver without the amp. It's fine running 8ohm loads and sounds good running speakers like B&W and Focal.

Dan

McLoki

mantis wrote: »

NAD didn't miss the bus with there new receiver 1.3a and I know they will release a Preamp version soon.

I assume you mean NAD will release something like this....

Michael

Edit - I don't true HD or Master DTS or any other HD format for sound decoding. I would check into that before purchasing. Not important now, but may be in the future. (another reason to wait awhile before purchasing...)