FOUND the problem in my SRS 2's, LOL

ka7niq

Thanks to everyone here for all their help.
Armed with a wiring diagram, and a schematic for the SRS 2's, I just took one speaker all apart.
GUESS what >
One stereo array had One warranty use 6510 speaker in it, and one 6511 in it, LOL
The dimensional array has a WELDED "warranty use only 6510 speaker in it, and one 6511.
I ASSUME that the stereo array is the vertical pair of speakers on the INSIDE of the cabinets, right ?

These "warranty use only speakers" look like 6511's and have PINK writing on the backs with Nov 1987 date codes.
They say SDA -CRS and SDA 2
Both say 6510 on it, the welded one is a 6510.
It's voice coil is froze up, it is history!

Now, WTF is a 6510 doing in the STEREO side, assuming the stereo side is the Inside vertical pair ?

The wires on the stereo array that I assume to be the inside pair are the correct wires, white and black.

HELP HELP HELP Someone.


Geez, no WONDER I was getting a weird sound ?

BTW, the damping pads behind the top speakers sliped almost all the way down the cabinets, leaving the top drivers unprotected from the back wave.

The damping MAY be OK just simply put back in place.

But, I WILL have to "swap" damping pads, just to mess with everyone

Houston, we have a BROKEN pair of SRS 2's, hoow shall we proceed ?

I am gonna go pull the right side speaker down.

Again, looking at the SRS 2 from the front, shouldn't the left speaker have the stereo drivers INSIDE

Here is the wiring diagram I was given


""The 1986 blade/blade version and the 1987 pin/blade version both use the same wiring color code:

Top tweeter: black (+), white (-)
Bottom tweeter: blue (+), white (-)

Dimensional Drivers: blue (+), green (-)
Stereo Drivers: black (+), white (-)

This parts list tells which drivers are used in each model:SDA Parts List

The tweeters and drivers should have a red dot on the positive terminal. Some SL2000 tweeters have a "+" sign carved into the plastic next to the terminal rather than a red dot."""

Now THIS may be another problem ?

The top tweeters use black and white wires, but the BOTTOM tweeter uses a Blue for positive and a GREEN for negative on my speakers.

HELP !
__________________

engtaz

SRS 2 had both drivers in them (6510 and 6511) and CRS+ stamped drivers have been used in them from the factory.

Joe08867

ka7niq wrote: »

Thanks to everyone here for all their help.
I ASSUME that the stereo array is the vertical pair of speakers on the INSIDE of the cabinets, right ?

Now, WTF is a 6510 doing in the STEREO side, assuming the stereo side is the Inside vertical pair ?

If I am not mistaken the inside drivers are the SDA drivers and the outside drivers are the stereo ones.

It looks like someone really messed around with those speakers and then didn't know how to fix it.

avguytx

The SDA drivers are on the outsides and the stereo drivers are on the inside.

Joe08867

avguytx wrote: »

The SDA drivers are on the outsides and the stereo drivers are on the inside.

My bad, I thought it was the other way for some reason. I was just going to modify my post but I was too late. You already posted this.:(

"Better to be quiet and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

avguytx

No biggie. I just looked in the book to double check myself.

I've always loved that saying...it fits me well!

ka7niq

Thanks everyone !
I have one bad 6510, it is welded and will not move.
I removed all drivers, and placed ALL 6511 drivers INSIDE, and all 6510 drivers, including the welded one, on outside.
Next I checked phase of tweeters.
Right tweeter pair was OUT OF PHASE with left, fixed it.
Listened .....

Had to remove SDA cable, stereo only now, bidding on the 66510's on Ebay, looking good so far ....

I will replace the welded 6510 as soon as I win the Ebay drivers.

STILL getting the left speaker seems slightly louder then the right ?

Even in stereo.

The right speaker has the one welded driver in it, maybe with a GOOD 6510 this will change ?

What about the polyswitches ?

Should I get rid of em ?

Replace ?

What do YOU guys want me to do ?

Plan on pulling crossovers, and read cap/resistor values for total replacement.

Damping pads fell down, almost completely OUT of top chamber.

I pulled em all the way up, but that left 1/2 of bottom drivers "naked" w/o any damping behind them, so I split the difference.

Was this correct ?

Are new foam gaskets around from Polk ?

NOW I can hear the tweeters, lol

They GOTTA go, can't wait for the new ones!

If ANYONE has a completed crossover parts shopping list for the SRS 2's, the LATER versions that I have, let me know.

It will save me some time as I will order crossover parts right away.

Thanks to ALL you guys on this forum for all your help!

Chris

Joe08867

IMHO, I would replace the polyswitches not get rid of them.

The tweeters are a personal taste item but I agree with you they have got to go.:D

ka7niq

Joe08867 wrote: »

IMHO, I would replace the polyswitches not get rid of them.

The tweeters are a personal taste item but I agree with you they have got to go.:D

Perhaps they were necesary with the old SL 2000 tweeters, but I would THINK the new SEAS tweters are much more rugged.
I do NOT clip my amps, and prefer powerful amps that sound good and are never stressed.
I really do not like the idea of a fuse in my speakers, unless absolutely necessary ?

They must be un soldered anyway to replace em, why not just get rid of them ?

Any other comments from anyone who has done or not done this ?

avguytx

I'm thinking about removing them on mine as, like you, I don't run my amps into clipping or at some crazy level. I'd rather everything work well! Are your crossovers on 2 separate panels on the cabinet (one being on the back of the terminal cup) or are they on one panel? Basically, just unsolder the poly switch and sold a jumper back in across the same location and you're done. Seems like I've read that it can cause a little better SQ in upper frequencies with it not being there. Most likely that's something I'd never hear. But again, I'm still deliberating on whether to leave mine in or not.

Also, with one side being louder than the other. I had this problem in my 1C's before I redid the crossovers. After they were redone, the opposite speaker seemed quieter but now that they are more broken in, all is well in the world.

read-alot

ka7niq wrote: »

What do YOU guys want me to do ?

Chris

Look into purchasing The SDA Compendium from

raife aka: darqueknight (pm him for info)

Then all your questions can be answered by reading-a-lot.

ka7niq

avguytx wrote: »

I'm thinking about removing them on mine as, like you, I don't run my amps into clipping or at some crazy level. I'd rather everything work well! Are your crossovers on 2 separate panels on the cabinet (one being on the back of the terminal cup) or are they on one panel? Basically, just unsolder the poly switch and sold a jumper back in across the same location and you're done. Seems like I've read that it can cause a little better SQ in upper frequencies with it not being there. Most likely that's something I'd never hear. But again, I'm still deliberating on whether to leave mine in or not.

Also, with one side being louder than the other. I had this problem in my 1C's before I redid the crossovers. After they were redone, the opposite speaker seemed quieter but now that they are more broken in, all is well in the world.

I am TRYING to get a parts list for my later version SRS 2's.
I can NOT make out the values on the schematics I downloaded.
Polk even sent me a schematic, and no luck reading it either.
It would save a lot of time if I had the parts list.
That way I could shop around, and have all parts ready before I tear into em.

I hear female vocals image wander, and most likely it is a crossover problem.
Resistors change values, and caps change too, especially OLD ones.

This wreaks havoc with the crossover, and the poor drivers can only do what they are told to do.

The Poly switches gotta go, no way I am spending time and money on good parts and new tweeters, only to have some wanna be fuse possibly sabotaging the sound.

I will not SLEEP with those things in there, but that is just me.
I only looked once at my crossovers, but it appears to be 2 panels.

Hey, while I have your attention, what about the damping pads ?

HOW are they supposed to go ?

If ya pull em all the way up into the top chamber, this leaves the bottom drivers 1/2 way w/o any damping behind em.

I split the difference in mine.

Dont wanna do any damping experiments until my speakers are right!

This will be a ways down the road.

I must get and install and break in the new parts.

I am going to go with Clarity Caps over Solens.

I will use Mills resistors.

avguytx

IIRC, the damping material should be in the upper section just behind the mids only and doesn't go much lower than that. Mine haven't moved too much but I would imagine you could use some glue or tape to hold them still. The imaging will also "wander" since you're down a driver, too.

The best way to get the right values for the crossovers is to simply remove the passive radiator and look at each cap and resistor. There could have been a running change possibly and reading each one will be the 100% way to find out what to order. Mine were correct in comparison to what the Compendium showed.

I worked on my crossovers last night and will post some pictures of the progress on the thread I made for them. Be happy that you don't have the 130uf and 56uf caps to replace! That 130 is almost the size of a Coke can! Plus, there are 4 caps on my versions for the low pass side whereas yours have a 40uf and a 20uf!

ka7niq

avguytx wrote: »

IIRC, the damping material should be in the upper section just behind the mids only and doesn't go much lower than that. Mine haven't moved too much but I would imagine you could use some glue or tape to hold them still. The imaging will also "wander" since you're down a driver, too.

The best way to get the right values for the crossovers is to simply remove the passive radiator and look at each cap and resistor. There could have been a running change possibly and reading each one will be the 100% way to find out what to order. Mine were correct in comparison to what the Compendium showed.

I worked on my crossovers last night and will post some pictures of the progress on the thread I made for them. Be happy that you don't have the 130uf and 56uf caps to replace! That 130 is almost the size of a Coke can! Plus, there are 4 caps on my versions for the low pass side whereas yours have a 40uf and a 20uf!

Yes my Brother, my heart BLED for you when I saw those caps.
I have been playing with speakers like most AK members, and KNOW what those **** COST!

My SRS's are now "on the borderline: of a LITTLE brightness.
The Clarity Caps have a warm, organic type sound with unforced detail.
We will see how they work in the SRS 2's ?

My SL 2000 tweeters are NOT clearly marked!

There IS a "scratch" on them under the foam gaskets, but it is hard to make out IF it is plus/minus ?

Anyone care to commment on the physical orientation of the tweeters ?
Can you TELL by the way the Polk Logo goes on towards the inside or outside what polarity the tweeters are ?

I guess I will just have to pull the crossovers ?
Is these a wiring harness, or will it require re soldering the crossover wires ?

ka7niq

read-alot wrote: »

Look into purchasing The SDA Compendium from

raife aka: darqueknight (pm him for info)

Then all your questions can be answered by reading-a-lot.

Sent Pay Pal an hour ago!

read-alot

ka7niq wrote: »

Sent Pay Pal an hour ago!

atta boy

DarqueKnight

Joe08867 wrote: »

It looks like someone really messed around with those speakers and then didn't know how to fix it.

It happens. Frequently.:mad:

ka7niq wrote: »

Now THIS may be another problem ?

The top tweeters use black and white wires, but the BOTTOM tweeter uses a Blue for positive and a GREEN for negative on my speakers.

This may or may not be a problem. The thing to remember is that black and blue correspond to (+) and green and white correspond to (-). If the green wire is terminated on the crossover in the appropriate place, you are ok.

ka7niq wrote: »

What about the polyswitches ?

Should I get rid of em ?

Replace ?

Prior to doing the cap upgrades, you can solder a wire across the polyswitch terminals to short them out of the circuit to see if you hear any improvement. Even if you keep the polyswitches in the circuit, I would replace them with the new versions which are available from Polk free of charge.

I removed the polyswitches in all my SDA's because they diminish high frequency detail.

ka7niq wrote: »

If ANYONE has a completed crossover parts shopping list for the SRS 2's, the LATER versions that I have, let me know.

It will save me some time as I will order crossover parts right away.

Each Speaker:

High frequency section:
Capacitors: 4.4 uf, 12 uF, 750 pF.
Resistors: Two 7.5 ohm, One 2.7 ohm.

Low frequency section:
Capacitors: 20 uF, 40 uF

DarqueKnight

ka7niq wrote: »

My SL 2000 tweeters are NOT clearly marked!

There IS a "scratch" on them under the foam gaskets, but it is hard to make out IF it is plus/minus ?

Anyone care to commment on the physical orientation of the tweeters ? Can you TELL by the way the Polk Logo goes on towards the inside or outside what polarity the tweeters are ?

If you are facing the front of the SL2000 tweeter with the Polk logo at the top, the positive terminal is on the right.

It makes no difference sound-wise whether the tweeters are installed with the Polk logo oriented up or down.

ka7niq wrote: »

I guess I will just have to pull the crossovers ?
Is these a wiring harness, or will it require re soldering the crossover wires ?

All of the fourth generation SDA's (1987) are supposed to have snap-in wiring harnesses. However, if there was any way possible to use up the remaining earlier SRS 2 circuit boards in the new model, that might have been done. Polk followed a policy of using up prior version parts in new model versions. Only a peek will tell for sure.

avguytx

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Each Speaker:

High frequency section:
Capacitors: 12 uF, 750 pF.
Resistors: Two 7.5 ohm, One 2.7 ohm.

Low frequency section:
Capacitors: 20 uF, 40 uF

From what I see in the book, isn't there also a 4.4uf cap in the high frequency section? In the diagram, it's just below and left of the top tweeter in series with the .13mH inductor.

Man, I wish that was MY crossover! It would have been about HALF the price to do them! Damn 130uf and 56uf caps...lol.

ka7niq

DarqueKnight wrote: »

It happens. Frequently.:mad:



This may or may not be a problem. The thing to remember is that black and blue correspond to (+) and green and white correspond to (-). If the green wire is terminated on the crossover in the appropriate place, you are ok.



Prior to doing the cap upgrades, you can solder a wire across the polyswitch terminals to short them out of the circuit to see if you hear any improvement. Even if you keep the polyswitches in the circuit, I would replace them with the new versions which are available from Polk free of charge.

I removed the polyswitches in all my SDA's because they diminish high frequency detail.



Each Speaker:

High frequency section:
Capacitors: 12 uF, 750 pF.
Resistors: Two 7.5 ohm, One 2.7 ohm.

Low frequency section:
Capacitors: 20 uF, 40 uF

Thanks Darqueknight!
I look foreward to my compendium.

WHAT are the tweeter capacitors, particulary for the tweeter high pass ?
I want the BEST cap there I can afford, maybe a RED Clarity Cap ?

Many High End speakers I have owned even used Electrolytics for less important crossover slopes, but will have a Hoviland or Mundorf on the tweeter high pass.

In my B&W Matrix 801's, I use a Clarity Cap on the tweeters.

I could hear NO difference on the woofer to mid high pass cap between a Solen and a Bennic Electrolytic.
I left the Solen in, just to "be cool".
But the tweeter high pass is CRITICAL, just as Lynn Olsen said it was.
As a mater of fact, Lynn Olsen says the tweeter high pass cap is THE MOST IMPORTANT component in ANY high end system.

I agree.

Experience has taught me that is where you shoot your wad

DarqueKnight

The 4.4 and 12 uf capacitors are mylar film types. The 750 pf bypass is a silver mica type.

You say you did not hear a difference with the Solen caps. Did you try a variety of music sources, particularly music with well recorded prominent bass content?

DarqueKnight

avguytx wrote: »

From what I see in the book, isn't there also a 4.4uf cap in the high frequency section? In the diagram, it's just below and left of the top tweeter in series with the .13mH inductor.

Yep. Previous post edited.

ka7niq

Dark knight wrote: »

The 4.4 and 12 uf capacitors are Mylar film types. The 750 pf bypass is a silver mica type.

You say you did not hear a difference with the Solen caps. Did you try a variety of music sources, particularly music with well recorded prominent bass content?

Oh YES, I played Barry Sadler, Boz Skaggs and Neil Diamond for male voices, and Barry White.
NO difference at all.

Played lots of string and electric bass too, including RAP, LOL

I even played the Sheffield Drum Record.

NO difference at all.

The Solen actually sounded a BIT fuzzy on Neil Diamond, but I was in a BAD Mood then, you KNOW how that goes ?

Solen is still in the 801;s so when I flip it over, I get :oohs and aahs: from my audio buddies.
It LOOKS heinous, big and black, just like my buddies wife's secret Lover, LOL

Now, the TWEETER cap, man what a difference ?

The B&W 801 tweeter is ultra fast and revealing, superior IMHO even to my old MG 3A Magnepans Ribbon.

The Clarity Cap's were the best I have tried on both of these speakers.

Never tried a Mundorf Supreme Oil cap, but DID try a motor run cap on the Maggies, good, but the Clarity cap even better.

Look at what even Polk is doing ?

They only use Mylar on the tweeters, all else is electrolytics ?

My OLD Celestion SL 600's were this way, all electro caps EXCEPT a Poly on the copper dome tweeter.

I MIGHT be able to get my hands on some TEFLON Caps !

ka7niq

Dark knight wrote: »

The 4.4 and 12 uf capacitors are Mylar film types. The 750 pf bypass is a silver mica type.

You say you did not hear a difference with the Solen caps. Did you try a variety of music sources, particularly music with well recorded prominent bass content?

Oh YES, I played Barry Sadler, Boz Skaggs and Neil Diamond for male voices, and Barry White.
NO difference at all.

Played lots of string and electric bass too, including RAP, LOL

I even played the Sheffield Drum Record.

NO difference at all.

The Solen actually sounded a BIT fuzzy on Neil Diamond, but I was in a BAD Mood then, you KNOW how that goes ?

Solen is still in the 801;s so when I flip it over, I get :oohs and aahs: from my audio buddies.
It LOOKS heinous, big and black, just like my buddies wife's secret Lover, LOL

Now, the TWEETER cap, man what a difference ?
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

The B&W 801 tweeter is ultra fast and revealing, superior IMHO even to my old MG 3A Magnepans Ribbon.

The Clarity Cap's were the best I have tried on both of these speakers.

Never tried a Mundorf Supreme Oil cap, but DID try a motor run cap on the Maggies, good, but the Clarity cap even better.

Look at what even Polk is doing ?

They only use Mylar on the tweeters, all else is electrolytics ?

My OLD Celestion SL 600's were this way, all electro caps EXCEPT a Poly on the copper dome tweeter.

I MIGHT be able to get my hands on some TEFLON Caps !
Interesting reading ? http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=10751.msg206685

treitz3

ka7niq wrote: »

HELP HELP HELP Someone.

I didn't bother to read the rest of what he said, and if I am wrong I apologize.

It struck me when I read this, that as of this very post he was asking questions. Now, it seems he is questioning/challenging DK's signed writeup as well as everybody else's posts.

Notice the amount of time between asking and commanding/dictating/BS'ting/ and all else that has gone on..............................:rolleyes:

RuSsMaN

Barry White for male vocals?

avguytx

Barry gets him "in the mood" to do some crossover googling.

hearingimpared

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Barry White for male vocals?

He dead, e' morta'!!!

The transformation of this person is amazing.

avguytx

Isn't there some sort of medical term for that? Don't they make medication for it too?

hearingimpared

Yes indeed it is called border-line personality disorder with bi-polar complications. The problem is that when the VICTIM doesn't take the prescribed medication on a regular basis they get waves and waves of illusions of grandeur complicated with paranoia and the feeling of constantly being victimized.

Once the patient realizes that there is a problem he can be properly treated with medication and intense psycho therapy. That is the problem here the patient is running wild.

avguytx

You took the words right outta my mouth...