pre-outs vs. speaker level

I know this is topic has been gone over & over, but I gotta ask anyway.

I currently have my psw650 hooked up front speakers from 3802 rec. to sub, to fronts. I have read in alot of posting that the pre-outs connection from the rec to the sub & lfe from rec to sub is the way to go. My 3802 will let me do this. Before I go out & buy 3 more rca cables I was hoping somebody could explain why this is better than the speaker level connection.

I just don't think the psw 650 is living up to it's potential. I have to keep subs vol around 7 or 8. I have tried just about every other connection possible except this one and won't be happy till I try it to see if it's the way it's connected, or it's just the nature of the beast (sub). I just need to understand it in theory before I start re-wiring **** again

Thanks in advance

Mark
You can check out any time you like..,
but you can never leave...........
Post edited by Handyhaver on

Comments

  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited October 2002
    My two cents:

    Speaker level conection works just fine. I see no inherent advantage by switching to the pre-outs route, except maybe less wiring hassles.

    Set the speaks to large and the sub to no and set your crossover at the sub to somewhere around 80-100 Hz and calibrate.

    You are at 7-8 probably just because of room size and your SPL needs. Is the bass decent?

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited October 2002
    All you need is one rca (monster bass cable) from the lfe (subwoofer out) on the reciever to the sub. Recievers bass management to help to optimize sub. I have never been satisfied with speaker level way. IMO
  • Handyhaver
    Handyhaver Posts: 66
    edited October 2002
    Hey Dr.

    So far the speaker level connections sound the best. I'm just running these connections, no lfe. I do have to run about 25' of cable to the sub & about 28' back to the speakers. Could I be loosing signal with having to run this distance?? I was just wondering what would be the benifits of running out the pre-outs
    (other than less wiring hassle) as opposed to speaker level connections.


    Mark
    You can check out any time you like..,
    but you can never leave...........
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited October 2002
    The invisable man;)
    There are only two ways: speaker level and preouts. If you only try one how can it sound the BEST!
    Now I guess you are saying you have powered towers.
    I have spent like $300 (it is pricey) on bass cables running from my lfe. One to my PSW1200 then each powered tower and then to my rear sub. And it sounds amazing. The last sub in the series hits as hard as if it were a direct connection to the lfe. That is if anyone cares. :o
  • JediCowboy
    JediCowboy Posts: 56
    edited October 2002
    Originally posted by Handyhaver
    I currently have my psw650 hooked up front speakers from 3802 rec. to sub, to fronts. I have read in alot of posting that the pre-outs connection from the rec to the sub & lfe from rec to sub is the way to go. My 3802 will let me do this. Before I go out & buy 3 more rca cables I was hoping somebody could explain why this is better than the speaker level connection.

    I have a 3802 hooked up to a 650 with 2 RCA outs from the receiver preouts *and* 1 RCA from the Subwoofer out to the LFE in. I did it this way because of a post I read here, because I had the cable on hand, and because I don't want to run/buy all that additional speaker wire to attach the 650 at the speaker level.

    Mains: Small
    Subwoofer: Yes
    Recever Crossover and 650 Crossover knob: 80 Hz

    Given this 3 RCA cable set up, is it really the best way to do it and why? It sounds good to me, I just don't completely understand the reasoning behind it.

    Would a single line to the LFE in be just as good?
    Would just the 2 RCA from the Preouts suffice?
    Is there an advantage to having all three, or is this a setup from which I'm not really getting any extra advantage?
    The Force is with Me -- YEEHAW!!!

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,412
    edited October 2002
    OK,
    it sounds like placement might be sucking the life out of your sub.How big is the room it's in?Is there a doorway near by thats allowing all the bass energy drift escape?
    The connections I have found to work best is the single rca cable from LFE to the sub.The avr3802 can be set at 80 hz.Thats fine.
    Do you own a SPL meter?It might help your bass problems.The pws650 should fill a faily large room.You might need to move it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Handyhaver
    Handyhaver Posts: 66
    edited October 2002
    the room is about 13' x 22'. the sub is about 3/4 back on the opposite wall (outside wall) as the front stage. I've tried the lfe set up with 2 recievers, jvc 9010, & the 3802. The best bass I got was from the speaker level set up. If I was to us the pre-outs, and the lfe, would this lighten the load on my receiver. I have polks rm7600 with the 650 and guess I should cross them over @ 100 or 120. Sub placement (for now) is very limited. I was just wondering if there is a difference between using the pre-outs or just stick with the speaker level & add an lfe cable.


    Mark
    You can check out any time you like..,
    but you can never leave...........
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited October 2002
    Try changing the phase to 180 degrees. Firing the woofer on the opposite wall might be fighting the mains. See what happens - couldn't hurt to try.

    As far as low level vs. speaker level - I use low level and do bass management at the receiver - it's simply easier. But I still think speaker level can sound just as good if the final SPL calibration with both methods is the same.

    I don't think the sub cares how the signal is fed to it, as long as it is sufficiently strong (use at least 14 gauge preferably 12 gauge for long runs). I don't think anyone could tell the difference betwen the two hook-up methods if final calibration at the listening position was the same.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2002
    Originally posted by scottvamp
    All you need is one rca (monster bass cable) from the lfe (subwoofer out) on the reciever to the sub. Recievers bass management to help to optimize sub. I have never been satisfied with speaker level way. IMO

    i have to agree with scottvamp. this is easy.. non messy and it works great. I'd be real surpised if you gained much of anything wiring your sub differently. The lfe out on your receiver was designed just for that.. to provide LFE singnal to your sub. why mess with perfection? If it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of theory. mine is LFE out from Marantz receiver to LFE in on the psw350. it rocks.
    correct subwoofer placement in the room makes a huge difference. move that sucker around the room. dont settle for the place in the room where the sub looks cool. move it around every corner in your room is going to sound different and produce different bass response. that's where you're going to gain the most umph from your sub guys.
    Ok i can step off my soapbox now. :lol:
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