Fxi3 sound output direction

patrickj

Hi,

I don't quite understand how these speakers are meant to be positioned. The fact that there are two sides confuses me, but from what I would surmise.. they are meant to be set up as I have in my diagram?:






Wouldn't this prevent sound from going directly to the listening position? I was told these speakers are meant to be used for side. Can someone help explain these to me?

Thanks!

polrbehr

The FXi's are best positioned the way you have them shown, so no worries there. The output of these should not be directed at you; the sound should
envelop you and be difficult to localize, especially in a 5.1 setup.

They are supposed to be above (2-3', IMO) and behind the seated listening position as well, space permitting.

I also am pretty sure they're specifically left/right labeled, and should be
installed accordingly. The proper setting in your amp setup should be "small"
for these, and for where you have them set up, set the speakers to dipole.
Of course, feel free to experiment with all of the available settings, and go with what sounds best to you. And welcome to Club Polk!

danger boy

what the polrbehr said.. do what he said.. don't worry about it.. they should not be aimed at your ears like conventional speakers. you can also mount them on the rear wall behind your couch.. that works will too. the woofer should face the front of the room though.

patrickj

Great, thanks guys. In my case, I will be using these with 7.1.. so should I do anything differently?

The position of my side speakers I currently have are just as you said, about 2-3' above and a little behind the seating position, mounted on the wall.

As it stands, it looks like I will use RTi4 or 6's with a CSi3 or 5 in the front, with these on the side, and I'm not sure what I will use for the rear. Would another set of 6's/4's be good for the rear? Also, if I get 6's for the front, would it be a problem if I get 4's for the rear?

Thanks for the help!

polrbehr

I would go with RTi6s for fronts (over the 4s, anyway), and get them on some good stands as well. If you haven't picked up a center yet, I would go with the CSi5 over the 3 (same thinking as above), but either one should sound fine.
For rear surrounds, I would say that RTi4s will fit the bill nicely, and would go with them over the 6s and save some $$$. Having said all that, try going without rear surrounds first; you may find that after you've finished calibrating
your setup, you're happy with the sound you get. Keep in mind that there are not many (any?) DVDs using 7.1, and it may be overkill to invest a lot of time and money in 2 speakers that will see very limited use.
dangerboy has a good point; try mounting the FXis on the back wall and see how they sound there. You may find that this will also eliminate the need for rear surrounds (my FX500's are on the rear wall, and they sound great).

patrickj

Thanks again for all the info.

The primary use for my system will be BD movies, PS3 Gaming, and Music. I wanted to futureproof myself as much as I could, and some of those things I use will include 7.1. It is a tough action to take, as you said, alot of things aren't in 7.1, but I matrix all of the non-7.1 stuff anyway.

Currently where I stand is here: I have a BIC H-100 subwoofer coming in Tuesday, and I want to upgrade the speakers I have now. I can get these FXi3's, RTi6's. and CSi5 used for around $575 or $600. I will still need to buy the rears, but I'm not in a rush for that. I will be breaking my bank as it is.

My other option was to get the RTi4's and a CSi3 for $330ish, but if I add the sides, it would be even more than the BETTER system, although it is used.

I think the best option is the used system, price and quality-wise, would you agree?

Also, the above discussion about the FXi3's has me confused-- are these better used as side speakers, or rear speakers? I'm trying to picture these speakers in the right place with my setup, but the 2 directions not aimed at the ears has me confused. You said I should put them a little behind me.. should I put them so that the woofers are lined up with the listening position? And what sounds will come out of the back side of the speakers? Basically, wouldn't the side speaker's interfere with what is coming out of the rear? Are the FXi3's meant to be used with 5.1 only, and not 7.1?

Another problem that I think I might have is that the back side of one of my speakers will be pointing to an opening in my HT room which leads to the staircase, as shown below:



I'm not the best when it comes to speaker wave and how sound travels, but that makes sense to me. Would that be a problem? I also have an opening in the front side.

It seems like the sides may interfere with the rears, and the sound may escape the room before arriving back at the listening area.

I just want to make sure I'm making the right decisions.. it's tough to throw down so much money on something I'm not 100% sure about.

polrbehr

patrickj wrote: »

Thanks again for all the info.
Currently where I stand is here: I have a BIC H-100 subwoofer coming in Tuesday, and I want to upgrade the speakers I have now. I can get these FXi3's, RTi6's. and CSi5 used for around $575 or $600. I will still need to buy the rears, but I'm not in a rush for that. I will be breaking my bank as it is.

Like these choices so far, better sound than your other option.

patrickj wrote: »

My other option was to get the RTi4's and a CSi3 for $330ish, but if I add the sides, it would be even more than the BETTER system, although it is used.

I think the best option is the used system, price and quality-wise, would you agree?

I would definitely go used. My current FX500i's were purchased (from CP)
used, my SVS sub was b-stock, and I will be acquiring a pair of RTi10s very soon. Used. BTW, can you return them if need be? Something to keep in mind.

patrickj wrote: »

Also, the above discussion about the FXi3's has me confused-- are these better used as side speakers, or rear speakers? I'm trying to picture these speakers in the right place with my setup, but the 2 directions not aimed at the ears has me confused. You said I should put them a little behind me.. should I put them so that the woofers are lined up with the listening position? And what sounds will come out of the back side of the speakers? Basically, wouldn't the side speaker's interfere with what is coming out of the rear? Are the FXi3's meant to be used with 5.1 only, and not 7.1?

Sorry for not being clear. The FXi3 s are suited to surround duty, whether they are mounted on a side or rear wall. I'm not sure how they would work
as rear surrounds, though; I would not use them for that. Just mount them with proper orientation (L & R), as you have in your drawing. That will yield the best output. Don't worry about lining up the woofers; if you mount them properly, you're good to go. They can be used in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, but again, I would only use them as "regular", not rear, surrounds.

patrickj wrote: »

Another problem that I think I might have is that the back side of one of my speakers will be pointing to an opening in my HT room which leads to the staircase, as shown below:



I'm not the best when it comes to speaker wave and how sound travels, but that makes sense to me. Would that be a problem? I also have an opening in the front side.

It seems like the sides may interfere with the rears, and the sound may escape the room before arriving back at the listening area.

You should be just fine with that room; I don't think your sound quality will suffer all that much. You should be able to compensate for any sound deficiencies (if any) with the settings in your receiver/amp.

patrickj wrote: »

I just want to make sure I'm making the right decisions.. it's tough to throw down so much money on something I'm not 100% sure about.

Ha! Welcome to the club!

patrickj

Haha... thanks again for all the help... continuing on the FXi3's.. what exactly do they output in the speakers facing the rear? Does the front woofer output the same sounds as the rear.... thing? Doesn't that make it as if there is basically another speaker facing a different direction?

When I went to Tweeter the other day I should have asked to audition these.. haha.

aaharvel

if you're going 7.1, the side fxi's should be set to dipole, with the "left" speaker on the left wall and "right" speaker on the right wall.

The back fxi's should be set to bipole, and imo both the "left" and "right" speakers should be reversed.

Don't get rti 4's/6's for your back surrounds. Get another pair of fxi's. You'll be glad you did.

Now, back to my regularly scheduled program, Apolcalypse Now

patrickj

dipole/bipole--- does that have to do with the wiring? The guy at Tweeter told me that he doesn't use both wires, and his opinion is there isn't much of a different using just one... would I need two for these? What would setting them to bi and dipole change? Also, again-- does both sides of the FXi output the same sound, or different?

shahmichael@com

I have set up that has FXI30's as side surrounds and RTI4's as rear surrounds,even though there really isn't real 7.1 surround on many dvd or hd audio I do like the sound.Hopefully in future there will be more 7.1 recordings.

patrickj

The only real problem I feel I may have is that the sound will escape into my two conjoining rooms that the speakers would be pointed towards. Is the sound meant to bounce back around and travel to the ears.. or is it supposed to just be picked up right as the sound leaves the speakers?

edoggrc51

Just so im clear here, when mounted as rear surrounds, are the FXi-3 classified as left and right when looking at them (midrange/tweeter facing towards you)? Or when sittting in a listening position(tweeters facing you)???

polrbehr

edoggrc51 wrote: »

Just so im clear here, when mounted as rear surrounds, are the FXi-3 classified as left and right when looking at them (midrange/tweeter facing towards you)? Or when sittting in a listening position(tweeters facing you)???

Whether side or rear-mounted, left speaker should be on your left when you are seated, looking at your TV, even if it will be behind you. Also, side mount should be set to dipole, rear mount to bipole. Of course, YMMV; play around with the settings to decide what sounds best to you.

edoggrc51

polrbehr wrote: »

Whether side or rear-mounted, left speaker should be on your left when you are seated, looking at your TV, even if it will be behind you. Also, side mount should be set to dipole, rear mount to bipole. Of course, YMMV; play around with the settings to decide what sounds best to you.

THANKS for the info!!!!!

patrickj

Got the FXi3's in-- using them on the side as I have shown in my original post. I currently have them set to dipole, and the sound is great! I certinaly want to experiment to see what is best though.

One thing someone mentioned was that I should set these to 'small' in the receiver--- why? Doesn't this mean they won't output the lower frequencys. The person I bought them off of told me he used them as 'large'.

polrbehr

patrickj wrote: »

Got the FXi3's in-- using them on the side as I have shown in my original post. I currently have them set to dipole, and the sound is great! I certinaly want to experiment to see what is best though.

One thing someone mentioned was that I should set these to 'small' in the receiver--- why? Doesn't this mean they won't output the lower frequencys. The person I bought them off of told me he used them as 'large'.

They will output lower frequencies, just not the whole spectrum.
Setting them to small will direct any freqs below your crossover (usually 80Hz
for most H/T apps.) to your sub, where lower freqs belong.
Those FX's you have can handle a full range signal, but if you have a good sub, why bother?
My FX500i s are set to small, as are my CSi30 Center, and my RTi10 mains, at least when listening to 5.1 sound. And while those 10s can certainly handle low end bass, it kind of defeats the point of having my SVS !
Again, play around with the settings, and stick with what sounds best to you.
And don't forget to calibrate .

patrickj

Ah gotcha... thanks .

So basically--- if you want the bass, or lower frequencys, to output from the speaker, set it to large, otherwise set it to small so the sub will handle them exclusively?

But on large it will STILL output from the sub as well, right?

polrbehr

patrickj wrote: »

So basically--- if you want the bass, or lower frequencys, to output from the speaker, set it to large, otherwise set it to small so the sub will handle them exclusively?

Yes. But, keep in mind you can also play around with the crossover settings as well, which will change the amount of low end each speaker will get. So, if you cross at 80Hz, anything below that will go to your sub, while anything above that will go to whatever you set to "small". The lower the crossover setting, the more low end will go to your small speakers.

patrickj wrote: »

But on large it will STILL output from the sub as well, right?

Yes, as long as you set your sub to "On" or "Yes", IIRC.

patrickj

Thanks again! I'm going to play around and see what I like best. Currently I have everything on large and my crossover is at 90hz, and I also have bass output set to 'both'.

patrickj

Back on the subject of the FXi sound direction-- I was reading over this article:

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/tech_article.php?id=27

According to that-- you want to use dipole if your speakers are located parrallel to your ears-- otherwise the effect will be ruined. My speakers are positioned a little behind and above my listening position. The speaker itself is pointed just a little past my listening position, but basically pretty close to directly at it.

Therefore-- shouldn't I use bipole? It also says bipole will provide a much greater localization-- which is what I'm looking for.

Dennis Gardner

The bipole and dipole settings are phase settings. Bipole puts the tweeters wired the same and localizes (makes them apparent and directional). Dipole swaps the +&- around on the tweeters and makes them sound diffuse (sounds like its coming from everywhere, but the speaker). Dipole is preferred for sides, and bipole is preferred when they are used on a back wall as rears.

Your room is fine, since using them dipole, won't really direct/project the sound too far. Try it both ways and you will see.........

patrickj

Ideally I would like to use them as bipole-- but as you said it seems they are best used as bipole when used as rears. If i DO use them as bipole on the sides-- will it be a problem if they are about a foot behind the listening position?

Dennis Gardner

Noone cares how you set it up...........dipole is simply suggested for the side speakers in a 7.1 setup since it gives the most seamless sound sweeps between the fronts and rears. Bipole leaves gaps.

patrickj

Gotcha. My ears will be the best judges anyway-- So I'll give both a shot but dipole was sounding good to me.

The only thing that keeps me iffy about it was that my speakers arent in line with my ears as recommended in the diagram.

Dennis Gardner

Sides should be slightly behind and above the listener. This causes less interference with the fronts, when program material coming from both is similar.

patrickj

I completely agree with you-- but according to the article I posted above from Polk, it says:

But for all this to work properly, the speakers need to be positioned "in-line" with the listening position as shown on the illustration below. If you are sitting out of the null area, the effect is ruined.

And again-- I would like to localize the sound, and the 'dipole' setting says that it is meant more for enveloping, and less localizing.


...maybe I'm thinking the unlocalizable sound will be too extreme. It's not like I'm going to think something coming from the right side of the field will actually be coming from the front. I will still hear it in the right side, but I just won't be able to exactly pinpoint it..right? But if I DO keep it as dipole-- should I disregard what Polk suggests?

Dennis Gardner

To the side or behind, just not out in front of you. From the THX site..........http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/side.html

I have tried both bi/dipole and dipole is better for the FX type of speakers on the sides. You really don't want to know where the sound is coming from otherwise it doesn't "surround" you, it points to you. Surround should be enveloping not distracting.

patrickj

Ah thanks for that. Looks like they will be fine where they are-- though they are only about 1 and a half feet above listening position at MOST-- will that be a problem?

I'm going to test some more material.


Edit: Been testing with Warhawk(7.1 LPCM PS3 game for controlled sound)-- When I throw a grenade to my left or right and turn-- I can certainly hear it coming from my 'left' or 'right'. So the directionality that I'm looking for is certainly there with the speakers on dipole. If I had my old speakers I suppose I would be able to localize it much more.

After more testing-- I have noticed an area that has been filled in greatly-- which wasn't there before. This is coming between the sides and rear, and I think the FXi's are responsible. If this is the 'enveloping' sound-- I love it.

The only thing that off the bat seems a little lacking is the area directly to my side and front. Are the FXi's supposed to fill that in.. or should my mains be doing all that?

patrickj

I did more testing today with bipole on this time-- I honestly can't notice a difference. I guess perhaps it sounded a little more directional-- but nothing overwhelming. Where will I be able to notice the difference most? I want to see exactly what the difference is and make my judgement on that.

I certainly don't feel like the sound is bouncing all around my room and arriving back to me-- which is what some people tell me bipole speakers are meant to do. I can hear the sound behind me, but it feels more like I'm picking it up when it leaves the rear side of the speaker.

---

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the technical things that I have heard about the difference is that one side is pushing while the other is pulling. Does that mean when there is sound in the area closer to the front the top side of the speaker will make noise, and when there is noise closer to the back side the back speaker will fire?

danger boy

a good movie to test your surround sound speakers is Master and Commander.. in fight scenes where there are cannon's being shot.. the surrounds kick in and it sounds like you're right in the middle of the battle. if the surrounds are placed right.. up high near your ceiling, the cannon blasts and hits should appear to be above your head.