Friday is where its at...

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    First time I've walked away today...

    Took a bit to dial it in...

    Basically had to reverse the phase of the right one to center it. Weird.

    But man is it fast and textured. Transparent to my ears, pretty neutral. I like it.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    OK, Sid, so describe the differences in sound between the single sub and the stereo sub setup...
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    I think the biggest difference...

    Is locating the bass guitar or bass instruments - where as before, since bass instruments are in the upper octaves of bass... they are placed in the stage, rather than kind of scattered out. And I had to turn it down quite a bit to blend it, kind of did it by ear -- which allows for extremely fast, clean bass.

    I am very impressed.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Cool. Is there anything else that changed?
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited August 2007
    gOOD SHOW
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I think the biggest difference...

    Is locating the bass guitar or bass instruments - where as before, since bass instruments are in the upper octaves of bass... they are placed in the stage, rather than kind of scattered out. And I had to turn it down quite a bit to blend it, kind of did it by ear -- which allows for extremely fast, clean bass.

    So what?

    I'm not trying to piss in your Koolaid, Sid, but I want to get a good perspective on your experience with stereo bass because I want to go in that direction someday. However, I'm trying to determine if the differences you're hearing are subtle or profound. Locating bass instruments may be interesting, but is it a significant improvement?

    You were getting extremely fast and clean bass with a single sub, so is your system even faster and cleaner? Has the soundstage widened? Have you experimented with standing the subs on their side? Some VMPS owners feel there's an improvement in doing so.

    Thanks.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    After listening more this morning

    The biggest difference is you cannot localize the bass. Its impossible. The soundstage is much better, dosnt lean towards any side, no side is fuller or lesser than the other. It sounds "perfect" its a seamless blend. The midrange sounds better since the bass is more evenly dispersed. It just sounds... better. It sounds "right"...

    The bass drum is beefier, hits harder, tighter. It sounds cleaner than before and quicker.

    I guess it would be like combining your right and left signal into your right main, then adding another. Mono to stereo.

    The difference is pretty big.

    I wouldn't go back to a mono subwoofer.

    It just tightens up the staging and makes it sound fuller. No real locational sounds at all...

    If you can do it, do it. You wont regret it.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    the best sounding location is the subwoofer firing to the other wall, like firing torwards each other. I only tried that with one sub though, dont think it would work to well.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited August 2007
    Early,your speaks dig pretty deep,why are you looking to go that direction?
    Sid,by your own description,haveing one sub in a 2-channel system,the bass is localized.Which is why I always said I didn't like a sub for 2-channel.Idealy,a sub for every channel would be what it takes,but who has the room and coin for that.But,no matter,as long as your a happy camper,all is good.Just don't crank it too much or you'll be re-plastering walls.:D
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    After listening more this morning

    The biggest difference is you cannot localize the bass. Its impossible. The soundstage is much better, dosnt lean towards any side, no side is fuller or lesser than the other. It sounds "perfect" its a seamless blend. The midrange sounds better since the bass is more evenly dispersed. It just sounds... better. It sounds "right"...

    The bass drum is beefier, hits harder, tighter. It sounds cleaner than before and quicker.

    I guess it would be like combining your right and left signal into your right main, then adding another. Mono to stereo.

    The difference is pretty big.

    I wouldn't go back to a mono subwoofer.

    It just tightens up the staging and makes it sound fuller. No real locational sounds at all...

    If you can do it, do it. You wont regret it.

    Good advice. I'd like to go this path too - the cleaner sound, not being able to localize bass, and the improved soundstage just makes things better.

    Congrats!
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • Spacedeckman
    Spacedeckman Posts: 96
    edited August 2007
    Early B. wrote: »
    Agreed. You're probably wasting money with HUGE dual subs in such a small room. You won't be able to truly appreciate how good your system is. The soundstage will be compromised no matter what you do.

    I'm not going to argue on the "huge" part, but if you have big subs in small rooms, you need two or sometimes more.

    Acoustics can be a strange thing.

    Mark
    System:

    VPI Scout/Benz Ace
    Sutherland PH2000
    Arcam CD72
    Yamaha DVD-CX1 (primarily for CD..26 lbs, all BB D/A)
    Audioprism Mantissa w/Reference PS
    Parasound HCA750 (temporary)
    Audiovector M1 Signatures
    Kimber 4TC x 2
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    my main goal with my current setup is have stuff that I wont have to upgrade in the future.

    So, having huge dual subs is retarded in my current room, but I dont plan to live there for forever either. Makes no sense to buy two subs I cant use in a larger room.

    I have the Largers turned up 1/8 of the way on the Paradigm Xover and its monsterous in my room. So clean.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    After listening more this morning

    The biggest difference is you cannot localize the bass. Its impossible. The soundstage is much better, dosnt lean towards any side, no side is fuller or lesser than the other. It sounds "perfect" its a seamless blend. The midrange sounds better since the bass is more evenly dispersed. It just sounds... better. It sounds "right"...

    The bass drum is beefier, hits harder, tighter. It sounds cleaner than before and quicker.

    I guess it would be like combining your right and left signal into your right main, then adding another. Mono to stereo.

    The difference is pretty big.

    I wouldn't go back to a mono subwoofer.

    It just tightens up the staging and makes it sound fuller. No real locational sounds at all...

    If you can do it, do it. You wont regret it.


    Thanks, Sid. This explanation helps alot.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    tonyb wrote: »
    Early,your speaks dig pretty deep,why are you looking to go that direction?

    Yeah, I know. I'm a basshead, so what can I tell ya? If I can get the benefits that Sid got, it may be worth it. However, I'm a bit hesitant about adding an external crossover. I just don't like the idea of extra electronics in the signal path. That's why I don't use a DAC, DIP, transport, or other such contraptions. They probably work fine, but I like to keep it simple.

    I'd really like to try dual stereo subs on my own system. Sid, can you ship yours to me for a week or so?;)
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    my main goal with my current setup is have stuff that I wont have to upgrade in the future.

    OK, so no more upgrades for you. Are you done yet?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Brad,
    Just get a Crown series with HiQnet ---

    Built in crossovers, EQs, phase, limiters, delays, synth...

    Nothing in the signal path, all done internally.

    The Paradigm is a good volume control though.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Once the Odyssey Monos get here - I'll be done from an electronics stand point...

    Some misc cables, acoustic panels and a LFE subwoofer - I'll be pretty done.

    I'm very happy with the performance.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Once the Odyssey Monos get here - I'll be done from an electronics stand point...

    Some misc cables, acoustic panels and a LFE subwoofer - I'll be pretty done.

    I'm very happy with the performance.

    Are you ever done? :)

    Good to hear that you're pleased with the performance. Now just add one more sub (LFE), and you'll be done!

    For now...
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited August 2007
    no one is ever done. OK it could get that way vs money. LOL


    Congrats Sid
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Thanks

    Well, thats kind of the way I see it.

    The one thing I could HONESTLY see myself getting a larger room is a pair of mains like the Super Towers. However, they wouldnt fair to well in my small room. But I could see eventually doing something like that.

    The Odyssey Amps that Klaus specced out for me - will be able to push absolutely ANYTHING I can fathom. So amp is covered, the preamp - I will always use in conjunction with a HT preamp.. so no upgrades needed for it... the CDP, eh, could sell it, but how much better can it get and look as cool?

    Subs? haha, doubt I'd need anymore for music. Definitely for HT though.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    The new SVS PB13-Ultra would be good for HT. I heard a prototype at CES and was flabergasted/amazed/wowed by the performance.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Brad,
    Just get a Crown series with HiQnet ---

    Built in crossovers, EQs, phase, limiters, delays, synth...

    Nothing in the signal path, all done internally.

    Do you have the mains high passed?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    I high passed them at 50hz through the Paradigm.

    Works better for HT and dosnt rob the mains of the texture for things around 60-90hz...


    The Paradigm does not seem to take away any details. But like I said, the main reason is movies - seems like at higher volumes the 7u tries to do to much at times and crossing them over really helps that obviously.

    But the Paradigm is basically a 300 dollar volume control and crossover. And sounds great.

    But all the Crown processing is done for the subs.

    PS: High passing the mains also kind of goes along with the idea I'm doing with having stereo subs. I am basically using the Larger subs as a "woofer" in a pair of mains. Just extending the Mains, coupling the two together. So it would make no sense to make the 7u do alot of bass work, even though it can.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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