Newb question about impedence.

bykes

Sorry for the newb question.. I see the lsi9s have a nominal impedence of 4ohms. Would I run into problems if I connect these to a receiver that is rated for 8 ohms? Or is the 4 ohms just for maxium performance?

ben62670

You need an amp to run 4 ohms. At any level above quiet you will be over stressing your receiver, and not realizing full potential. Do a search for LSI9's, and amps

bykes

Let me also add I have no intention of buying an amp. Should I stay away from the 9s?

duksbak

bykes wrote: »

Let me also add I have no intention of buying an amp. Should I stay away from the 9s?

Yes.

duksbak

I'm sorry, that was a short answer...

Any speaker requiring a 4ohm load is going to be very power hungry. I don't think there is an AVR on the market that alone can effectively power the 9's. Since you are going to need this extra power, you are going to need an amp.

Run the 9s with an amp or go with a less power hungry speaker.

bykes

duksbak wrote: »

I'm sorry, that was a short answer...

Any speaker requiring a 4ohm load is going to be very power hungry. I don't think there is an AVR on the market that alone can effectively power the 9's. Since you are going to need this extra power, you are going to need an amp.

Run the 9s with an amp or go with a less power hungry speaker.

Thanks duksbak.

phuz

There are some brands of receivers that will be ok with the LSi9, and you'll pay for it. Rotel, Adcom, Arcam, NAD, Lexicon, Mcintosh, Sunfire, Anthem, etc.

Just not your average big box store receiver.

High current and relatively high power receivers that can handle a 4ohm load will be ok. Not optimal, but they'll be fine. I've run LSi15 and LSi9 with my Rotel RSX-1056 and it sounded great. Hardly a difference when driven with my seperate Rotel amp.

bykes

I just saw over in another thread that an Onkyo 905 would also do the job. Only reason I say that is because I'd be looking for something with hdmi.

Gaara

OK guys I think you are taking this a little to far. A 4ohm rating will be harder to drive but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

You could go get a $199 receiver and run the LSis just fine, they just won't be optimal. Any speaker will benefit from a external amp, but speakers like the LSis benefit much more.

I ran a 5.1 setup with LSi9s in front, FXs for surrounds and a C for the center off a ~100wpc Yamaha receiver for months with no issues. It sounded a whole lot better when I got a separate amp, but its not like it didn't work without it.

bykes

Gaara wrote: »

OK guys I think you are taking this a little to far. A 4ohm rating will be harder to drive but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

You could go get a $199 receiver and run the LSis just fine, they just won't be optimal. Any speaker will benefit from a external amp, but speakers like the LSis benefit much more.

I ran a 5.1 setup with LSi9s in front, FXs for surrounds and a C for the center off a ~100wpc Yamaha receiver for months with no issues. It sounded a whole lot better when I got a separate amp, but its not like it didn't work without it.

Thanks Gaara. I was getting a bit nervous after reading the replies. I AM running a $199 Sony receiver(90w/channel) and it hasn't crapped out(yet).

tonyb

bykes wrote: »

Thanks Gaara. I was getting a bit nervous after reading the replies. I AM running a $199 Sony receiver(90w/channel) and it hasn't crapped out(yet).

Now that say's it all.....

LOOK,you can hook up anything to the LSI 9's and they will play,not great,but they will play.Now,is running the risk of toasting your receiver or the speakers worth it to you? Do you understand under powering speakers is the worst thing for them?Have you read up on what is required?Why spend the money on speakers if you do not want to hear their full potential?If you have no intention of getting an amp,then stay way from the lsi line.Polk has many speakers that your 200.00 sony can drive.The mega buck receivers will drive 4 ohm loads,but thats why they are mega bucks.Your sony is NOT up to it and you will toast something.Think about it kiddo and read up,educate yourself before emptying your wallet.

bykes

I think some of you are sounding a bit snooty. I really see no mention in the manual for using an amp as a requirement. I do believe I would benefit from it as most of you say. This is a new thing for me and I post questions like this because I don't know.

phuz

Nobody is being snooty. When the LSi line first came out lots of folks (including me) weren't happy with the sound quality after purchasing LSi speakers and using them with regular big box store receivers. Some people even had problems with drivers blowing or receivers overheating.

Yes they'll work, but you run the risk of damaging the speakers and/or receiver.

I HIGHLY suggest you do not run them at high volume with an average AVR, and plan to upgrade in the future.

bykes

I do not run them at a high volume. I do plan to upgrade in the future, probably to an Onkyo 805 or 875.

Yashu

Mass market recievers are usually over-rated in terms of power, and they also have trouble with loads greater than 8 ohms... it is just a fact.

Like one of the above posters said, there are many good recievers that can drive the LSi 9s properly, you just happen to not have one. We are not trying to sound snooty, we are just trying to help and make sure you understand that if you do not like how they sound, there is a pretty good chance it is not because of the speakers, and there is also a genuine risk of overloading a little reciever like that. Many people here love the LSi series, and they hate to see yet another person post about how bad they sound in their setup when they are not giving them proper amplification.

Ron Temple

Looking at the Onk specs, it looks like it can handle a 4 ohm load. It's a much better match. The Sony will probably fry if you added the 9s to the C. Whether the Onkyo will do the 9s justice, I can't tell you...probably yes, maybe no. It's got pre outs, if you want to add an amp down the road.

duksbak

Let me take a different explanation approach.

Running the LSi9's off a reciever alone would be a bit like running a Lamborghini with a Volkswagen engine. Sure you could go, but you are not taking full advantage of your purchase.

You can run your 9s off a reciever (if the reciever can handle that 4ohm load), but you will not get the full experience that the 9s can offer. If you never plan on getting an amp, you will never get full value out of your 9s.

Onkyo 905 is a great reciever and if you hook up your 9s directly to it, you will get enough to drive them. I would suggest, though, that you get an amp down the road so you can fully appreciate what the 9s can do for you.

Remember: more power does not mean louder sound, but a better, clearer sound experence.

tonyb

Sorry if that was directed at me,didn't mean to appear snooty.Running 4 ohm speakers off of an avr is asked about on this forum oh,maybe twice a week.If you use the search button at the top of the page,all your questions will be answered.You have to have a basic knowledge of what is required to drive what.We are only trying to save you money and possibly a bad experience.So sorry if I sounded edgey,but we try not to pull punches around here.Well,most the time anyway.Cheers.

wingnut4772

bykes wrote: »

I think some of you are sounding a bit snooty. I really see no mention in the manual for using an amp as a requirement. I do believe I would benefit from it as most of you say. This is a new thing for me and I post questions like this because I don't know.

You ask a question and then say we are snooty when you get the answers?:eek: Go ahead.... run your LSIs full blast on that Onkyo.

blakeh

I think there are really three separate and distinct questions being answered in this thread:

1. Will Lsi9 speakers work using a Sony/Onkyo receiver?
2. Will the Lsi9 speakers sound good with a Sony/Onkyo receiver?
3. Is it safe (for my speakers and/or my receiver) to run Lsi9 speakers with a Sony/Onkyo receiver?

I think the consensus to question #1 is yes, the Lsi9s will output sound with a low-end/mid-fi receiver. If you hook them up and press "play" on your DVD player, you will hear sound come out of them. There's no doubt about that.

The answer to question #2 is a bit trickier. It's largely a matter of opinion. However, you've come to a forum where members (for the most part) enjoy great sounding gear and therefor the opinion you're receiving is no, the speakers will not sound great using a low-end/mid-fi receiver. Many people here (including myself) have heard the benefits of running the Lsi series via pre-amp/amp versus a HT receiver. The difference is night and day.

Lastly, the answer to question #3 is a resounding it depends. If you run the speakers at very low levels, you'll probably not hurt the speakers nor the receiver. However, if you begin to play them louder and/or try to reproduce complex sounds (explosions from a DVD movie, etc.) you may end up frying your receiver and/or your speakers. Most of us here would not want to drop $800+ dollars on Lsi9 speakers only to have them ruined by a mis-matched receiver.

I don't think anyone was trying to be snooty. We just want you to know the facts. After all is said and done, no one is going to dislike you because you chose a different route.

Good luck.

Yashu

The onkyo would beat the $199 sony special... would still sound a bit harsh and thin though. I don't agree that there are not any recievers that can run the LSi 9s... there are ones that certainly can, for a price.

bykes

duksbak wrote: »

Let me take a different explanation approach.

Running the LSi9's off a reciever alone would be a bit like running a Lamborghini with a Volkswagen engine. Sure you could go, but you are not taking full advantage of your purchase.

You can run your 9s off a reciever (if the reciever can handle that 4ohm load), but you will not get the full experience that the 9s can offer. If you never plan on getting an amp, you will never get full value out of your 9s.

Onkyo 905 is a great reciever and if you hook up your 9s directly to it, you will get enough to drive them. I would suggest, though, that you get an amp down the road so you can fully appreciate what the 9s can do for you.

Remember: more power does not mean louder sound, but a better, clearer sound experence.

duksback,
Thank you again for the advise. I think you have convinced me to get an amp down the road if I want to get the most out of my speakers.

bpgunning

i actually posed this question to the people at HK (i have an AVR 445) and they said as long as it has plenty of free space around, and HK receiver can drive a 4 ohm speaker just fine. now, to what extent is this statement true? i have no idea... but most of the people here will tell you that HK's power ratings are very truthful, and that 60w of HK is better than over 100w of anything else you can find mass market. and as their wattage ratings are very honest, i doubt they would exaggerate when they say their receivers can drive 4 ohms.

heiney9

Gaara wrote: »

You could go get a $199 receiver and run the LSis just fine, they just won't be optimal. Any speaker will benefit from a external amp, but speakers like the LSis benefit much more.

Anything above talking with this type of inexpensive receiver will probably send it into protection mode. Don't waste your money on the LSi series if you are going to use entry level gear.

You can power Lsi's with a modest mid-line receiver but they will only be about 50% (or less) of their potential. If you go this route make sure to have plenty of ventilation around the receiver and make sure you do your homework as there are some on here who used a mid-level receiver in a large room with LSi's and it was constantly going into protect mode because it wasn't designed to power the load the LSi's can present.

H9

P.s. HK receivers are one's that would probably get you by.

bykes

After a little more research I found that the new Onkyos are able to power 4 ohm speakers. There is a setting which allows for it. I think what Ill end up doing is getting a new recevier and sticking with my current speakers for now. I wasnt planning on upgrading the speakers until after I move into a house. This way it will give me the option to save a little money and purchase an amp later on.

heiney9

duksbak wrote: »

Let me take a different explanation approach.

Running the LSi9's off a reciever alone would be a bit like running a Lamborghini with a Volkswagen engine. Sure you could go, but you are not taking full advantage of your purchase.

*smartass mode on* VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) has owned Lamborghini for the past 4 years or so and actually the baby Lambo has an engine derived from the VR series of motors which Volkswagen designed from the ground up *smartass mode off*

H9

Gaara

heiney9 wrote: »

Anything above talking with this type of inexpensive receiver will probably send it into protection mode. Don't waste your money on the LSi series if you are going to use entry level gear.

You can power Lsi's with a modest mid-line receiver but they will only be about 50% (or less) of their potential. If you go this route make sure to have plenty of ventilation around the receiver and make sure you do your homework as there are some on here who used a mid-level receiver in a large room with LSi's and it was constantly going into protect mode because it wasn't designed to power the load the LSi's can present.

I guess this is one of those YMMV situations. I have heard the LSi9s and LSi15s being run at decent levels off of $199 Onkyo and Sony receivers. A friend bought them and had them delivered to our store and we hung out in back and listened to them for ~2hrs over a slow 10 hour shift. Multiple times he cranked it so the front of the store could hear (and was promptly yelled at to turn it down). No issues to speak of.

My Yamaha never got that hot running a 5.1 surround setup with 9s in front, and I would listen at loud levels (louder then I do now). That thing was ~$700 and 100wpc a few years back.

That being said, I still say they will work fine with cheap receivers, from my own experience as long as you don't go to crazy, but this can be said about any speaker. They were less then optimal and gained a lot from a external amp, but what speaker doesn't?

bykes, my advice would be to get a cheap receiver that has preouts, and get a decent amp for the fronts. This way you will spend the same or less then going with a higher end rcvr, and get much better sound.

Jared

heiney9

Gaara wrote: »

That being said, I still say they will work fine with cheap receivers, from my own experience as long as you don't go to crazy, but this can be said about any speaker. They were less then optimal and gained a lot from a external amp, but what speaker doesn't?


Jared

One persons fine wine is another person's swill. I will disagree and say in my definition of fine they come up pretty short on entry level equipment.

Gaara

heiney9 wrote: »

One persons fine wine is another person's swill. I will disagree and say in my definition of fine they come up pretty short on entry level equipment.

We even have different definitions of fine, I guess we are both coming from two different perspectives. I consider fine to mean ok, like "I'm doing fine", and with this context I felt that the LSis sounded fine with the cheap receivers.

Using your definition I felt the LSis didn't sound "fine" until I hit a certain level of gear, which happened to be a Parasound Halo Pre and Halo amp. I also found the LSis to sound "fine" with a Modwright SWL 9.0SE + Earthquake Cinenova Grande, but both of these are a little out of the scope of this thread about cheap receivers.

heiney9

^^I see what your're saying completely but to someone new to this site and not familiar with some of the members he could take it differently than either of us. I just feel running LSi's on entry level equipment is a waste because they are designed to run with better gear. Will sound come out, sure will it play.

Just to throw another twist in here the Onkyo he is talking about has a switch for 4 ohm. This switch is to limit the amount of current the speakers can draw at their nomonal 4 ohm rating because the ouput section and transformer aren't up to the task.

Even in this less than ideal situation he's still better off with a receiver that limits current. Still not fine in my book but probably safer and ultimately he may get a slight bit more volume before it limits current and goes into protect mode.

H9

john22614

When I first got my 9's I ran them with a 75 wpc Yamaha and, although they sounded better and clearer than my old LS50's, they were still kind of dull and flat. Then, when I hooked them up to my new Anthem MCA 3 amp using the Yamaha pre outs, they sounded great.....like taking a blanket off them. And, I don't play them real loud, but still hear a major improvement. And, they are supper clear and sharp for movies too. I don't think anyone will dispute the value of using separates for the LSI series.