My insane subwoofer solution...

VR3
VR3 Posts: 28,644
edited August 2007 in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
Ever since I have been in this hobby...

I've done some weird stupid things...

I've ran 10 channels of power in a 5.1 system...

I've stacked multiple speakers of different kinds with each other...

I've built weird speakers...

I've liked things for a month and hated it the next

Totally unorthadox methods to get weird end results that I normally hate in the end.

Well posed with basically the ability to get what I want and tired of dragging it out... I think I have finally figured out what I want to do... with my kind of style... insanity

Here is my current subwoofer plan...

Basically, run a stereo pair of VMPS larger subwoofer, ran off a XTi1000 - eq'd to a seamless blend and a flat response...

Crossed at 80hz, low pass and 25hz high pass. This will allow me to dial them in perfectly and for them to act an extention of the mains in 2 ch and home theater. This basically makes them HUGE front speakers in a smaller package.

Then, a SVS PB 12/2+ subwoofer crossed at 80hz in the 20hz tuning. SVS is hooking me up with a crazy deal on this subwoofer. Hard to pass it up.

This will give me the low extention and crazy slam I want for HT.

Perfect situation, I would have the SVS ran on a HT preamp, and have the VMPS/Taylo combo on the Odyssey -- and ran on the HT Bypass, would make the HT preamp see them as mains... and when the HT preamp kicks in the SVS will be on. For now I would just run the SVS off the Crown XTi amp XLR outputs...

Its crazy, its insane...

Its the way I do things, but I think in all the insanity - it might just work... lol

And for those that are counting in their heads...

Yes, that is four 12" woofers, two 15" woofers, and 1900 watts of power and exactly.. four hundred and ten pounds of subwoofers in a 10.5x10.5x8 room.

Good news is, I'll never need anymore bass.

I believe I am going to order the second VMPS tommorow... already ran the wire for it...
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Comments

  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited August 2007
    Go for it!!
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    I think I am...

    I gotta make a few phone calls...

    But... assuming all will pan out, I will order a second vmps today...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited August 2007
    Yep,your insane!!!
    Like to know how you control all those low freq. bass waves bouncing around a 10 by 10 room??
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited August 2007
    How are those psychiatrist bills?
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited August 2007
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    How are those psychiatrist bills?

    That is how he is affording the subs - dropped the psychiatrist.....
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    The Crown XTi1000 has a variable 5 band eq that can be dialed in to .01 of a frequency - variable slopes, etc etc, amazing stuff

    I can dial in my stereo subs perfectly in my small room for a very flat response with them.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited August 2007
    Out of curiosity - why dont you just sell your VMPS you have now and get stereo plus/2's (or the new ultras)?
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2007
    McLoki wrote: »
    Out of curiosity - why dont you just sell your VMPS you have now and get stereo plus/2's (or the new ultras)?

    Ditto. Was thinking the same myself.

    Seems to me you are making things way to difficult.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    SVS makes bass pistons...

    Not very musical in the end. The VMPS is sealed, push pull, and low compliance.

    I've heard the old Ultra - great subwoofer. Just no tone.

    Also, the Crown amp pretty much seals the deal for me to keep the VMPS. I can set my crossover EXACTLY where I want it - set the slopes, 6/12/24db ---

    5 band EQ, any where I want it... low pass and high pass crossovers per channel... - 20 presets if I want different settings for rap, rock, (which I dont/wont) - options are there.

    The combo of tone, accuracy and overall flexibility is amazing.

    Its something SVS cant offer me. They are great HT subs, but when it comes down to the skinny for music - they dont do what I want/need them to do.

    In my small room, I need to be able to dial them in, and I hate adding eq's/etc to the chain. It only degrades the signal and isnt near as exact as my Crown amp.

    Dont read me wrong, I've just heard some of SVS's best - and its tone for music is lacking. No real seperation of what it is doing...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • del44
    del44 Posts: 686
    edited August 2007
    Hey Sid. Have you tried using a Y splitter from the pre to power amp and sub? If so, how did it sound and was it hard to integrate the subs with the mains. I was thinking about trying this method.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    If you are splitting the LFE channel, you are basically just taking one signal and putting it to two speakers. The true way to do this would to put this in the middle of the room for music...

    If you are just going for movies --- put it in a corner and crank er up.

    For music, dosnt matter how good of a subwoofer you have, you either gotta have it in the middle of the room or one on each side or it just dosnt sound right - to me anyways.

    But splitting the LFE channel is a nice effective way to get multiple subs - its just that you are not using different signals.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    second vmps is ordered. :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • del44
    del44 Posts: 686
    edited August 2007
    I was thinking 2 channel. One sub next to each main.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    If you used a R & L signal there would be an advantage.

    However, since you are reproducing the same signal at different points in the room, it may cause cancelations or something to that effect.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Strong Bad
    Strong Bad Posts: 4,278
    edited August 2007
    Dude, a month ago you were trying to dump the VMPS to go back to SVS. Now, since you couldn't sell it, it's buy another and bash SVS.

    Come on Sid!

    I'll throw my PC-Ultra up against that VMPS any day of the week!


    John
    No excuses!
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    Subs that have a lot of excursion can have a hard time quickly getting the cone back to the 'zero position' between bass notes, so there is some bleeding, which Sid would probably describe as a lack of separation. SVS is great, but don't think there's not room for improvement.
    Never Forget
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Actually - if you take note...

    I had actually bought the Martin Logan Depth --- but decided against it.

    Then I wanted to build one.

    The VMPS just sounds so darn good with music.

    With very low compliance drivers, push pull with the PR - then sloat loading the PR, it just all adds up to make a very musical subwoofer.

    Now you are more than welcome to bring the SVS to the rig to test it with the rig... and you will stomp me in HT.

    But I've heard the Ultra and it has ZERO tone compared to the VMPS, no texture - not quite fast enough either.

    I am not bashing SVS, I am just saying for music you cant compare it to a sealed, push pull subwoofer.

    But for HT, its a no contest for SVS.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2007
    Sealed usually rules with music, ported subs have ruled with HT.

    Sid,

    Have you ever tried SVS' sealed subwoofers?? The new Ultra has a sealed mode designed mainly for music, and there are other subs(SB12)? Have you talked to SVS?

    good to hear you are enjoying the VMPS, but the buck doesn't stop there for music.

    I'd also like to get my ears on an HSU MBM-12, fast light cone, made for the upper octaves. I'm sure it would eat the VMPS as a snack.;)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Eh, I like the VMPS for more reasons than one.

    The Crown XTi1000 is pretty much why I am keeping the passive sub setup.

    With the crossover functions and so forth

    Its just an amazing amp with tons of features that I utilize very well for my room.

    Probally will need a bigger XTi for the subs though.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    The HSU Midbass module is a great idea

    But it is not what I am looking for.

    I want more surface area for when I move to a larger room.

    And I do not plan to have the SVS on for music, just movies. The SVS will be crossed over at 80hz and cranked to probally 10db louder than everything else probally... lol

    the HSU is designed to be used in conjunction with a subwoofer. Where as I want to use the VMPS subs an extention to the mains down to 25hz, then when I turn on the SVS for movies - it would be like having really big mains and a LFE subwoofer instead of 3 subwoofers.

    The midbass module is probally faster though - but wont have the processing power or the power of the Crown... just not what I am looking for.

    The VMPS/Crown setup - regardless of Brian Cheney - is pretty much what I am looking for for music.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Three subs in a bedroom?

    You are crazy. :)
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    I am very stoked to have true stereo seperation with bass... this should bring a grin ear to ear...

    fast, seperated, articulate bass - I'm there.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,963
    edited August 2007
    The gangsta-rap people will love you Sid..:)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    You guys are funny...

    Just because I will have 3 huge subs dosnt mean its going to be a rap system... lol

    Granted I guess if someone wanted to do that I could just turn on the SVS calibrated for movies and be good to go? lol

    But the goal is actually very* accurate, precise music reproduction.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    If the SVS is cranked 10db louder than everything else, is that still accurate sound? Even for movies?

    I would think the SVS would be past its limits but I'm not sure...would like to know if the SVS is capable of such output or not...
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    Who cares about accurate reproduction of movies? haha

    I just want my brains rattled for movies.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Who cares about accurate reproduction of movies? haha

    I just want my brains rattled for movies.

    So - the same kind of sound you had 3 years ago with the SVS 22-31PCi?

    That was the most brain rattling demo I've ever heard.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Still insanity. You need to see a psychologist ASAP.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • Strong Bad
    Strong Bad Posts: 4,278
    edited August 2007
    All of this crammed in a little bedroom and you're going to get fast, articulate VERY precise musical reproduction? If it gets you there, fine. Don't be so quick to slam SVS in such a broad manor since you no doubt do not have the room to set one up properly. SVS subs are very musical. I did a setup in my decent sized living room one weekend months back with my PC-Ultra and LSi7's. I powered my LSi7's with my Carver amp.

    Have to say it was pretty effing phenominal because I gave it (the system) the room it needed.
    No excuses!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    I've heard the PC Ultra in a 35x35x10-12 room with slab floors

    Dosnt get much better than that.

    All opinion, YMMV
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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