Bi wire

tpeter

I hear all you guys saying you BI wire you speakers. What is the difference to the normall way. Dont you have to have pre amps in order to do this. Does is sound better?

scottvamp

LLLLllllleeeettttt'sssss get ready to RRRRrrrrrrrruuuuummmmmbblllllee!!!!!!!!!

tpeter

Why do you say that? Is this a flame post ? Do people have mixed reactions?

trubluluc

tpeter-

This has been a long running debate around here, years.
Biwiring is removing the gold jumper plate on the back of your speaker, and wiring both speaker jacks separately to your amp/receiver.
Do a search, you'll find the 10,000 opinions already given.

I can summarize for you if you like.
Does it make a difference in sound?

yes, no, yes, no, yes, no.........

-Luc

goingganzo

i replaced the jumper with real wire sounds a little better i also had the tweeter out of phase it was a different sound made the trebble a little more pronounced but i switched back

brettw22

Originally posted by trubluluc
I can summarize for you if you like.
Does it make a difference in sound?

yes, no, yes, no, yes, no.........

TroyD

IMO, if the speaker is configured for bi-wiring, you should at least try it.

The raging debate seemed to center around if you could in fact bi-wire a pair of RT1000i's which, of course, you can't.

Essentially, what biwiring does is allow you to power the upper frequencies independent of the lower ones. Having said that, the 'actual' benefit depends on who you ask. Try it and tell us what you think.

BDT

mantis

Well,
all that debate is behind most of us,but Bi wiring is the way to go.I have yeat hooked up any speaker that made it sound worse.

Do a search you'll have alot of reading to do.

Pssssssssssst....rt1000p's where bi wired...........allday.My me.:p

TroyD

PSSSSSSSSSSSST....you have them hooked up with a biwire cable......they aren't, weren't nor ever could be biwired.....heh, heh, heh...:p


BDT

mantis

and you owned them and tried for yourself?????????I didn't think so....Psssssssssssssssssssssssst......it sounded better.Thats the goal.All smiles!!!!!

TroyD

You don't need to own an RT1000 to know you can't biwire it. All you need is to know how to read on a 6th grade level and comprehend basic facts about how a crossover works, that's all.

Whatever, if it makes you happy than what more could you want.

BDT

RuSsMaN

Ignorance is bliss, or some such.

mantis

OK,
Ignorance/stupity/Nieve/ or whatever you want to call it is fine with me.
It doesn't matter to me anymore as the rt1000p's are being packed up along with the rest of the rt speaker package,and is heading for my Uncle's house.The Denon avr3801 is also going.

But the fact is.....In MY Opnion,the rt1000p's sound there very best wired in a bi wire configuration.You can say it's not bi wired all you want,but the audio difference is noticable over the standard 2 wire with the jumpers in place.And running line level outs from LFE and Left and Right Preouts.

This is how the speaker should of been configured on the back if speaker level couldn't be seperated from the subwoofer.One set of speaker 5 way bindingposts and one line level input.But it's not, it has another set of 5 way binding posts giving you the ability to run speaker level to the sub.This allows to to have the same sonic signature from the main amp driving the speaker.

All powered tower owners should at very least try this.I have been playing with these speakers for 4 years.So leave it alone would yeah.Instead of the name calling and saying "you can't do that" and all the other crap,why don't you apply that energy to some constructive tips on how the best way to wire the powered towers,what makes them sound there best with placement and such.

Like I said It doesn't matter to me,I have found with experience......trail and error what makes them go...bi wiring made them sound there best in my opnion.

If it makes you feel better,6th grade reading is a nice comment to make to someone.......I enjoyed it.:(

TroyD

Nobody is saying it doesn't sound better, what we are saying is that it's not biwiring. All your doing is running a speaker level input to the powered sub.

If you think it's biwiring, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what biwiring/biamping is. We have tried to explain it several times but for whatever reason you haven't seemed to grasp the concept.

BDT

mantis

does knowing the fundamentals make them sound better?I know what bi wiring is.In order to get speaker level to the sub, you have to wire as such.....right?

You still fail to give adice.Which is fine, you never owned them, and probably never even fooled around with any of them.

So set me straight........what is the wiring configuration called then?What should I call it so when I use a term, I don't have to go threw all this to talk abou it?????Tell me.

RuSsMaN

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round....

mantis

is that all you got on the subject Russ?Cute but no helpfull.

I just want an exceptable term to use when the topic comes up about powered towers and speaker level wiring.Give me one and I will subsitute my vocabulary in discussion pertaining powered tower's.

Other then them I will use the term bi wiring......as I for one strongly believe in the use.

I have tried for anyone who is interested,jumpers on the lsi 15's vs using wire jumpers and 2 conductor vs preade bi wire cables vs custom made bi wires.Which here I can use the term without anyone saying I can't use the term.The results are in if anyone wants to read.

trubluluc

Troy-

I'm not a true believer in the bi-wire thing, but I am curious as to why it's not feasible to wire the 1000 that way?
They do have dual imputs, and a jumper plate, so If you wouldn't mind explaining it, I'm sure I'm not alone in my curiosity.

-Luc

TroyD

Luc,

Here is my take on how bi-wiring works:

In a biwiriable speaker there are separate power inputs (binding posts) that correspond with the frequency ranges associated with the crossover point(s). In a 2-way speaker the freqs are crossed over at a fixed point and there are binding posts to the high freqs and low freqs. You HAVE to power both of them either with birwire cables or one cable and a jumper between posts. Remove the jumper and the nonpowered side gets no power. No power no sound. How simple is that? If you accept that, then Ken's test is valid and we can agree that the RT1000i can't be biwired.

Here is Aaron's treatise on why you can't bi-wire the RT1000's:

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4641&highlight=biwiring

Read Aaron's opening post and that spells it out quite well.

IMO, I think a speaker can benefit from bi-wiring, as I said, it certainly isn't going to hurt. However, I think just how MUCH benefit is certainly open to debate.

As far as the 1000's go, very simple, call Polk Customer service and ask them if you can bi-wire them. They will tell you no. What Dan is describes is using a speaker level input to the sub. Certainly a valid hookup option but it isn't biwiring in the true sense of the word.

BDT

gidrah

tpeter - Your speakers are capable of being bi-wired. Any receiver or amp that has a speaker A/B that uses the same amp for each can be hooked to a bi-wire configuration. My receiver uses separate amps for A & B. I cannot bi-wire without bi-amping. This is a whole other can of worms that I'm not prepared to open.

A few thoughts:
As always, keep runs as short as possible.
If buy another run of speaker wire (as opposed to bi-wire cable), use your thickest on the bottom and the other on top. I'd consider some silver coated 16awg copper for the top.
Even if you just double up the wire from speaker A and remove the jumper at the speaker, you'll be removing a connection (one side of the jumper) and doubling your wire. This alone SHOULD be an improvement.

TroyD

Mark speaketh the truth....

I apologize for getting us off topic.

BDT

HBombToo

gidrah... NO BACK TALK HERE!

I guess we have some middle ground ta find?

trubluluc

To know more today than yesterday,
that is the quest.

-Luc

gidrah

If you do purchase bi-wire cables. That are only split at the speaker end, this is still NOT true bi-wiring in my opinion. Whether they're hooked to 1000s, 15s, or sun soaked Kracos. I think a better term for this would be split-wiring. It'll most likely still sound better as you're removing a connection and dealing with a company that presumably uses quality components, but that's neither here nor there.

HBombToo

split-wire it is.

Mantis I'm sure you would agree? The configuration should have a name...

I'd go further but I'm TRASHED right NOW.

RuSsMaN

Split? Jesus, let me down a few, maybe that will make sense then.....

Cheers,
Russ

organ

Gidrah, I belive the A and B speaker terminals are connected to the same amps(mains on most receivers) so both ways is pretty much the same. A lot of people say that wiring through both A and B will not eliminate the EMF generated by the woofers because the damping will not be as efficient compared to running only the A section. Have you tried bi-wiring from the A terminals? Both ways your amp will see the same impedance because of the parallel configuration.

tpeter, you should try the 2 methods and find out which wiring configuration sounds best to you. I've been playing around with bi-wiring for the past year. I find that having the metal jumpers in place produced the worst sound. I heard an improvement when I replaced the jumpers with speaker wire. I lived with that set-up for a while and then decided to try bi-wiring. I wasn't expecting to hear a differece. I just wanted to try it because I had some spare wires lying around. I was able to hear a difference immediately. The highs just blended in with the mids and lows better and sounded more laid back. I tried the single wire connection again and it sounded worse. It sounded like Polk placed the wrong tweeters in the speakers. It was brighter and too forward compared to the mids and lows. Try both ways and let us know your results.

Maurice

RuSsMaN

Just so we are clear, using 'A' and 'B' terminals off a receiver is NOT bi-wiring...., we like to call it 'ghetto (or barrio) bi-amping'...

Every bi-wire cable I've seen is 4 conductor, 2 pos, 2 neg.....

Cheers,
Rooster

gidrah

organ - I fully agree. A/B will run off the same amp and not change your impedence, but there are many benefits to bi-wiring that are mainly due to a greater conductivity.

Russ - I've seen bi-wire cables that have only one set of connetors at the amp end. I'm not a real fan of this style. I prefer two sets at each end. That's all I'm saying.

HBombToo

Fine! lets move on.

RuSsMaN

Mark, I've never seen a bi-wire cable that doesn't have just one set of connectors at the amp end.

Is that not what a bi-wire cable is? 4 conductor cable, 2 connections at amp end, 4 at speaker end?

I don't WANT to move on, the suds are flowin' like a river now.... Where did I put my whiskey...

Cheers,
Rooster

Nice sig btw Gidrah, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA