Refurb'd Denon 5803 for $7-800.......should I?

brettw22
brettw22 Posts: 7,624
edited October 2002 in Electronics
Ok......so a friend of mine can get his hands on a refurb model of the 5803 for HELLA cheap. I was curious about you guys thoughts on refurb'd stuff like this.

I haven't ever bought anything used as far as receivers go, but i would think that if it's factory spec'd, then all should be good. Granted the 90 day warranty is ****, but who really has that many problems with receivers that just sit on a shelf........

Lemme know your thoughts............Thanks
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited September 2002
    dude refurbed receivers are nothing more then brand new ones redone for warranty work...your in good shape there,not to mention Denon just got done testing the entire receiver.......but it and buy it now.

    you can't get into a flagship for 7-800 bucks thats super well below cost......**** I'm in no way looking for a receiver but for that kind of money hell Id buy 2.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited September 2002
    I must agree with mantis.....get it! Get it NOW.....
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,411
    edited September 2002
    If I where you I would let me get it :)
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
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    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited September 2002
    Check that out nascarman and myself agreeing.......whats the forum coming 2.

    Good on yeah bro!!!!:cool:
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited September 2002
    Yeah, and the weather is really strange today.....:D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • jrausch
    jrausch Posts: 510
    edited September 2002
    As long as it's not from U-bid, you’re golden. Hell a broken unit that needs fixing is worth that much. Even if you had to kick down another $500 to fix it, you could still get all of your money back, if not more. If ya got it, do it.
    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it."
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    Hell yeah, I'd snag that on principle alone. Even though it only really produces around 80wpc, 82 I think is what liv4fam bench tested it at, I think it's a great deal.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited September 2002
    I thought that someone had bench tested the 5800, not the 5803. How can a receiver that's rated for 170x5 actually only pump out 85?

    I don't get that.........
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    I don't get it either....I was being sarcastic.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited September 2002
    read the spec's again and see of anything makes any sence.

    something about 1 channel driven in an 8 ohm load at a certian khz or something....you might want to lok into it..and yes it was the avr5800 not the new avr5803.......

    All channels driven at full bandwith was????????
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    Key Features:
    170 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD
    dual 32-bit SHARC processors for surround decoding (THX Surround EX, DTS-ES, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic, DTS Neo:6, and ALPHA 24 processing

    .....sounds like full range specs to me.


    That's from Crutchfield, so I'm going to assume that they got that from Denon.

    Also, and this is nitpicking, even if they did give the specs at 1Khz, I doubt the disparity would be THAT big (~90wpc)

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited September 2002
    Hey, bench test tells me all I need to know. I wonder what gear it was measured with? A park bench? A bench press?

    ;)

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited September 2002
    Also, and this is nitpicking, even if they did give the specs at 1Khz, I doubt the disparity would be THAT big (~90wpc)
    One would add about 10% from 20-20 to 1Khz....
    I wonder what gear it was measured with? A park bench? A bench press?
    Probably a bench press.....I was bench pressing over 400wpc 15 years ago....:D
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • PETERNG
    PETERNG Posts: 918
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by brettw22
    Ok......so a friend of mine can get his hands on a refurb model of the 5803 for HELLA cheap.
    Lemme know your thoughts............Thanks

    this is BS...whoever sold this must be arrested....
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by PETERNG
    this is BS...whoever sold this must be arrested....

    huh?
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited September 2002
    seem to be missing all channels driven.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    170 watts x 7 into 8 ohms

    seems like all channels driven to me.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited September 2002
    At 85 bench press wpc......
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2002
    I think what Mantis is getting at is there is a difference between the rated specs for each channel, and the rated specs for each channel when they are all driven at the same time.

    For example, all 5 channels on my Kenwood are 100W RMS 20-20K @ <0.09% THD. While that specification is impressive, what they don't tell you is that this is with each channel tested separately.

    Run all five channels into a test load at the same time, and my amplifier won't make a true 500 watts. According to that website which bench tested all these HT receivers, mine runs out of steam somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-60 watts per channel when they are all driven simultaneously.

    This may look bad on paper, but it's really only about 3 dB less than it would be at a true 100 watts. Also, how often in the real world (i.e., watching a DVD) will a HT receiver or amplifier be called on to deliver its rated power into all five channel at the same exact time? Not often I would guess. Also, who pushes their rigs to the max anyway? I like to give my amp about 15 dB of headroom for peaks and to avoid clipping. Even then it's damn loud.

    Regardless, the new buzz phrase on the block is quoting the rated power and specifications for the amp with "all channels driven simultaneously".

    Unless the Denon in question was rated that way by the manufacturer, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it only made 85-90 WPC with all channels driven at once. Again, this is only 3 dB difference than the rated power of 170 watts and would be all but inaudible except under extremely demanding source material.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • PETERNG
    PETERNG Posts: 918
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by brettw22


    huh?

    dam it!!! do I need to say out loud? if it's too good to be true, it's not true, it's a total BS... The Denon 5803 is also a new model and Denon put it out in the market not too long ago, within that short period of times, and they already have a full stock of refurb items available for $800-$900? Also if this is the Denon 's top of the line receiver, why do they already have so many returns and unhappy customers as the results? I think we've done with this subject here...:mad:
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    Doc,

    I would agree with what you are saying, and to be honest, I was just picking on Dan (good heartedly). As far as amp power ratings, I do take them with a huge grain of salt.

    In all reality, as I said before, it's a fairly moot point because under most normal applications, 50wpc rms is more than sufficient.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by PETERNG
    dam it!!! do I need to say out loud? if it's too good to be true, it's not true, it's a total BS... The Denon 5803 is also a new model and Denon put it out in the market not too long ago, within that short period of times, and they already have a full stock of refurb items available for $800-$900? Also if this is the Denon 's top of the line receiver, why do they already have so many returns and unhappy customers as the results? I think we've done with this subject here...:mad:

    Peter, I would recommend a more loose fitting pair of underwear.

    My friend has an A/V business that he does on the side and I'm buying this from his wholesaler, so why are you all P.O.'d? My question wasn't whether this was upsetting to anyone....just what the verdict of refurbished equipment was.

    Thanks to those that have responded......and not been so uptight about it. :)
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  • liv4fam
    liv4fam Posts: 311
    edited September 2002
    Listen Dr.Spec is 100% correct.TroyD you got it from the spec's and no real world testing.And once again your talking out of where the sun don't shine.Now that I'm thinking about it I think where you talk is where you end and nascarman starts.Are you 2 the same people or what?
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  • liv4fam
    liv4fam Posts: 311
    edited September 2002
    Can you feel that..HUH HUH HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • liv4fam
    liv4fam Posts: 311
    edited September 2002
    CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT IT.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    I guess we got Mr. Hyde today. Did we forget our medication again?

    OK, so why are we not suing Denon for false advertising?

    More to the point, is it really relevant to anything?

    BDT

    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2002
    Also, maybe in one of your lucid moments, how about giving a rundown and maybe a review of some of your gear, other than the receiver which you said sucks? I mean, you've been pretty critical of everyone else's, so I figure you got to have some good stuff.

    Also, don't start with the 'I've demoed or I've installed.....' biz, because it doesn't count, if it's in an audio shop, any of us can do the same. Second, as you love to point out, there is nothing like experience.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited September 2002
    Nit picking the bench specs of Denons $4000 flagship reciever.:confused:
    I would love to own that beast. Who in the hell really thinks that they would be driving 7 rt/lsi speakers at a true 170 watts of power? Blown speakers and bleeding ears!;)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited September 2002
    nit picking wasn't the intention just pointing out the fact that spec's aren't the be all end all dude.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • PETERNG
    PETERNG Posts: 918
    edited September 2002
    Spec's that posted by the manufcturer are not always true and sometimes are misleading. If you want to ask them any question to verify, their answer will be: "those spec's are based on our testing standards", and nobody know what those standards were. I think just post is a completed joke. "My friend has an A/V business that he does on the side and I'm buying this from his wholesaler, so why are you all P.O.'d? " if this what you said is true, Denon will probably terminate his contract to represent them as authorized dealer.
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