SACD / DVD-A / DTRS disks

Systems
Systems Posts: 14,873
edited July 2007 in Electronics
What is the going opinion now-a-days on which one offers the best sound. I have a few DVD-A and DTS disks now and they all don’t seem to be that different to me. I want to start developing a collection of one type. I just found out yesterday when trying that my PS3 does not play DTS disks but my Sony DVD changer does (as well as my car's system). But my car system does not play SACD's. Seems like they all play DVD-A. Does one really offer the best quality or is that another one of those things like Blue Ray and HDDVD that people cant decide on?
Testing
Testing
Testing
Post edited by Unknown User on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«13

Comments

  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited June 2007
    I think both DVD-A's & SACD's have comparable sound I can't tell the difference. DTS is available only on DVD-A's as far as I know.

    Both formats are outstanding. Unless you have a multi format player, they all won't play nicely together on every machine.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    SACD is the only true high rez format. DVD-A can be, but it's not guaranteed. DTS is NOT a hi-rez format. Almost all SACD's are hybrid, meaning they have a 2 channel redbook layer, which will play in any CD player although the redbook layer is not hi-rez.

    The over all sound quality is very dependent on what you are using for playback. The PS3 and Sony DVD player aren't going to give you everything hi-rez has to offer.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • G-2
    G-2 Posts: 533
    edited June 2007
    SACD is our preference as well. We try to get them in Hybrid format (so they'll play on an SACD player or a regular CD player). DVD-A is good but more suited to using music with video. Just our $.02
    Home Theater
    Chane     A3rx-c's, A2rc-c, A1rx-c's|Miller & Kreisel V-125's|Sony XBR65X810C 65" 4K LED TV|
    Earthquake Cinenova Grande-5|Pioneer Elite - VSX-84TXSi-AVR|TRIPPLITE LCR2400|
    Ultrasonic Amp Stand|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables|

    2 - Channel
    Polk     RTA 12c's w/RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills resistors (full mod)|Turntable|
    Anthem MCA 2|Acurus Act 3 Pre Pro|Parasound P/Ph 100|Pioneer Elite N-30|Adcom GDA600|
    Premier Rack|Blue Jeans,Audioquest,Monster Cables|
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited June 2007
    All things being equal (and when's that ever going to happen?), both SACD and DVD-A can offer similarly good sound quality. SACD is usually the preference due its available catalog, ease of use, and in general compatibility with existing CD/DVD players.

    The issue with the DVD-A format is that it was designed to operate with the aid of on-screen display. For those who has a music-only system, that creates a problem on how to set up the disc for play. SACD, or more specifically the hybrid SACD, only involves inserting the disc into a player and pressing play. Hybrid SACD has 2 layers (one for CD and one for SACD) and usually the player (or its remote) will let you toggle between the 2 layers without looking at a TV monitor.

    Have to disagree with F1nut on single-layer SACDs....while almost all recent SACD releases within the 3 years or so have been hybrid SACDs, early ones were single layer discs. Ignoring single-layer SACDs will mean missing out on some important SACD titles such as those from Sony (i.e. Michael Jackson's Thriller, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jeff Beck, Journey, Billy Joel, etc.) and Universal Music (i.e. Bon Jovi, Muddy Waters, etc.)

    The PS3 is compatible with SACD despite Sony not advertising it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    Have to disagree with F1nut on single-layer SACDs....

    Danny, maybe I missed it, but I don't recall ever saying to ignore single layer SACD's.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,251
    edited June 2007
    Silverti wrote: »
    What is the going opinion now-a-days on which one offers the best sound.
    For me, SACD.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited June 2007
    DVD-A is really touch-and-go with the SQ....I have a few, and the only two that stick out to me as having high SQ are Elton John Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and Sheryl Crow The Globe Sessions.......I was pissed, her version of Sweet Child of Mine isn't on it....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited June 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    Danny, maybe I missed it, but I don't recall ever saying to ignore single layer SACD's.

    Sorry, F1....don't know where that notion popped into my head. :(
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    LOL....it's all good.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • joeparaski
    joeparaski Posts: 1,865
    edited June 2007
    Where do you guys buy your music from mostly? Online or at box stores?

    Joe
    Amplifiers: 1-SAE Mark IV, 4-SAE 2400, 1-SAE 2500, 2-SAE 2600, 1-Buttkicker BKA 1000N w/2-tactile transducers. Sources: Sony BDP CX7000es, Sony CX300/CX400/CX450/CX455, SAE 8000 tuner, Akai 4000D R2R, Technics 1100A TT, Epson 8500UB with Carada 100". Speakers:Polk SDA SRS, 3.1TL, FXi5, FXi3, 2-SVS 20-29, Yamaha, SVS center sub. Power:2-Monster HTS3500, Furman M-8D & RR16 Plus. 2-SAE 4000 X-overs, SAE 5000a noise reduction, MSB Link DAC III, MSB Powerbase, Behringer 2496, Monarchy DIP 24/96.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    joeparaski wrote: »
    Where do you guys buy your music from mostly? Online or at box stores?

    Joe

    I usually get regular CD's and DVD's / BR at local stores like Best Buy / Fred Myers / Circuit City.

    I buy the specialized stuff like DTS/DVD-A/SACD from Amazon.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    Joe, online at places like CD Universe, Music Direct, Elusive Disc, Acoustic Sounds and eBay.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2007
    DTS only means 5.1 discrete channels. SACD is also 5.1 Discrete channels. I don't have enough DVDA's to make a fair judgment, but I do have some SACD's that are great.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    Slight correction, all SACD's have a hi-rez 2 channel layer, but not all have 5.1.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    Slight correction, all SACD's have a hi-rez 2 channel layer, but not all have 5.1.

    Yes I have heard of this, but have never seen this.
    Thanks F1nut
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jmwest1970
    jmwest1970 Posts: 846
    edited June 2007
    From what I've read SACD used when playing though a transport that sends the signal via digital output. I believe it was tated that it's a copyright issue. Is this correct? Can SACD only be played when using analog output of the transport?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    Can SACD only be played when using analog output of the transport?

    That's correct. Analog connections sound better anyway.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited June 2007
    There're a few SACD players that can output the DSD bitstream through a digital output, but only through proprietary connections. Any these are generally very expensive machines.

    Analog is the way to go.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • fatchowmein
    fatchowmein Posts: 2,637
    edited June 2007
    Are most SACD players good enough to equal the quality of a transport playing redbook cd's using an external DAC like the Benchmark? Can I get away with say a $100 or $150 player (been testing the Oppo 970 but it isn't mine) or do I have to look at players in the $500 or $1000 price range?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited June 2007
    fatchowmein wrote: »
    Are most SACD players good enough to equal the quality of a transport playing redbook cd's using an external DAC like the Benchmark? Can I get away with say a $100 or $150 player (been testing the Oppo 970 but it isn't mine) or do I have to look at players in the $500 or $1000 price range?

    Just because SACD has the potential to sound better than CD doesn't guarantee it will always be the case. In general, you do get what you pay for.

    Isn't the Benchmark DAC something like $900.00?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Phil Dawson
    Phil Dawson Posts: 288
    edited June 2007
    DTS is a higher resolution format than PCM which is used on CDs. DTS can also be used for 5.1 and the DTS stands for digital theater sound. The format is put on a standard CD. It is not a lossless format like SACD or DVD-A but it still sounds very good (better than CD IMHO) The format is in between CD and SACD/DVD-A. Bonny Raitt's Road Time 2 disk set in DTS is wonderful.
    Cheers, Phil
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,815
    edited June 2007
    My $.02

    When you compress something and then bring it back, not all of the info makes it. DTS, thanks, but no thanks. Besides, any good CDP upsamples to at least 24/96, the better ones to 24/192 and no compression.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • MGPK
    MGPK Posts: 88
    edited June 2007
    Phil Dawson wrote: »
    DTS is a higher resolution format than PCM which is used on CDs. DTS can also be used for 5.1 and the DTS stands for digital theater sound. The format is put on a standard CD. It is not a lossless format like SACD or DVD-A but it still sounds very good (better than CD IMHO) The format is in between CD and SACD/DVD-A. Bonny Raitt's Road Time 2 disk set in DTS is wonderful.
    Cheers, Phil

    DTS is actually a lossy codec. Although the music CD's that are encoded with DTS sound quite good, PCM will sound better.
    System:

    H/K AVR430 Receiver
    Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
    Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
    Jamo E855 Tower speakers
    Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
    Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Phil Dawson
    Phil Dawson Posts: 288
    edited June 2007
    DTS - digital theater sound was introduced as a alternative to Dolby Digital for 5.1 movie soundtracks. Yes it is compressed and doesn't sound as good as DVD-A or SACD. It does sound better in many cases than Dolby Digital. As a music format it is probably down for the count but at one point when DVD discs were very expensive it offered an alternative for 5.1 music since you can put it on a standard CD. Just as a side note DVD-A uses MLP (meridian lossless packing) which is a lossless compression codec.
    Phil
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited June 2007
    I don't care if DTS is lossy or not, it sounds GREAT!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    Ive noticed yesterday after pluging in my rears after a year or so of just running 5.1 that DD PLII doesnt send sound back there but DTS does.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,337
    edited June 2007
    I think the key here is let your ears be the judge. SACD is the format with most potential. But... that being said, I have heard cds sound better than some SACDS and some DVDAs sound incredibile. ELPs brain salad surgery is one of those. DTS as a rule seems to sound better to me than most dolby digital tracks.

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,251
    edited June 2007
    snow wrote:
    SACD is the format with most potential. But... that being said, I have heard cds sound better than some SACDS and some DVDAs sound incredible.
    I can kinda agree with you on some CD's sounding better than SACD, but I would like to make an addendum to the agreement. That being that some recordings of particular CD's can sound better than some recordings of SACD, but when given the same album and comparing CD's to SACD's/XRCD's/HDCD's,DVDA's, etc., [Dire Straights, Brothers in Arms for example], the same recording sounds better and has a higher resolution with SACD than the other formats.

    I have been pleasantly surprised with certain XRCD's and DVD-A's though [Gotta admit], they do sound pretty damn good.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Phil Dawson
    Phil Dawson Posts: 288
    edited July 2007
    DTS supports a higher bit rate than Dolby Digital so all things being equal more information means less compression and thus better sound. We should all remember that a recording on any format can be either great or terrible and that the most important thing is the music.
    Phil
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited July 2007
    Man, formats like DTS have been out for almost 10 years and Ill tell you what, the music selection for all 3 just suck. I have 4 disks between them all and I can’t find any more period.

    DTS: Police & Sting
    DVD-A: Metallica & Foreigner.

    That’s about it. Of course tehres good DVD-Video disks all around but sometimes you want just audio.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter