New 2 Channel Rig

sophie

i got the last of my parts to my 2 channel rig Wensday and got them hooked up in my parents bedroom for a wile until i get my room rearranged. i have:
Doug's M 10 B's (upgraded tweets)
adcom GFA 5500 amp
adcom GTP 400 pre/tuner
adcom GCD 600 cdp
Gold plated RCA'S
monster 14G speaker wire


i have listened to it for 4-5 hours and it doesn't have much of a sound stage and doesn't image very well. is this because of how it is set up or is there something that is holding the rest of the stuff back? the cdp has balanced outputs, so should i try hooking that right to the amp without using the pre?

and what is the best setup, speakers from walls, speakers from eachother, listing spot from speakers?


also thanks to everyone that has helped me so far.

strider

Seems to me you have a decent set up component-wise. AFAIK, balanced outputs refer to XLR connectors, hopefully someone else will correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, just a different type of connector vs RCA cables, which are unbalanced. So no, I wouldn't hook the CDP up to the amp directly. How do you have the speakers oriented? A good starting point would be forming an equilateral triangle with your listening position as the point in the triangle. Speakers should be out from the wall a bit (12 or so inches), with nothing between them breaking the plane of the front of the speakers. Then start angling the speakers towards your listening spot. Keep at it 'til they sound the best.

dkg999

Nice system! Imaging and soundstage are probably most related to speaker placement. I would try to get the 10's about 6 feet apart, slightly toe'd in towards your listening position, about 12" to 20" off the floor, and at least 12" between them and the back wall, about 2 to 3 feet from side walls.

Crank that **** up and enjoy!

sophie

strider wrote: »

Seems to me you have a decent set up component-wise. AFAIK, balanced outputs refer to XLR connectors, hopefully someone else will correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, just a different type of connector vs RCA cables, which are unbalanced. So no, I wouldn't hook the CDP up to the amp directly. How do you have the speakers oriented? A good starting point would be forming an equilateral triangle with your listening position as the point in the triangle. Speakers should be out from the wall a bit (12 or so inches), with nothing between them breaking the plane of the front of the speakers. Then start angling the speakers towards your listening spot. Keep at it 'til they sound the best.

on the back of the cdp there are 2 sets of rca's 1 labeled balanced and 1 labeled unbalanced. in the manual it says that the one labeled balanced is effected by the volume control, and that it can be used without a preamp.

strider

sophie wrote: »

on the back of the cdp there are 2 sets of rca's 1 labeled balanced and 1 labeled unbalanced. in the manual it says that the one labeled balanced is effected by the volume control, and that it can be used without a preamp.

Huh. I'm assuming that the volume control they're referring to is on the cdp then?

Pretty cool. I just checked out the owner's manual on their site. You could run it that way to see how it sounds, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it fixing your concern.

Bill Ayotte

strider wrote: »

Huh. I'm assuming that the volume control they're referring to is on the cdp then?

Yeah, most of the time they are called FIXED and VARIABLE.....At least that is what I have seen.....

sophie

just went and looked bill is right. it was late wed. night when i hooked it up and hadn't looked at it since.

heiney9

You have the start of a very nice system. Now part of the fun is getting it tweaked just right to play well in your room. With those components you should have no problem with imaging and soundstage. You need to get the speakers set-up so you are right in the middle when you are listening. Smallish rooms are problematic for getting the best imaging and soundstaging. It's not the gear, that is very nice for a first system.

H9

strider

Bill Ayotte wrote: »

Yeah, most of the time they are called FIXED and VARIABLE.....At least that is what I have seen.....

Shew. I thought that's what I had read, but I was starting to distrust my eyes......

George Grand

I'd use that preamp for awhile until you learn a little bit more about what you're doing.

Using the "variable" signal strength outputs on the back of the cd player directly into a power amp is okay. You lose all the switching capability in the preamp as a result. You also have a pretty "dangerous" rig the way I see it. Your volume control is the cd remote and sometimes that can be dicey.

Doubtful that the removal of the preamp will yield the results you seek.

amulford

I concur.

sucks2beme

You might want to double check to make sure you didn't flip a speaker
polarity. Having one right and one flipped will drop down the bass and
screw up the soundstage.

Refefer

sucks2beme wrote: »

You might want to double check to make sure you didn't flip a speaker
polarity. Having one right and one flipped will drop down the bass and
screw up the soundstage.

Good call. Out of phase speakers have no soundstage to speak of

sophie

im almost ready to move the stuff to my room but am leaving for a Peter Frampton concert in a few minuets so i don't know if i will get it done tonight or tomorrow. im sure i will have a few ?'s for you guys before i have everything set up right.

Payton

Refefer

sophie wrote: »

im almost ready to move the stuff to my room but am leaving for a Peter Frampton concert in a few minuets so i don't know if i will get it done tonight or tomorrow. im sure i will have a few ?'s for you guys before i have everything set up right.

Payton

Enjoy! We are just a URL away.

engtaz

Let us know how the Peter Frampton concert was.

sophie

the concert was good. went by really fast, and there wasn't a ton of people there. if he is going to by near any of you i would defenetly(sp?) try and go.

didn't get anything done after the concert last night so i need to finish moving stuff then when my mom wakes up i will move everything down to my room.

Payton

sophie

got everything moved into my room speakers are a bout 5.5 feet apart, measuring center to center. and 1.5 feet from the side walls. got a funny shaped room so i will take a pic later today.

sophie

got my speaker stands built so the speakers are now 16" off the floor. how should i adjust them i have them 20" from the walls and about 44" apart (measuring to side of the cabinets). how far in should they be angled for them to sound the best? right now they are angled 10*-20* and they are not imaging much at all.

reeltrouble1

Ok all you Adcom guys, its time for you to help the man or forever hold your peace because it sure as hell is not the speakers. You do have the phasing correct??

Sophie,

It would be best if you get the speakers up 8 inches with 3 degrees of tilt back. Your toe in amount depends on your room, just play around a bit, start with a equalateral triangle with speakers and listening postion if you can.

My 10's image like nobody's business.

RT1

heiney9

Well I don't want to sound like a snob but he is only like 16 years old are you sure Sophie you know what imaging is? IMO, the older Monitors shouldn't need to be toe'd in at all, but if you prefer perhaps only slightly. 5 feet apart is good, the proximity to the outside walls is not the best situation. Are you able to sit in the sweet spot free of any other furnishings in the room?

What kind of music are you playing? Metallica or Rap or that type of high energy music usually isn't recorded all that well so there is no such thing as clarity or imaging.

Put in something like John Mayer's new cd and it should sound really good. I highly doubt it's the amp unless it has issues. Room ambience and placement are the keys to achieving great imaging. My guess is the room is too small, unusual shape and the set-up of speakers isn't ideal.

It takes a bit of work and experimenting sometimes to get it to work out. I heard those exact 10b's you bought from Doug at the Chicago PF and they sounded fantastic.

H9

heiney9

Also the key to great imaging is trying to be in the equalateral triangle. If the speakers are over 5 feet apart but you can only listen from 2 feet in front then that's not going to be an ideal situation. So if you can only listen 3 feet away then the speakers should be about 3 feet apart (from each other), etc.

H9

P.s. 10-20 degree angles on the stands is probably too much there is a thread in the troubleshooting area that has the specs for the original M10 stands look at those instructions and see how close your's are to those.

Music Joe

The 5500 images very well in either A or AB operation, a little dark.
Mids and top octave sound most coherent and liquid in A.
Are the hottest first reflection points ceiling about 1/2 way between you and speakers plus area to the left of the left speaker and vice versa treated with diffusion/absorbsion?
The GTP 400 would be my suspect.

RuSsMaN

Monitor 10's don't image very well to begin with. It's a horrible design to have the drivers side by side playing exactly the same frequency range. Polk knew it, but the general public loved them and most chose the bigger bass and increased power handling of the 10's, over the stable imaging of the 7's.

Cheers,
Russ

heiney9

The GTP 400 isn't the latest and greatest but it should still give you some decent sound. Yes, in a purely audiophile system the GTP 400 would be the weak link but for what he has and is looking to do it's more than up to the task. Speaker placement and set-up is still the number 1 issue here. Pics would help out a lot Sophie.

H9

sophie

i will try and get pics tonight. i was listening to styx greatest hits, u2 under a blood red sky, pinkfloyd the final cut. i have beenplaying with the amount the speakers are toed in and can get the lead singer to center but then everything seems to come from the speakers.

heiney9

sophie wrote: »

i will try and get pics tonight. i was listening to styx greatest hits, u2 under a blood red sky, pinkfloyd the final cut. i have beenplaying with the amount the speakers are toed in and can get the lead singer to center but then everything seems to come from the speakers.

Well you are listeneing to good music and getting the singer dead center (if it's recorded that way) certainly means you've accomplished something. Your monitors will never be SDA's . I'm afraid you'll will never get completely away from the music sounding like it's still coming from a box of speakers.

Certainly having a larger listening area will help the soundstage an imaging. Perhaps when you move into a larger room things will open up. Space is important for what you are trying to achieve. My bet is your listening space is just too small to get the kind of imaging and sounstage cues you expect.

The soundwaves and reflections aren't allowed to "breathe" so to speak and all your near field listening is going to sound very much like it's coming from a box.

You are on your way, however.

H9

steveinaz

I've found that the vast majority of the speakers I have owned have all sounded best with about 1-2" of toe-in, 6-8 ft apart.

sophie

after more listening i have noticed that if the singer is centered almost everything els comes from the left of that. is that normal?

reeltrouble1

At the Maryland Fest Matt told me the 10's are his favorite speaker from the entire monitor line, high praise no doubtl from the man himself.

RT1

RuSsMaN

Due to sales, they probably were. At CES I sat down with Matt, Al, Paul, Stu.....well, you already heard my paraphrase above.

Perhaps horrible is too harsh, how about a 'less than ideal' design? Is that more PC for the Monitor 10 crowd?

Cheers,
Russ