How Much Better Can Your System Possibly Get?

Early B.
Early B. Posts: 7,900
edited June 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm postulating here, but it seems that the more upgrades you make the better your system sounds until it reaches a critical mass where it begins to sound worse, not because of the system's components, per se, but because of the limitations of the media (CDs, records, etc.). As we know, sometimes upgrades make mediocre CDs sound worse. I'd imagine there comes a point when a significant number of your CDs start to sound like crap, then it's time to "downgrade" a notch or two.

Has anyone experienced this yet?
HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

"God grooves with tubes."
Post edited by Early B. on
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited June 2007
    Yep I have a bunch of Cd's I used to love. Now they sound like crap. One good thing is that it brought me to listen to other kinds of music that I would have never listened to before. Like Allison Krause, lots of jazz, and rekindled a flame for classic country, and rock.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited June 2007
    Early,

    Not sure if there's a critical mass... but there certainly is a plateau at which improvements are hard to come by BUT an alteration (more of a horizontal move) may be a welcomed guest.... and thus, keeping the hobby alive.

    As for me, there's a whole lot of improvements to make. Starting with room treatments and vinyl.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited June 2007
    My main rig it was the Modwright pre, sounded better then my passive TVC with good recordings but was less forgiving of poor recordings. Problem was that a lot of what I listen to are bad recordings, and I just didn't enjoy listening as much as I was limited. I felt the Modwright was a better unit then my current pre, but it was to revealing for my tastes.

    For me I am at that point because of my choice in music, its not going to get any better. I have a few cds that I just don't enjoy on my main rig anymore because they are of such poor quality. For about 90% of what I listen to I can't hear much of a difference between my main rig and my PC rig, and with 50% or so I can't tell the difference between these and my basement setup.

    I have plenty of Jazz and Classical cds...I just never listen to them. I buy them because they will sound great and they just sit in a drawer unused.

    Jared
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    I'm scared to death to even think about it. Improvements usually equate to spending more & more money. I'm at the point now where my system is ever so satisfing to me musically. I just have to stop visiting Stephen Monte at his Quest for Sound store. He's got the big brother to my AAD 2001 monitors, the AAD 2003 flagship floorstanders. They are a calling me, but so far I'm fighting the temptation. Time for another beer!!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2007
    1,000,000,000,000,000 times better
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited June 2007
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    I'm scared to death to even think about it. Improvements usually equate to spending more & more money. I'm at the point now where my system is ever so satisfing to me musically. I just have to stop visiting Stephen Monte at his Quest for Sound store. He's got the big brother to my AAD 2001 monitors, the AAD 2003 flagship floorstanders. They are a calling me, but so far I'm fighting the temptation. Time for another beer!!


    Aw, c'mon. You gotta go after those 2003's. Don't fight the temptation. Just do it.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    Early B. wrote: »
    Aw, c'mon. You gotta go after those 2003's. Don't fight the temptation. Just do it.

    I would, but after writing the check for the Jazz at the Pawnshop CD's that I bought from you I'm broke!!!! LOL ;)
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • crossroads
    crossroads Posts: 32
    edited June 2007
    With my income now no way, later may be but I'll forget about it :D
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  • jm1
    jm1 Posts: 618
    edited June 2007
    I have been there for a while.

    I don’t consider that my system sounds worse with mediocre recordings, but it is able to accurately reproduce what is present on a recording. This wouldn’t be a failing of the system, but would be of the specific recording. Well recorded material, regardless of the chosen media, sounds fantastic and I would dearly miss this experience if I made changes to moderate the system’s performance.

    I am comforted knowing that the system reproduces every last detail from brilliant as well as mediocre recordings. This does not mean I do not listen to mediocre recordings, but that I enjoy them for the musical content they provide regardless of quality.

    If I do anything to the acoustic environment or system, it will be to further enhance and refine the overall sonic characteristics.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
    Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Early B. wrote: »
    Has anyone experienced this yet?
    Yes and it pisses me off! Such is life.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    In many ways I enjoy my system a lot less today than I did years ago because of the topic of this thread. I can shed some light on it that many can't as I tend to keep the old equipment and try it later. (In my opinion this is the only way to accurately track the quality differences in a meaningful way). I've reassembled several of those older systems which I thought were golden and gave them another shot. As it turns out they were not golden. Not at all. I normally find some euphoric sound that tricked me into bliss. Later on after getting away from whatever the sound was I find it to sound like an effect, not audio bliss. I've done this at least 5 or 6 times.

    So, in conclusion to my testing I say you have to keep going if you are too find true sound.

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited June 2007
    madmax wrote: »
    .....I can shed some light on it that many can't as I tend to keep the old equipment........
    madmax

    Need any help cleaning your closet????
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    HTrookie wrote: »
    Need any help cleaning your closet????

    Periodically. :D
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2007
    Synergy, remember that word?
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited June 2007
    I think if I had a dedicated room it would get a lot better.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited June 2007
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    I think if I had a dedicated room it would get a lot better.

    Yeah, but you would ruin it with a TV and surround speakers :p
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited June 2007
    HTrookie wrote: »
    Yeah, but you would ruin it with a TV and surround speakers :p

    Not if I had TWO rooms!:D






    ...and I would ruin it with a projector and surround speakers!
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited June 2007
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    Not if I had TWO rooms!:D



    Touche.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited June 2007
    It's a strange paradox. As your well recorded CD's begin to sound better and better, your mediocre CD's sound worse and worse.

    I went thru this when I did my total system replacement in 2000. For 14 years I had 2 bridged Soundcraftsmen amps, Yamaha C-85 preamp, Bose 901 VI's, a Yamaha CDX-910 CDP. The system was very easy to listen to. It made everything sound good--but definitely not the last word in tonal accuracy or resolution. Such is the nature, and success story of the 901, and the soothing quality of early Yamaha equipment.

    When I purchased a whole new system at the time: Parasound HCA-1500A, and PHP-850, Cambridge audio D500SE, and Pinnacle Classic Gold Tower speakers; it took some getting used to. All of a sudden, mediocre CD's were now moved to the horrible category, but the good stuff sounded great.

    Moral of the story? A fine audio system is like a microscope; both the good AND bad are pulled out of hiding; the paradox I talked about above. Recording flaws show themselves as well as recording successes. Kind of a "be careful what you wish for" scenario. You have to decide for yourself if you're willing to live with the bad, in order to capture the resolution of the good.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited June 2007
    BTW, on the original question; whenever someone uses the words "how it sounds" when talking about music, they either are very close or already in the audiophile field. Probably all of us are already there.

    To enjoy music pure and simply because you like the music, you don't really need a lot of sound quality.


    yes, I know; wrong thread.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited June 2007
    I'm at a point where I would have to spend a ton of money to get a significant improvement for both my theater and 2 channel.

    look at my AR9's, yep....there old, but how much would I have to spend to get an improvement? especially new. I love how my system sounds, and apparently going the passive preamp route was a better move than i thought.

    my audio purchases compared to the past have literally come to a standstill. I recently picked up a Cal audio DAC because its one of the things I;ve never tried, ut that was a modest purchase at best. got it pretty cheap.

    I'm going to happy where i am for a while. both systems do what I need them to do at any volume I need it to do it.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited June 2007
    I found with a better rig ----

    I enjoy the majority of my music
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited June 2007
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I found with a better rig ----

    I enjoy the majority of my music

    This means you haven't reached that plateau yet. I see more upgrades in your future.:p
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2007
    Every time I do an upgrade that makes my speakers or my rig more accurate, I have that problem except it is with my turntable. So far I've had to change the resistive load on my cartridge twice, I've had to change the SRA a number of times and tweak the pitch. What sounded good before the upgrade or tweak would sound bright or hollow afterwards. I just upgraded my crossovers and they are in about 90th hour of burn in and I can already tell that I'm going to have to change the load on my cartridge and probably mess with a benchmark VTA/SRA.

    Concerning CDs, I usually don't do any critical listening with them. I mostly use CDs for backround or a jolt while doing some kind of work.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    I mostly use CDs for backround or a jolt while doing some kind of work.

    They work nice for uneven couch legs too. :D
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    Early B. wrote: »
    This means you haven't reached that plateau yet. I see more upgrades in your future.:p
    Sid, I have to agree with him on that one, based on experience. If you ignore us, you'll be happier, though [to a point]. You'll still have $$$ for whatever it is that you do too. Ehhh, just ignore us.;)
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited June 2007
    My system would sound better if I had 3000 posts!:D :D
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited June 2007
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    My system would sound better if I had 3000 posts!:D :D

    Hahaha! Nice...:D
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited June 2007
    I started out with a briefcase turntable in plaid with a handful of 45's, I should quit while I was ahead.
    V
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  • fatchowmein
    fatchowmein Posts: 2,637
    edited June 2007
    Not there yet but, hopefully, I'll get close enough one day that I'll spend 99% of my time looking for music and 1% reading equipment reviews. Kinda like buying a Core 2 Duo system for Internet surfing, one day, I'll realize, "hey, why am I upgrading?"

    Until that day, I'll try to enjoy the journey and attend some concerts.
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