?'s with my setup lsi15's

seanc100

I think I have finally settled on a setup but I still have some questions.
The setup "so far" includes

Yamaha-rxv661 rcvr --- 399.00 http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=547398&CTID=5000300.html?CNTID=547398&CTID=5000300
lsi15's front speakers --- 1350.00 pr
csi3 center speaker ---- 165.00
ts800ic rear speakers --- 360.00 pr
velodyne spl800 sub ---- 850.00

I was also int. in the psw1000 sub but it was blown at the store and I could not hear it but I was told that the much smaller velodyne sub was a bit better.

I was originally going to go with rti10's for the fronts but decided last minute to opt for the lsi15's. My main question is... will that receiver handle the lsi15's? if not what receiver will... or what kind of amp should I get? If I can get away without using the amp that would be great as this setup is pushing my budget allready. Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated!

liordra

I'd go with a separate amp for the fronts. a nice Stereo power amp would make your 15's shine.

taking under consideration that you are already pushing your budget
Cambridge Audio has some affordable Stereo amps.
I'd consider also Outlaw M-2200 mono blocks. they an inexpensive and powerful enough for the LSI's.

danger boy

the CSi 3 center channel speaker won't match the LSi15's sonic wise.. two different tweeters. it may sound odd mixing the two.

Go with your original plan of the RTi10's and get yourself an amp instead of the LSi's. the 10's will match your center.

george daniel

Just my .02,, but I think that you will be happier with a 2 ch amp for the the 15's,should be easy if the receiver has "pre" outputs. Look for something that has 200 watts/ch and pay attention to the "current". A high current amp with decent power will make those 15's sing. Have fun.:)

Sherardp

danger boy wrote: »

the CSi 3 center channel speaker won't match the LSi15's sonic wise.. two different tweeters. it may sound odd mixing the two.

Go with your original plan of the RTi10's and get yourself an amp instead of the LSi's. the 10's will match your center.

I was wondering about this, for the price of the LSi15s you can get the rti12s and add the amp with a little more coin.

liordra

another thing ... I am not sure that the Yamaha can handle a 4 Ohm speaker like the 15

MSALLA

Either switch to an Lsic for the center or go with the Rti's for the fronts.
I think that yammi has pre outs. You can get a good used 2-channel amp used for under $400.

seanc100

I went ahead and bought the setup above. I was told the yamaha 661 can be bi-amped so the lsi15's will get twice the power. does that make sense? im only using 5.1 so the other 2 channels will go to the fronts. wont be able to set them up though until I get into my new house in about a month. its torture! Im now thinking about taking back the velodyne spl-800 and getting a bigger sub. maybe the spl1200r or 1500r. Will there be a big difference? any recomendations?

hockeyboy

Get an SVS sub. I am crazy happy with mine. You can email them with your setup for recommendations.

G-2

hockeyboy wrote: »

Get an SVS sub. I am crazy happy with mine. You can email them with your setup for recommendations.

+1000 :cool:

seanc100

Ok im taking back my velo spl-800 and im 99% sure im getting the svs pb12 plus/2! I assume this is a huge step up? my 800 weighs 33 pounds and the plus/2 weighs 140 pounds!! How would this compare to the velo spl-1500? anyone compared them or read a comparison? Also if anyone can answer my previous question about bi-amping the lsi15's with my receiver.

McLoki

bi-amping from an AVR is a waste of time. Get the separate amp as listed above (along with an LSiC center channel) or just return the 15's for RTi10's as you mentioned in your first post.

bi-amping does not double your power. It sends the same power two places. There is potentially less chance of blowing a tweeter, but your sound is not going to get much better or louder than just running it like normal (especially since your AVR feeds all channels from the same source).

If you need a mental image, think of it like this:

You have a pond that fills from an underground spring. The pond easily runs out of water from the water demands you place on it. Bi-Amping from the AVR will add another pipe leading from your house to your now empty pond, adding a separate amplifier will run a pipe to a new pond lightening the load on your original allowing it to refill properly. Which one is the better solution to solve your water problem?

Michael

tonyb

Ahhh,one of my favorite questions.Take Mcloki's advice.....his water analogy's alway's crack me up but are true to make a point.Think about what your buying and have a plan for powering it all,not what just looks cool in a magazine add.A 400$ receiver will most likely not be able to handle a 4 ohm load from the LSI's.Go get a seperate amp for those speaks.Get your read on and do a search here for more info on powering your gear and what sounds good together in the way of center channel's.Educate yourself before plunking down your hard earned coin.Don't depend on a slick salesman to point you in the right direction.

McLoki

tonyb wrote: »

Take Mcloki's advice.....his water analogy's alway's crack me up but are true to make a point.

I'm a visual guy who's typically all wet - what can I say?

MikeC78

McLoki wrote: »

I'm a visual guy who's typically all wet - what can I say?

You are a funny guy Michael!! Maybe someday we'll do the Monster/Cinepro shootout?;)

seanc100

well I want to keep the lsi's so I need to get a sep. amp and upgrade my center speaker. Im looking for the best deal on an amp, to power the 3 lsi I would need a 3ch amp or 3 outlaw m-2200 amps correct? what would be the wise choice?

MSALLA

Hit the used market. You will save a bundle and if you do your homework, you will get some great gear. You could go 3-channel, 3-monoblocks, or a stereo amp for the 15's and a monoblock for the center.

seanc100

Thanks to everyone for your help. I really do appreciate it. I am looking for the best deal possible I have spent way more then I originally thought I would but I want to do this right. I would like to get a 3ch amp or 3 mono's. If you run across a good deal please let me know!

MSALLA

There is 5 outlaw m200's on audiogon right now for around $250 each.

Yashu

NAD makes some good products that aren't too expensive. Not sure why you need a seperate amp for the center channel... that channel doesn't need the power like your two mains.

The used outlaws sound like a good deal though.

You could also consider replacing your AVR with one that wouldn't need seperate amps, again, NAD makes some 5.1 channel killers that would drive those loads.

seanc100

The used outlaws are p/u only and way out of my way so thats not an option. so you dont think I would need a sep amp for the lsi center channel, even though it is 4ohms?

cfrizz

YES you do! The center channel contains most of the info for movies, so you want to hear it loud & clear. Plus as you stated, it is a 4ohm speaker & a receiver will not like it for long at high volume & you just won't be hearing the full potential of your system.

These amps would set you up for life as far as power goes.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1183757898

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1184636847

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1183033947

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1184518622

I'm glad to see you are taking the time & spending the money to do this right the first time around!

Welcome to Club Polk.:)

seanc100 wrote: »

So you dont think I would need a sep amp for the lsi center channel, even though it is 4ohms?

Yashu

The center is used mostly for voices and image stablisation, not for explosive effects. If your mains image well, many AVRs allow you to mix the center channel into the two mains, and it can still sound great without a center at all.

What I am saying is it is going to use less power than your mains... a lot less, even at 4 ohms. If you get a 2channel amp to use for your mains, just look for something as neutral as you can find, something that will add the least of it's own color to the sound, that way the mains will still be "voiced" similarly to the center. Those LSi15s are what need the most juice by far.

cfrizz

I don't know what center channel you are using, but I know that mine has 2 woofers in it! So does the LSIC. I have certainly heard a few explosions come out of mine.

Again, they are rated at 4ohm & most receivers get stressed out with that load. It is better to be safe than sorry after spending all this money to risk it by cheaping out on the power.

So unless you have done some conclusive testing that shows that the LSIC uses A LOT LESS power, I wouldn't be putting his speakers at risk with questionable advice.

There are tons of posts on this club stating how much power the LSI's take & love & sound their best with. Do some research.

Yashu wrote: »

The center is used mostly for voices and image stablisation, not for explosive effects. If your mains image well, many AVRs allow you to mix the center channel into the two mains, and it can still sound great without a center at all.

What I am saying is it is going to use less power than your mains... a lot less, even at 4 ohms. If you get a 2channel amp to use for your mains, just look for something as neutral as you can find, something that will add the least of it's own color to the sound, that way the mains will still be "voiced" similarly to the center. Those LSi15s are what need the most juice by far.

Yashu

Yes, that is why I said the 15s need as much power as they can get and should be what the OP needs to be the most concerned with. With the load of the 15s removed from the AVR, the center is not going to be as hard to drive. His in-wall surrounds aren't drawing a huge load either.

I just think the OP should try it without the extra mono block first, and then decide from there... Money doesn't grow on trees.

seanc100

what would be a better buy of the two... 5 outlaw mono blocks new for 1200 or the used parasound HCA 2205A 5 channel amp? I ming consider 3 mono blocks but for the price of one more I get one free. If the lsic is rated to 200w and I hook it up to a 300w amp will it hurt it? Also if you run across any good 5ch amps for cheap $ let me know! oh and thanks cfrizz for the listings!

cfrizz

If you have the space & outlets for 5 amplifiers go for it. If not, get the Parasound. It's one box one outlet.

You hurt your speakers by not giving them enough power not more. The speakers will just take what they need of that power. Your ears will give out long before the speakers do.

All the amps I posted are 200wpc @ 8ohm. They can increase to 300 when driving 4ohm speakers. What it means is that you will have tons of reserves for very intense music or action scenes.

No money doesn't grow on trees, but if you are going to do this, then it should be done right. Owning good equipment is not a cheap proposition. A 5 channel 200wpc amp will most likely be the only amp he will ever get, since they last for years. He will most likely upgrade every other piece of gear before he even thinks about switching amps.

Cheaping out on the power means at the very least, he won't be getting the full benefit of his speakers, and at the very most is putting his speakers/receiver at risk. So be patient, save more money & get the right thing the first time around.

McLoki

Here is a nice Refurb NAD for $1200.

A review:
Pro audio review

Also found this comment while looking and wanted you to be aware of it

That being said, I have a NAD T973 7-channel amp with my Outlaw 990 prepro. I have been very happy with the amp. I was in a similar situation in that I have liked NAD amps in the past so that was a natural short-list choice for me for the amp. Outlaw seemed like the best value/money to me for the processor, and the T973 seemed like the best value/money to me for the amp (with some admitted bias for NAD based on history). The only downfall of the T973 to be warned of is that it has three fans and is fairly noisy. No problem for my setup because for me the amp is behind a wall, but if you have an open rack I could see where fan noise may occasionally be a problem. It looks like NAD gets around the fan noise problem on their new M25 amp (appears to be a slightly-tweaked T973) by reducing fan speed during quite passages (I bet they had to do something to fix the fan noise problem for a cert from the THX people – again just my crazy theory).

I have heard good things about NAD amps but have not used them myself. Personally I found thier T163 Preamp/processor to be a little to laid back when paired with the LSi's, but it can be corrected if you are (or know someone who is) good with a soldering iron. (Just an added thought in case thier amps are laid back sounding as well. - as I said, I have not owned one.)

Michael

Pepi28

Do what everyone else is saying except yashu, he obviously has no clue as to what he is talking about with the LSiC. It demands a lot of power just as the mains do. Just watch the first fight scene in Underworld with the center powered by the avr and then switch it over to a seperate amp and you will know what everyone is talking about.

Yashu

A 5 channel 200wpc amp will most likely be the only amp he will ever get, since they last for years. He will most likely upgrade every other piece of gear before he even thinks about switching amps

That is why I suggested NAD in the first place. Even their 5.1 AVRs have good amp sections that are going to drive 4ohm loads without so much trouble. Their 5 channel standalone amps are just about perfect for LSi HT.

seanc100

Im a little confused with the specs of the NAD 7ch amp. says 140w x 7
or 390w x 2 4ohm
If I got theis amp how much power will my 3 4ohm lsi's get?

Also what do you guys think about behringers amps? They are 2ch and they seem like the best deal out there.

The behringer a500 ($180) new and the EP1500 ($275) new

http://www.behringer.com/A500/index.cfm?lang=eng

http://www.behringer.com/EP1500/index.cfm?lang=eng

these are the links for the behringer amps, how do they look?