really dumb question about 2 chan amps
JimBRICK
Posts: 1,543
Ok I have a question thats been bugging me as I look for an amp.
Why do some 2 channel amps come with 4 sets of speaker terminals?
is this for bi amping?
example pics
Why do some 2 channel amps come with 4 sets of speaker terminals?
is this for bi amping?
example pics
2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction
Post edited by JimBRICK on
Comments
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You can put two set of speakers on the amp. Most of the time they are labeled A & B. It usually is just putting the speakers in parellel which effectively cuts the impedence in half. Set A in the living room, set B in the den, that kind of ****.
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i thought that, thanks. so then if you biamped and ran speakers a/b at the same time you would be styling?2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction -
i thought that, thanks. so then if you biamped and ran speakers a/b at the same time you would be styling?
Bi-amping and using speaker A and / or B are two different animals altogether. Bi-amping you are using two speakers to either horizontally bi-amp, one on each speaker, or vertical one to power the low freqs and one to power the high freqs.
Using your A/B features and bi-amping simutaneously sounds like an explosion or at least the smell of burning electronics to me.:eek: -
I don't think you'll get anything by trying to biamp using the A/B channels except broken gear, wouldn't advise it
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Your not really bi-amping unless you have two separate 2 ch amps (or separate channels in a multi channel amp)
As far as the purpose of extra pairs of terminals on a 2 ch amp, it really depends on the amp. My Parasound has two pairs of outputs, but no A/B switch, so it is purely for Biwiring (as opposed to bi-amping).
I have had a few integrated amps with an A/B switch and two pairs, so obviously they were for hooking two sets of speakers. With A and B hooked up and running at the same time, you are wired in parallel, so it drops the load to the amp and you have to be careful about frying it.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
But what about those amps/integrateds that have dual speaker posts designed for a biamp configuration?
Not the A/B set-ups traditionally found on the likes of Sony AVR's.
nm: Looks like Bill answered it with "biwiring vs biamping". Always thought bi-wiring went down on the speaker end. I suppose it happens on both the amp end (in my case, the Unico P) and the speaker end in some cases.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Your not really bi-amping unless you have two separate 2 ch amps (or separate channels in a multi channel amp)
As far as the purpose of extra pairs of terminals on a 2 ch amp, it really depends on the amp. My Parasound has two pairs of outputs, but no A/B switch, so it is purely for Biwiring (as opposed to bi-amping).
I have had a few integrated amps with an A/B switch and two pairs, so obviously they were for hooking two sets of speakers. With A and B hooked up and running at the same time, you are wired in series, so it drops the load to the amp and you have to be careful about frying it.
Bill you can't put separate 2 ch amps, one on each speaker for horizontal biamping, they would have to be bridged mono. Two mono block amps is bi-amping when you place one on the left speaker and one on the right.
Also, you said with the speakers A & B hooked up and running at the same time they would be in series and effectively drop the load the amps see, that is incorrect, they are in parellel. If you had two 8 ohm speakers and you put them in series the amp would see 16 ohms. With two 8 ohm in parellel the amps would see 4 ohm.zombie boy 2000 wrote: »But what about those amps/integrateds that have dual speaker posts designed for a biamp configuration?
Not the A/B set-ups traditionally found on the likes of Sony AVR's.
nm: Looks like Bill answered it with "biwiring vs biamping". Always thought bi-wiring went down on the speaker end. I suppose it happens on both the amp end (in my case, the Unico P) and the speaker end in some cases.
I don't see how you can get any benefit from bi-wiring. The whole concept doesn't make sense to me. If you tell me you've heard a difference with bi-wiring, I'll take your word for it. -
I can't really tell you I've heard that much of a difference, but I have the wares and set-up to do it... so why not?:pI never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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zombie boy 2000 wrote: »I can't really tell you I've heard that much of a difference, but I have the wares and set-up to do it... so why not?:p
Same thing with Dynamating my drive basket spokes on my 1.2 tls. Jess said I probably wouldn't hear a big difference. . . but after doing the work and listening for a week, my midrange is much warmer and cleaner sounding. I had the means and the product to why not. -
some amps give you the extra terminals to make bi-wiring easy.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
I never really considered bi-wiring "hard"- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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it can be if you have two cables with large thick spades.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
Jim, there's no such thing as a dumb question regarding amps. With that being said, yours did come really close
I wouldn't biwire or any other bi off just one amp. However, I do find that two speaker terminals can be beneficial for running a sets of speakers in different areas (inside and patio, etc.). Or, if you have two different favorites for 2-channel listening (set of towers, set of bookie), it makes it easier to have them both available on the same equipment.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
I figured as much, I just wanted to know for sure. its one of those things that you assume but you know what happens when you assume things right 2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction -
hearingimpared wrote: »Bill you can't put separate 2 ch amps, one on each speaker for horizontal biamping, they would have to be bridged mono. Two mono block amps is bi-amping when you place one on the left speaker and one on the right.
If you have 2 sets of speaker terminals on your speakers, you sure can. However, the description is of "vertical" bi-amping, not "horizontal" which is where one amp drives the tweeters in both speakers (and mids in a 3-way speaker) and the other amplifier drives the woofers for both speakers. Sorry, but to bi-amp with mono-blocks, you would need 4 mono-block amps, one each for woofer and tweeter, so 2 amp chassis per side. Then you have no "vertical" or "horizontal" since you are using individual amplifiers.
Historically, I have tended to go vertical more often on dual mono amps, and horizontal always on regular stereo amps. I try it both ways, and pick the one I like the best.
SpaceSystem:
VPI Scout/Benz Ace
Sutherland PH2000
Arcam CD72
Yamaha DVD-CX1 (primarily for CD..26 lbs, all BB D/A)
Audioprism Mantissa w/Reference PS
Parasound HCA750 (temporary)
Audiovector M1 Signatures
Kimber 4TC x 2 -
hearingimpared wrote: »Bill you can't put separate 2 ch amps, one on each speaker for horizontal biamping, they would have to be bridged mono. Two mono block amps is bi-amping when you place one on the left speaker and one on the right.
Also, you said with the speakers A & B hooked up and running at the same time they would be in series and effectively drop the load the amps see, that is incorrect, they are in parellel. If you had two 8 ohm speakers and you put them in series the amp would see 16 ohms. With two 8 ohm in parellel the amps would see 4 ohm.
Joe, I'm not sure what you are talking about in the first paragraph. Doesn't matter if you are talking horizontal or vertical, biamping generally refers to having separate amp channels for the lows and highs. Having two amps both bridging to mono (1 for each channel) generally isn't considered biamping since the amp sees the entire speaker/crossover network.
In the second paragraph, I obviously had my term wrong (corrected in O.P.), but the idea was correct. Reason:Brain **** regarding series vs parallel.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Spacedeckman wrote: »If you have 2 sets of speaker terminals on your speakers, you sure can. However, the description is of "vertical" bi-amping, not "horizontal" which is where one amp drives the tweeters in both speakers (and mids in a 3-way speaker) and the other amplifier drives the woofers for both speakers. Sorry, but to bi-amp with mono-blocks, you would need 4 mono-block amps, one each for woofer and tweeter, so 2 amp chassis per side. Then you have no "vertical" or "horizontal" since you are using individual amplifiers.
Historically, I have tended to go vertical more often on dual mono amps, and horizontal always on regular stereo amps. I try it both ways, and pick the one I like the best.
Space
How can you bi-amp horizontally with stereo amplifiers?
Vertically yes, you place one amp left and right speaker outputs to the left speaker and right speaker's upper frequency posts repectively. The other stereo amp would go on the lower posts of the speakers for the lows right and left channel respectively. -
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hearingimpared wrote: »How can you bi-amp horizontally with stereo amplifiers?
Vertically yes, you place one amp left and right speaker outputs to the left speaker and right speaker's upper frequency posts repectively. The other stereo amp would go on the lower posts of the speakers for the lows right and left channel respectively.
I'm not sure you've got the terminology correct. Horizontal biamping is what you described. (picture the amps sending out speaker wire horizontally to the left and right)
In a vertical bi-amp, you have to use two identical stereo amps. One for the right, one for the left. Use Y-cable splitter so that the R and L channel of each amp see the same signal. Then wire one channel to the upper frequency terminals, and the other to the lower frequency terminals. In this setup, you could have the amp located near each speaker and the speaker cables could go "vertical" to the terminals.
See this link for PSAudio's explanation:
http://www.psaudio.com/newsletters/11-04.aspFor rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
I'm not sure you've got the terminology correct. Horizontal biamping is what you described. (picture the amps sending out speaker wire horizontally to the left and right)
In a vertical bi-amp, you have to use two identical stereo amps. One for the right, one for the left. Use Y-cable splitter so that the R and L channel of each amp see the same signal. Then wire one channel to the upper frequency terminals, and the other to the lower frequency terminals. In this setup, you could have the amp located near each speaker and the speaker cables could go "vertical" to the terminals.
See this link for PSAudio's explanation:
http://www.psaudio.com/newsletters/11-04.asp
PSAudio's explaination is opposite of what I learned "vertical biamping" to be, but since it is there in black and white, I stand corrected.:o
However what would you call my setup? I have two Adcom mono blocks; one is connected to the left speaker's bass posts, the other to the right speaker's bass posts. Then I put a stereo Parasound amp, left channel to left speaker's high freq posts and the right channel to the right speaker's high freq posts.
I use Y connectors to split the signal from the preamp's left and right channel outs. -
hearingimpared wrote: »PSAudio's explaination is opposite of what I learned "vertical biamping" to be, but since it is there in black and white, I stand corrected.:o
However what would you call my setup? I have two Adcom mono blocks; one is connected to the left speaker's bass posts, the other to the right speaker's bass posts. Then I put a stereo Parasound amp, left channel to left speaker's high freq posts and the right channel to the right speaker's high freq posts.
I use Y connectors to split the signal from the preamp's left and right channel outs.
I'd say you are horizontally biamped, but you are using monos for the mid/bass instead of a stereo amp.
Sounds like a kick-**** way to do it!For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
I'd say you are horizontally biamped, but you are using monos for the mid/bass instead of a stereo amp.
Sounds like a kick-**** way to do it!
Tis true! My bass is extremely ballsy and tight. I play The Police, "Sprits in a Material World" and "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic" at least once a week to hear that low bass growwwwwl and the vibrations in my ballinis. Full orchestral low freq instruments growllll.
This is the same sound I heard in my youth when my mom would play her double bass. Sometimes she would draw her bow or pluck the really thick strings with her fingers in the first postion and you first felt a thudy thump in your chest and then you heard the notes. Great stuff. -
hearingimpared wrote: »PSAudio's explaination is opposite of what I learned "vertical biamping" to be, but since it is there in black and white, I stand corrected.:o
bah! Diagonal bi-amping is where its at, you can create your own SDA effects. -
bah! Diagonal bi-amping is where its at, you can create your own SDA effects.
LOL! Diagonal biamp'g can only be done in HT!:D
