Barry Bonds and 755
zombie boy 2000
Posts: 6,641
As Bonds gets closer and closer to eclipsing what is arguably the most important record in any sport, I'm curious as to everyone's take on the matter. Personally, I can't stand the man. But at the same time, its hard for me not to get caught up in the excitement of the moment -- however tarnished. Much like watching a car wreck.
Proponents argue that the playing field has been made level in that steroid usage has been just as prevalent among pitchers. Clemens' figure didn't necessarily stay even keel over the course of his career.
Other supporters eagerly point to Bond's outstanding hand/eye coordination for the true recipe of his success.
We all know where the detractors (which includes myself) stand on the issue and why they do so.
Proponents argue that the playing field has been made level in that steroid usage has been just as prevalent among pitchers. Clemens' figure didn't necessarily stay even keel over the course of his career.
Other supporters eagerly point to Bond's outstanding hand/eye coordination for the true recipe of his success.
We all know where the detractors (which includes myself) stand on the issue and why they do so.
I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
Post edited by zombie boy 2000 on
Comments
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The other thread not enough for you?
The more time goes by, the more we learn that it's impossible to know how many people have been juicing and cheating the game for the last 20 years. Just because Bonds is beating a record (which people just throw WAY too much hyperbole at), shoudl we really treat him differently than the hundreds of other "cheaters" out there? Games and championships have been won on the hands of equally guilty parties. I think most players would tell you the championships are far more important than individual records. So why don't we start stripping pennants and World Series rings from teams that had juicers on them? We can't just arbitrarily be all high and mighty about Bonds because he's setting a record (and he's a gigantic ****).If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
A thousand apologies my good man:p
Never saw the other thread.
That's the thing... baseball is inherently a game of numbers. And it can be argued that it is the only sport where personal statistical accomplishments supercede that of teams in the eyes of history.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
My take is this
Cheating or not, like him or not, its a game with a round ball & round bat and it takes a whole lot of talent to be as successful as he has been to have the career #'s that he has.
Its just a shame he had to, or should I say allegedly get caught up in taking roids considering he was a Hall of Fame player even before he suddenly gained 30 lbs of muscle using Flaxseed oil
Question is, will A-Rod, if healthy over the next 8 years or so, be hated as much as Bonds when is on the brink of breaking the record? -
While it is the "most important" record (ie the one people are most interested in; everybody loves the long ball) there are a couple that would be much more difficult to surpass in my mind.
Obviously noone's going to get Cy Young's 500+ wins nowadays, but there are a couple of records that are still attainable by today's players. If someone were to break Dimaggio's 56 game hitting streak, THAT would impress me the most. The 2nd most difficult record (in my mind anyway) would be besting 191 RBI's in a season by Hack Wilson.2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
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My vote would be for Orel Hershiser's 59 straight scoreless innings. Though the fact that it was set semi-recently in 1988 diminishes its mystique.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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I stated in another thread that I don't care for Barry as a person. As a player pre-steroids he was tremendous. We watched him in Pittsbugh as a skinny 20 year old with a remarkable combination of speed and power. He could run, hit, catch and throw. He looked like a great player right from the beginning. His average wasn't great and he struck out a lot the first two seasons, but then he really improved.
If he get the 755, which he will, I won't offer any disrespect. But, I don't respect him as a player like I could have without all the juice. As a person, I think he's an A hole.
Joe DiMaggio's 56 consecutive streak was probably the greatest single feat in baseball.
For a career performance, I think Ted Williams is far and away the greatest offensive player. He didn't have great speed which probably cost him many point on his batting average. But for 19 seasons he had a career 341 average with 521 home runs. In 1941 he hit 406, which is the last time anybody has hit over 400. Ted was 24 years old. The next three years he spent in the Marines as a pilot. He also served during the Korean war. Altogether, Ted lost essentially 5 full seasons as a player. He probably would have hit 150 - 200 home runs, putting him close to Babe Ruth.
Ted wote the book on hitting, in fact he wrote a book about hitting. He won 2 triple crowns, four batting titles, 3 HR titles and 2 MVP's.
Barry who?Carl -
Would there be any teams left ?bobman1235 wrote: »So why don't we start stripping pennants and World Series rings from teams that had juicers on them? -
Thats insane.He sure did have a couple of good years with the Dodgers.zombie boy 2000 wrote: »My vote would be for Orel Hershiser's 59 straight scoreless innings. Though the fact that it was set semi-recently in 1988 diminishes its mystique.Testing
Testing
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Yeah... If I'm not mistaken, he extended it into the playoffs a couple of innings (which didn't count). And then gave up a run in the very first inning of the next season to end the streak.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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Question is, will A-Rod, if healthy over the next 8 years or so, be hated as much as Bonds when is on the brink of breaking the record?
I already, and have for a long time, since 2000 to be exact, hated ARod more than Bonds. -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »Yeah... If I'm not mistaken, he extended it into the playoffs a couple of innings (which didn't count). And then gave up a run in the very first inning of the next season to end the streak.
I still have that Topps card somewhere of him juggling the baseballs in honor of that.2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
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He still hit them, which is a talent in itself. Do I like him? No. Did he 'roid? Yes. Look at Conseco, he 'roided and didn't come close to what Bonds has done.
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I already, and have for a long time, since 2000 to be exact, hated ARod more than Bonds.
Was that the year he left Seattle ? -
He still hit them, which is a talent in itself. Do I like him? No. Did he 'roid? Yes. Look at Conseco, he 'roided and didn't come close to what Bonds has done.
If he couldn't hit the ball, he wouldn't be in the majors unless he was a pitcher. You guys are making statements like it's a big feat that the can actually make contact with a ball pitched in the majors. Maybe you need to re-evaluate whether or not you think cheating is wrong, because that's what you're endorsing. -
FACT - Bonds is considered to have one of the best swings in baseball, and no amount of steroids can make that happen.
The real question is, where he would be without the steroids? I think that he still could have broken the record without the juice. He is a good enough hitter that it may have taken him a little longer, but with a smaller frame, his body wouldn't have taken the added stress that it has because he bulked up.
Mind you, I am not a Barry Bonds fan. I don't want to see him break the record like this. It will be broken again at some point I'm sure, and hopefully by someone who is clean and worked hard to get to where he is.I know just enough to be dangerous, but don't tell my wife, she thinks I'm a genius.
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Here's my stuff. -
FACT - Bonds is considered to have one of the best swings in baseball, and no amount of steroids can make that happen.
The real question is, where he would be without the steroids? I think that he still could have broken the record without the juice. He is a good enough hitter that it may have taken him a little longer, but with a smaller frame, his body wouldn't have taken the added stress that it has because he bulked up.
Mind you, I am not a Barry Bonds fan. I don't want to see him break the record like this. It will be broken again at some point I'm sure, and hopefully by someone who is clean and worked hard to get to where he is.
Oddly enough, it doesn't matter what you think would happen. We're dealing with the reality that he's already cheated, which makes the achievement null and void.
You're just rationalizing for a guy you don't like, which is odd. -
I wasn't meaning to make it seem like I was rationalizing for him, more disappointed in the fact that he could have been a great player without the steroids. The would happen was more the fact that he had great potential when he started out, he just tried to speed it up by juicing and ruined what could have been a great, and steroid free, career.
I guess I'm just disappointed is all. The record will be broken, I just wish it wasn't like this.I know just enough to be dangerous, but don't tell my wife, she thinks I'm a genius.
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Here's my stuff. -
The "sweetest swing" argument really doesn't hold a lot of water. If it did, Will Clark would have already eclipsed the record. But as it stands, he probably won't even make the Hall of Fame.
Again... lots of potential. But careers fade early. Steroids is not about strength so much as it is about prolonging one's stint in the Big Show.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
I'd like to see the MLB suspend Bonds with about 5 to go to investigate thouroughly the claims and if they can prove he cheated, suspend him for two seasons. None of this "we're doing something about steroids" all while one of the biggest abusers is stalking down one of the more important records in the league crap. If he can come back at 46 or whatever he'll be and hit the HR's to break the record, good for him. To me, the two seasons worth of HR's is probably about how many he got from roiding.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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I'd go along with that...
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Oddly enough, it doesn't matter what you think would happen. We're dealing with the reality that he's already cheated, which makes the achievement null and void.
You're just rationalizing for a guy you don't like, which is odd.
I just don't quite understand why everyone draws the distinction for Bonds, when so many in MLB have accomplished so much with just as obvious cheating. We care so much that Bonds passes some milestone when we all "know" he cheated, but what about all the years and dozens (if not HUNDREDS) of playesr who we "like" that we turn a blind eye too? Isn't that hypocritical?If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
It's simple, if you are found using steroids, you're out and banned permanently.
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bobman1235 wrote: »I just don't quite understand why everyone draws the distinction for Bonds, when so many in MLB have accomplished so much with just as obvious cheating. We care so much that Bonds passes some milestone when we all "know" he cheated, but what about all the years and dozens (if not HUNDREDS) of playesr who we "like" that we turn a blind eye too? Isn't that hypocritical?
I thought this thread was about Barry Bonds, not the rest of the MLB.
Do you want to talk about steroids and the MLB as a whole? I'll give you the same arguments.
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That wasn't so much aimed at you as muhc as the whole media hype about Bonds in general. You can't pick out Bonds just because it's convenient.If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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He still hit them, which is a talent in itself. Do I like him? No. Did he 'roid? Yes. Look at Conseco, he 'roided and didn't come close to what Bonds has done.
Maybe not for a whole career, but Canseco had a 40-40 year...which is absurd. 40 homers AND 40 stolen basesPioneer Elite VSX-53, Polk RT800i fronts, Polk CS400i center, FX500i surround, Velodyne sub -
bobman1235 wrote: »That wasn't so much aimed at you as muhc as the whole media hype about Bonds in general. You can't pick out Bonds just because it's convenient.
Well, it's about Bonds because he's about the break a record, whether we think it's legit or not. I suspect McGwire would be a big story if it was him chasing it.
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Not just any record...
THE RECORD. Seriously. Any sport.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
MLB new roids were rampant loooong before the did anything about it. MLB said nothing when McGuire and Sosa were going head to head because the added attention made MLB a ton of money. I think Bonds is being used as a convenient scape goat. Did he use, hell yes, but so do a huge number of MLB players. And have been for many years. And while I'm at it, re-instate "Charlie Hustle" dammit!!!!:cool:Everytime I think I'm out, THEY PULL ME BACK IN!!!!!!
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zombie boy 2000 wrote: »Not just any record...
THE RECORD. Seriously. Any sport.
Well, not exactly. In football they may be suspending players for a few games now but only because of the press, and in most cases the fans do not have the same attitude towards it's use. I haven't heard any fans pissing and moaning and singling out anyone in particular in football as being dispicable and unworthy. Anybody whining about how all of a sudden there are a million 300 lb linemen? About 10 or 15 yrs ago there were maybe 2. How many have protested the fact that LT and Michael Irvin are in the Hall of Fame. You know damn well those two weren't just using recreationally. They were snorting that stuff in the locker room big time, no doubt.2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones -
No Dragon... I think you misunderstood me:) I'm talking about the "All-Time HR" record being the most vaunted record in any sport.
I just can't thing of any other record that is as cherished and gushed over as this one.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
