SACD recordings - two channels only

ashuanipix

I am thinking of replacing my aging cd player with one that has SACD playback ability. I have consulted Sony's web site that explains this new format:
http://interprod5.imgusa.com/son-403/multichannel.asp

According to this site, all SACD recordings contain a two channel mix and possibly a multichannel SACD mix. The traditionnal "Red Book" tracks are also included to ensure backward compatibilty with the millions of non SACD players. This is how Sony states it on the previously mentioned site.

"Many leading audiophile labels are already conducting multichannel DSD recording sessions. Thanks to Direct Stream Transfer™ lossless coding, SACDs offer a multi-channel mix, a studio produced 2-channel SACD mix and a separate CD layer that can playback in all conventional CD players."

However, since I have seen reviews of SACD discs that only mention the SACD surround sound, and one other web site (hometheatermagazine) said that producers MAY choose to include a two channel mix, I was wondering if this two channel mix was always on the SACD discs. I contacted Sony who told me to call customer service who didn't know. Sony then told me to call the local Sony dealer, who didn't know either. Finally, Sony told me that "a standard Super Audio CD will provide space for 2-channel stereo data". I am still not completely convinced that two channel SACD mixes will be part of ALL SACD future recordings.

Does anyone know for sure if the two channel mix is a compulsory part of SACD recordings? I would appreciate knowing that.

Thank you

madmax

Great question and thanks for the link. I have been wondering as well but have not really looked very hard for the answer as you have. It will be sad if all they have is the multichannel information. The only reason I would want sacd is for the higher resolution 2 channel. (at least until they learn how to mix the multichannel information properly)
madmax

Aaron

Another thing to note is that many SACD's do not have a CD layer. That's another optional feature as well. The current rumor is that Sony will stop producing all CD's and release only SACD's (including a CD layer for backward compatibility). It sounds like a fantastic idea that I hope they can follow through on.

Aaron

jmasterj

ashuanipix

I have a SACD player and I own about (6) SACD disc. 3 of them are Multi-channel/Stereo, 3 are Stereo only. Each disc states "This
disc is designed for use in Super Audio CD players only". I do not
think the disc contain a "seperate CD layer that can playback in
conventional CD players". Maybe they will in the future but I doubt
it. All the Multi-Channel disc I have include two-channel mixes. Both mixes must be sent through the analog inputs of the pre/amp, processer, receiver. they will not transfer the digital signal like DVD's or conventional CD's do, which is why they wont
playback on conventional CD players. I hope this helps. PS if you
want high resolution sound with out multi-channel maybe you should look into a CD player capable of upsampling. For the same price of a good SACD player you will be able to get SACD sound from all your CDs. Plus it will transfer the digital signal. Good Luck

Aaron

PS if you
want high resolution sound with out multi-channel maybe you should look into a CD player capable of upsampling. For the same price of a good SACD player you will be able to get SACD sound from all your CDs.

Upsampling, the "magic bullet." From what I've read, upsampling certainly improves the sound, but even the best upsampling players ($5000+) still aren't as good as a good SACD player/recording. Regardless, the fact that you can improve the sound of your current collection of CD's is a good enough reason to buy one. Also, you can just buy an external upsampling DAC if you already have a good CD player.

Aaron

shack

When Sony first started the SACD format it was decided to target the "audiophile" segement of the market. It was marketed as a high resolution 2 channel format knowing that the audiophiles would be the most willing to upgrade to the new format. All of the early Sony titles were only 2 channel and the multi channel are fairly recent. Because of the origins of the SACD the 2 channel SACD mix will always be a part of the Sony discs.

I do not think the disc contain a "seperate CD layer that can playback in conventional CD players". Maybe they will in the future but I doubt it.

As Aaron said, Sony is considering releasing all of their new CDs as a "Hybrid" SACD meaning they will have a traditional CD layer, a SACD 2 channel layer and possibly a SACD multichannel layer. The new ABKCO releases of 22 Rolling Stones titles are hybrid with a conventional CD layer and a SACD 2 channel layer. These are mixed in with the regular CDs in the stores. In fact there is no mention on the cover of these discs that they are SACD. Just a label that says they are remastered. (BTW if you want to get the hybrid SACD version make sure it's a digipack - not a jewel case -with a black and red and white sticker that says "Includes Inaugural Edition Certificate." Otherwise, you'll jut be getting the standard CD).

Here is a good link if if you want to know more about SACD. SACD FAQ

jmasterj

Thanks shack,
that was an excellent link.

liv4fam

if you are seriously looking into a SACD player LOOK into them. I bought the Sony DVPNS900V when it first came out and IMO that player is total crap. I feel like I got burned so bad on that thing because it retailed for 999.99 when it first came out and now it is down to 600.00 and the internal DAC's sound like it should be 129.99. That's just my opinion. Anybody want it?

HBombToo

10 bucks?

liv4fam

Hbomb, man you can have my whole system for 10 bucks I'll take it!!!!!!!!!!

HBombToo

I'll take care of shipping my man.

danger boy

Originally posted by liv4fam
if you are seriously looking into a SACD player LOOK into them. I bought the Sony DVPNS900V when it first came out and IMO that player is total crap. I feel like I got burned so bad on that thing because it retailed for 999.99 when it first came out and now it is down to 600.00 and the internal DAC's sound like it should be 129.99. That's just my opinion. Anybody want it?

liv4fam,
please give us more details why this Sony DVPNS900v turned out to be so bad for you. I've tossed around the idea of adding a SACD player to my HT system. I currently have a DVD audio/DVD player and I find that not all discs are produced in the same high quality. Some DVD-A discs in DTS are not produced the same way. Some of them sound great while others sound like nothing more than a multichannel 16bit cd.. very disappointing. So i want to compare the two formats. DVD-A has very few releases that i even want to buy.. while it seems like SACD has the better ones.

jmasterj

Yea, I'm interested in hearing about that too. I have a Sony DVP-NC650v SACD player I haven't had any problem with it. The few
Mulit-channel SACD's I have sound fine. I don't even use it for
movies. Only drawback is waiting for the software to be released.
What's wrong with that one ?

jdavy

Not all sony players are created equal. I had the choice of getting the DVP-NS900 and the DVP-S9000ES and got the 9000es. I thought that the 900 looked to be less of a player than the 9000es. The 2 channel SACD only playback did not concern me. Sony made the MDP600 laserdisc player and it is concidered on of the best ever made. They came out with a MDP700 and MDP800 before the format died but the 600 was not topped.

FYI Sony will be selling the MDP-NS999ES soon. My brother has one on order. It will be interesting to see if the build quallity is like the 9000 at a weight of 28 pounds or more like a dressed up 900? I will post about it when he gets it and I take it for a spin.

mantis

Liv4fam doesn't like the cd DAC's in that player, hard to use it as a regular cd player.I will agree with him that it does sound like ****.But for DVD and SACD, it's killer.The Video is slightly soft but real clean and detailed.The Audio Quality for movies is also top notch.Liv4fam got it when it came out and paid more then he should have due to the price drop.Thats why he's bad at it.......and the cd playback.....thats it.

mantis

SACD and DVD AUDIO is coming around real slow.I have put that on pause for now.I own the Pioneer Elite DV-47a, which can play both.I only own 4 disk's........sad but true.

TroyD

I honestly feel that both SACD and DVD-A have a bunch of hurdles to clear before they gain any widespread popularity. One, is that folks are leary over which format will overtake the other. Another problem is folks not wanting to re-buy tons of stuff they already have. Three, the equipment and backwards compatibility issue. Four, that SACD and DVD-A don't lend themselves to folks burning personal compilation cd's or converting them to mp3's.

BDT

HBombToo

Mantis, Please give us some detail regarding your 47a. I have been searching for a new dvd player and it seams that you have the Caddy of the bunch.

Thanks for your time and I also sent you an email.

Regards
HBomb