How Un-Polked are you?

LuSh

I'm sorry Early,

Perhaps I'm not wearing my glasses...but I've more or less told you I've compared LSi's with alot of speakers within its price class and you've come back with speakers that beat the RTi. Quite frankly I don't like the RTi, now back to the LSi's. I'm extremely interested in the speakers (should be many) that make the LSi's 9 or 15's look like baseline value. As I would love to audition said speakers and perhaps buy them. It should be noted that I've auditioned Monitor Audio Silver and Golds, Aerial Acoustics 5B, Totem Mani and Sttaf, Energy Veritas 2.2, Paradigm Studio 40, PSB Stratus, PMC TB2 and have yet to find a speaker that beats the LSi top to bottom at the same price point. So please I'd love to hear about these speakers at the same price point (no used vs new) and not comparing the RTi's that would make the LSi's look baseline if not top in their class. I'm all ears...and eyes.

steveinaz

I think the Lsi series could compete favorably with anything twice their respective price. Rti, just another blah, blah, blah speaker...nothing like the classic Polk monitor or RTA series. I liked the "blue cone" series much better than the Rti.

jakelm

As a vintage Polk luvr, I cant speak for the current line-up.

The LSi series is Polk's top of the line. And in regaurds to HiFi, everyone here knows what I'm talking about, so there is no need to question the question. But I would like to ask this simple "yes" or "no" question, for those who would like to answer. From the past I have seen Polk transision from Hi-Fi stores to mass market retail stores.

Is current Polk Hi-Fidelity?

johnADA

Had Polk R-30's and a CS-1 for the fronts.
Had RT-25i's for the rear.

I just couldnt take the poly drivers anymore because they dont sound natural and I was looking for a replication of sounds instead of re-creating by making changes to the sound.

I could find no pre-made that offered the sound I was looking for, for a price within reason. Markup is incredible, $40 worth of drivers etc marked up to $500+ per.
I built my own and got just what I wanted for less than I paid for each speaker I replaced.

Paramount Polk

ohskigod wrote: »

for the record, I dont put people that buy LSi's, or even RTi's as average. That is still on the higher end for investment in a home theater system than most spend. Maybe its average if you factor only the nutty enthusiasts (namely us ), but certainly not the average for all buyers, no friggin way man.

your telling me the average home theater buyer spends:

RTi10's, I dont know, like a grand
CSi5 400ish?
surrounds 3-400 ish?

close to 2 g's on speakers alone? this does not compute as average to me.

the #'s for LSi's are even higher above my perception of the "average buyer"

again, it all comes down to perception

Amen- I think the "Average" is 400 dollars for the sony 5.1 with the 1000 watt sub

ohskigod

Paramount Polk wrote: »

Amen- I think the "Average" is 400 dollars for the sony 5.1 with the 1000 watt sub

or certainly closer to the ballpark, maybe all Polk Monitor bookshelves with there smallest sub is closer to the "average" home theater buyer, but even that might be higher. All I know is people look at my theater like I'm a freak for going through so much trouble putting it together, but they understand when they listen to it

Yashu

Tried Polk RTi 4s based on reviews, I was looking for bookshelves for a smaller 2 channel system. They were a bit too bright and sizzly for me, but the build quality seemed great.

I ended up going with PSB Alpha Bs... I also tried some monitor audios that were pretty terrible.

I was intrigued with LSi series, specifically the 7 and 9s... but they were too large for what I was trying to do, but I would consider them in the future if the tweeters aren't ear bleeding, they sure look nice.

I also would consider used or vintage polks, but I need magnetic shielding.

Polks seem like a good mass market value. I would not put them in the top value because of what you are able to buy from some of the smaller makers, but when you consider their competition at Frys, Tweeter, CC, polks probably get you the most for your dollar.

MSALLA

I had the current Monitor series and could not stand them. Tried the Rti-6's and took them back 1 week later. listened to Lsi's and other speakers in the same price range and I didn't find anything that I would have spent more on until I was up around $5000.00. I will say if a person gose to a store to hear Lsi's on a receiver they don't sound like they are worth the $900.00 to $1600.00 on the price tag.

rskarvan

I think most audiophile-type personalities will "Outgrow" Polk as they grow into the hobby. The reason is that Polk isn't doing anymore that pushes the envelope to a high-end audiophile sound. The LSi's are very good. But, they are small-ish speakers that are not quite at the same level as the "very-high-end" audiophile market.

This is why Chevy has the Corvette. Its a common name... but, the Corvette can hold its own with most any other sports car regardless of price. Polk, at minimum, needs a Corvette. But, it would be better yet if they changed their image to be more like BMW. Make sense?

ohskigod

MSALLA wrote: »

I will say if a person gose to a store to hear Lsi's on a receiver they don't sound like they are worth the $900.00 to $1600.00 on the price tag.

and thus brings us to the achilles heal of the LSi's, unless they are on damn good quality amplification, they sound like ****. I heard a pair of LSi15's and an electronics expo, and oh GOD they sounded like shite!!!!

nothing like how they sound in my house. look at Yashu's post, LSi's? earbleeding? something was DEFINITLY wrong with that demo, and polk might have lost a sale because of it. wonder how many times that hapenned.

the more power I jam down the throats of my Lsi's, the better they sound.
500 watts into the 4 ohm LSi15's sound DAMN good

Yashu

Well go into any frys or tweeter or any other midfi place that has the LSi sets...

Look around, you see, at best, Denon and Onkyo receivers for amplification. How can you expect miracles when you are demoed Billy Idol through a yamaha 5.1 channel receiver?

I completely agree that the LSis probably sound great with great gear... the RTi series, well after trying them at home I am more convinced that, yes, they are more for HT, but I do agree that the LSis probably sound great and scale well. I am just saying that it kindof sucks that all the stores I have seen selling them have nothing better than midfi receivers and DVD players.

If I were to give polk another shot it would be with the LSi9s.

Bill Ayotte

I don't own any Polk's yet.....Three pairs of Tannoys, a set of B&W 600i's, and hopefully a set of Carver ALS silvers by this weeks end....Oh yeah, a little set of missions too...I hope to pick up a set of LSi7s for the bedroom....A huge set of SDAs are in the future as well....

hearingimpared

In all honesty, back in 1984 I wouldn't have given Polk a second thought. I happened upon a pair of SDA/SRS and was totally taken. I have never heard any other Polk speakers other that SDAs for two channel. I own Polks for HT and SDAs for two channel but I don't know if Polk is where it's at for 2 channel other than SDA.

I won't say never to taking a listen to the speakers that Polk has made for two channel but I so love the SDAs that I really don't need to go there. I've heard many other speakers, some pretty good ones too, and I still am Polked SDA for two channel.

Dennis Gardner

Average/mainstream is a $900 flatscreen TV with a $200 Walmart/Sam's/Costco/BB/CC HTIB.

The average consumer sees Polk and even Bose as beyond their reach and boutique gear is only for the nuts with more $$$ than brains. Most people simply don't care or understand what quality is in any part of their lives. Why do you think country music is the largest selling genre?:rolleyes: It certainly isn't for its level of sophistication.

JimBRICK

Lush if your thinking totem, the hawks and forest would be the ones to look at

Bill Ayotte

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Average/mainstream is a $900 flatscreen TV with a $200 Walmart/Sam's/Costco/BB/CC HTIB.

The average consumer sees Polk and even Bose as beyond their reach and boutique gear is only for the nuts with more $$$ than brains. Most people simply don't care or understand what quality is in any part of their lives. Why do you think country music is the largest selling genre?:rolleyes: It certainly isn't for its level of sophistication.

I just got my parents out of this setup.....and into a Pioneer Elite 60" with a NAD receiver and a LSi9/LSi7 LsiC setup....They are building a condo, and the builder offered up a "deal" on a sound system from BB...I told them it was crap and to just buy all of the audio equipment ONCE, for a change...The whole house is going Polk crazy! They liked the LSi7s so much they are putting a pair in the bedroom on a Nad 720BEE! The guest bedroom is getting a set of Lsi7s with an undetermined source....They are tying to get a deal on two 720BEEs.....I am elated because for years I have set up countless crap systems for them....This will be the last time...The builder is pre-wiring the Living room for the HT with Cardas Crosslink as well....I asked if it was possible and they can afford it....The builder wanted Monster....eck. I am really looking forward to this....To finish it off, the Harmony 890...Because otherwise my dad would do unimaginable things while trying to watch a movie. I can't wait, finally it will all be over.:eek:

seaan

LuSh wrote: »

I'm sorry Early,
I'm extremely interested in the speakers (should be many) that make the LSi's 9 or 15's look like baseline value. As I would love to audition said speakers and perhaps buy them. ... and have yet to find a speaker that beats the LSi top to bottom at the same price point. So please I'd love to hear about these speakers at the same price point ...

And that is the fun of audio, at least one of those speakers from your list works better for me. So the real key is the "top to bottom" part.

I'll discuss the brands I preferred, although I have several caveats. The first is that I'm basing this on the LSi7, which to my ears has a serious weakness in mid-bass (I think the 9's probably are better, but have been unable to seriously audition them). The second is that I'm a "sit the in the front" of the symphony type listener. I love detail and analytical sound, and will take that over "warmness" or "balance". Finally, I'm very sensitive to bass transients (which is why I never could get into Polk in the 80's or 90's).

First my thoughts on the Lsi7's. The tweeter is definitely the star of the show. I hauled the 7's into 6 or 7 different dealer listening rooms, and no matter the position always heard (at least) a decent sound stage. Treble details are polite, and are just good enough to satisfy me. My real issue is with the mid-bass - in many positions it is slightly elevated (especially wall mounted); more serious is the congestion and the slight muddiness (although not as bad as the classic 80's Polk). This mid-bass weakness is what takes it out of the "reference" category for me. One of these days I'd like to spend serious time with the LSi9 and see how much better it is (only local dealer is Fry's - not the best place for auditioning, let alone bringing in your own equipment).

Here are four speakers that I preferred over the LSi7 (I was shopping for LRC home theater below $1000/apiece):

NHT M5/M6 ($450/$600): These were the only speakers of this list that possibly surpassed the soundstage of the LSi7. I really liked this speaker, the only "weakness" I noted was lack of bass (they are designed to be used with subwoofers). Some people consider these speakers bright, but (remember my front row preferences) I did not find them fatiguing. The local dealer went out of business before I could compare these with the speakers I ended up buying, so I never did a direct comparison with the...

Klipsch RB-75 ($600): While doing comparison tests, these were the speakers I kept coming back to. They are very dynamic (for a small speaker), and have great micro-dynamics (live recordings in particular sounded somehow more airy). They are incredibly detailed, and yet were pretty flexible in room positions. They do have weakness, in particular the imaging was not in the same class as the LSi7. They are definitely on the bright end of the spectrum (indeed the next model of Klipsch were somewhat more recessed), and by intellectual knowledge they are probably somewhat peaky (the cabinet was braced as well as the others in the list). I was concerned they might be overly bright, and did extensive auditioning to be sure I was OK with them - 6 months later I'm still enamored. The slight weakness in imaging was not that serious for HT applicators, but I prefer these in two-channel mode too. I also bought RB-35's for the rear ($300), and prefer those over the LSi7 as well.

Paradigm 20v3 ($425?): Which version of the Paradigm 40 did you listen to? I was not thrilled with the v2, which had a mid-to-low bass bump (although even with this bump, the bass transients of the 20v2 were good, noticeably better then the LSi7). The v3 model was better in every way, particularly in the bass. The bass did not go as deep or loud as the Klipsch, but it was both dynamic and very well controlled. Treble was more detailed than the LSi7, but not as much as the Klipsch. They imaged well, but it was harder to setup and I think the LSi7 probably has the advantage here. It was a hard choice -- I'd probably go for these in a 2-channel (with sub of course), but the excitement of Klipsch was better for HT.

B&W 705 ($1000?): I've often thought the B&W were a bit too polite, and maybe a touch slow. The cheaper lines just didn't catch my fancy, but these 705 (and the previous CDM/NT line) are at the sweet point. They do everything well (except deep and loud bass). They are more detailed than the LSi7, the bass is well controlled but not as dynamic as the Klipsch.

So there you have it. Although I like sound stage and imaging, there are other aspects of the sound that are more important to me (I actually made the same trade-off the first time I spent serious money on speakers back in the early 80's). Given my problems with the LSi7 bass, it had eliminated itself from my HT consideration; but it still served as a good reference point as I hauled it around to the different dealers. I'm happy with it in my bedroom, but it rarely gets used for critical listening.

heiney9

Nice write up seaan and welcome to Club Polk. I can see why the LSi's didn't work for you. If you like the Klipsch sound the whole LSi series is at the opposite spectrum. I personally find the Klipsch to brittle, bright, very forward, fatiguing and overall unlistenable. I have LSi 9's and they just plain sound so much better to my ears and I even like a sound that is somewhat "sparkly and bright" on the top end. The LSi's have all the detail without the sizzle and harshness most tweeters exhibit.

Klipsch in my experience and opinion is a love it or hate it type sound. Enjoy that's what it's all about

H9

Early B.

The speakers that changed my paradigm about what good speakers ought to sound like were the Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitors. Prior to those speakers, I thought what I was hearing from the numerous speakers I owned beforehand, including the Lsi7's (and eventually the 9's), was realism in the instruments. But it wasn't until I got my ears on the Taylos did I hear the difference between good speakers and great speakers. IMO, great speakers have high quality drivers and crossover components that most speakers, even those costing several thousands of dollars, simply don't have. I paid less than a grand for my used Taylos, and if given the choice between the Taylo bookshelf speakers and the similarly priced (used) Lsi15 floorstanders, the 15's wouldn't be invited to the party.

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

The speakers that changed my paradigm about what good speakers ought to sound like were the Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitors. Prior to those speakers, I thought what I was hearing from the numerous speakers I owned beforehand, including the Lsi7's (and eventually the 9's), was realism in the instruments. But it wasn't until I got my ears on the Taylos did I hear the difference between good speakers and great speakers. IMO, great speakers have high quality drivers and crossover components that most speakers, even those costing several thousands of dollars, simply don't have. I paid less than a grand for my used Taylos, and if given the choice between the Taylo bookshelf speakers and the similarly priced (used) Lsi15 floorstanders, the 15's wouldn't be invited to the party.

So Early are you saying that the LSi series have cheap driver and cheap x-over components. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like that's what you said and that simply isn't true. Sure you prefer the sound of the Taylo's great, but let's not start throwing info out there that is more false than true. The LSi's use excellent quality drivers and the x-over components and design while not super esoteric are top notch. Did you ever pull the x-over's in your 9's and look at them or are you just guessing?

H9

Yashu

There are always cut corners in mass market products. The LSis may be good, but they are very mass market (you can buy them in frys right next to the bose speakers for crying out loud) and suffer from the same shortcomings of any mass market product.

I am not calling them bad speakers, not by a longshot, I am just saying that mass manufacturing ultimately leads to some amount of acceptable cost reduction in design, materials, ect.

I also think that some speakers are more sensitive to your other gear than others.

LSis hog so much power that many amps are going to be forced to work their hardest to deliver power, and we all know that many SS amps sound like crap when they are pushed towards their max. Many SS amps are biased towards class A when they are being used at really low power, so very sensitive speakers are going to sound better on these amps. You need a good amp with lots of CLEAN power to get the LSis to sound their best. I think this is one reason many cheaper speakers can sound better than LSi on the same gear.

ohskigod

Yashu wrote: »

There are always cut corners in mass market products. The LSis may be good, but they are very mass market (you can buy them in frys right next to the bose speakers for crying out loud) and suffer from the same shortcomings of any mass market product.

I am not calling them bad speakers, not by a longshot, I am just saying that mass manufacturing ultimately leads to some amount of acceptable cost reduction in design, materials, ect.

I also think that some speakers are more sensitive to your other gear than others.

LSis hog so much power that many amps are going to be forced to work their hardest to deliver power, and we all know that many SS amps sound like crap when they are pushed towards their max. Many SS amps are biased towards class A when they are being used at really low power, so very sensitive speakers are going to sound better on these amps. You need a good amp with lots of CLEAN power to get the LSis to sound their best. I think this is one reason many cheaper speakers can sound better than LSi on the same gear.

I wouldnt call the LSi's mass production, being at Fry's notwithstanding, I dont think they sell a huge number for LSi's to fall under the mass amrket category.

I have owned the Lsi's for some time, and find no shortcomings in the materials, drivers, or crossovers (yes, I looked). If these is one aspect of construction I dont like, Is the LSi15 grill cover (one channel, the cover is seperating from the plastic, note that I bought my 15's used)

Polk having speakers dislayed next to Bose is nothing more than there method of marketing. Polk sells alot of speakers, so we cant question there methods too much.

If one likes an speaker better than the LSi, thats great. Good on ya, but to say LSi's parts are inferior solely because you like a speaker better seems a little Odd, maybe its me.

I would love to here the Taylos, since 2 people already like them ALOT, but they would have to be quite a bit better to get me to liquidate my LSi's and buy 5 speakers to replace my theater speakers.

The taylos would have to sound awesome, mow my frikkin lawn, and cook me breakfast for them to replace the AR9's in my 2 channel.

Early B.

heiney9 wrote: »

So Early are you saying that the LSi series have cheap driver and cheap x-over components. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like that's what you said and that simply isn't true. Sure you prefer the sound of the Taylo's great, but let's not start throwing info out there that is more false than true. The LSi's use excellent quality drivers and the x-over components and design while not super esoteric are top notch. Did you ever pull the x-over's in your 9's and look at them or are you just guessing?

H9

I didn't say, nor did I imply that the lsi series has cheap drivers and crossover components. However, the parts aren't in the same league as Tyler speakers. Each driver and tweeter in the Tylers approaches $200 if purchased alone. And the crossover parts are equally exceptional. How much are the drivers worth in the Lsi's? I dunno, but probably 1/10th of the value of the Tyler drivers.

VR3

The LSi tweeter cost around 55 new.

The Taylo tweeter is 200. The midbass is 170...

the crossover is point to point wiring, no cheesey circuit board... all top quality capacitors and conductors...

The enclosure is 1" MDF and finish in any choice of real wood veneer....

To compare what Tyler and other internet direct manufactures can... just isnt fair to Polk.

Early B.

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

The LSi tweeter cost around 55 new.

I think you meant $25, not $55.

VR3

No, if you were to buy it from PE - its 55 - might be 25 for polk?

Early B.

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

No, if you were to buy it from PE - its 55 - might be 25 for polk?

OK, they've gone up in price over the past couple of years.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-555

For Polk the cost is probably closer to $10 - $15.

heiney9

Yashu wrote: »

1) There are always cut corners in mass market products. The LSis may be good, but they are very mass market (you can buy them in frys right next to the bose speakers for crying out loud) and suffer from the same shortcomings of any mass market product.

2) I am not calling them bad speakers, not by a longshot, I am just saying that mass manufacturing ultimately leads to some amount of acceptable cost reduction in design, materials, ect.

3) I also think that some speakers are more sensitive to your other gear than others.

4) LSis hog so much power that many amps are going to be forced to work their hardest to deliver power, and we all know that many SS amps sound like crap when they are pushed towards their max. Many SS amps are biased towards class A when they are being used at really low power, so very sensitive speakers are going to sound better on these amps. You need a good amp with lots of CLEAN power to get the LSis to sound their best. I think this is one reason many cheaper speakers can sound better than LSi on the same gear.

1) Nope I don't believe because the LSi's are manufactured by the same company that produces mass market products that they suffer at all. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If the LSi speaker series was produced under a different boutique brand "name" all this bullsh*t about mass market and the bias and perception that goes along with that word wouldn't even be an issue. Many of the detractors in this thread would be singing their praises. Some of you are stuck on the fact that Polk is mass market therefore they couldn't possibly design a speaker that sounds as good or god forbid better than small boutique brands :rolleyes: .

2) ridiculous statement. Yes, for some companies mass market equals lesser quality. With Polk and the LSi's in particular economies of scale of the whole corporation allows for better parts to be used and a lesser cost passed on to the consumer.

3) That's a given for anything in audio; synergy is the key so it's not just an issue with the LSi's

4) That is simply not true. High quality amplification doesn't cost a lot and while they do put extra stress on AVR's especially the cheaper ones, I run my 9's with a 20 year old Adcom @100 watts/ch and even at very loud volumes the amp only gets a bit warm. If you know anything about electronics and amp design (especially Class A as you mention) you should know that the closer to full the tranny's are run the better the sound and that's how Class A is designed to run and has nothing to do with shortcomings of the LSi's. Actually your 4th point (I labeled them) is pure hogwash!

H9

VR3

I like the LSi line.
the LSi9 was my fav at the sc polkfest.
But Id be lieing to you and myself if I were to tell you the LSi line up anywhere in the same league as a series such of the Taylo line up. Which the MTM of the Taylo cost as much as the LSi25.

What I dont understand is why members of this board can sing so highly of internet direct when it comes to subs. But god forbid the truth be the same for speakers.

Polk makes great speakers for the price. But there is similar competition.

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

I didn't say, nor did I imply that the lsi series has cheap drivers and crossover components. However, the parts aren't in the same league as Tyler speakers. Each driver and tweeter in the Tylers approaches $200 if purchased alone. And the crossover parts are equally exceptional. How much are the drivers worth in the Lsi's? I dunno, but probably 1/10th of the value of the Tyler drivers.

So because Polk has the R&D and the money to spend producing amd testing their own drivers they are cheap? If Tyler's sold on the scale that Polks sell I'd bet their drivers and other parts would be less expensive as well. It's called economies of scale. And since when did the cost of something automatically mean it was better. Again I'm not saying that the Tylers or other smaller companies make a bad product, but I don't feel just because the parts have a retail price of $xxxx and they are a small company that they are automatically better.

That is a generalization I'm not willing to make.

H9