How Un-Polked are you?

mhardy6647

The "real" hi-fi in the living room alternates a pair of Quad ESL-57's with two DIY pairs: mass loaded, folded TQWT (tapered quarter-wave tubes) enclosures loaded with Radio Shack 40-1354's and bass reflex cabinets loaded with Fostex FE-207E's.





Basement hi-fi's are set up with a pair of Allison Ones and a pair of AR-3's respectively. Other things rotate into those from time to time. My Cornwalls are semi-retired since I got the ESL-57's.

The family room hi-fi/"home theater" will always have my Polk 7A's on it, though.

VR3

Guys, no one is trashing Polk speakers.

Blind bias is never a good thing. I use to own Polk speakers and when I upgrade my mentality was "Which Polk speaker can I move to improve?"

I dont think anyone is denying Polk makes good speakers. The LSi line, 5 years ago set a standard for speakers in its class. Since then however, alot of companies are using that same tweeter Polk uses and have capitalizes on what Polk has done. So unfortunately in a fast moving society, the LSi line is no longer a top dog among its price point. It has vast amounts of competition.
But no one here has said they are junk or bad. They just arnt the end all be all in their price range and to say they are would be foolish and an apparent example of brand bias.

Its like guys that ONLY listen to SDA speakers. Granted, the SDA line up is FANTASTIC and sounds great with most recordings. But to say it is the end all be all would be crazy - its a great sound and sounds different than alot of speakers... and alot of speakers out there capitalize on some of the traits it cant do and are considered better speakers by many. I dont think anyone will argue though that the SDA, on the used market are the best value in Home audio - ever.

LuSh

Early,


Again, I'd love to hear about these brands that best the Polk Audio. I really would, you mentioned they exist within the price point but didn't mention any names.

Early B.

cfrizz wrote: »

I totally agree H9!

I am beyond tired of those of you who have moved on, who use to sing the praises of Polk now coming on & saying they are just so so especially since they are just mass market speakers (Like that's a bad thing).:rolleyes:

If you can't still see what great speakers Polks still are just because you now have some "boutique brands" then why are you still here?

Take your "boutique brands" and move on to the apropriate boutique forum where you & the rest of the audio snobs can act superior together.

I'm beginning to see why in the first formations of CP you could only be a member if you owned Polk speakers! Who needs a bunch of audio snobs coming on and trashing said forums speakers!

I've noticed you throw around the term, "audio snob" often. What is that? It certainly can't be anyone that hangs around the Polk Forum. I can't imagine any self-respecting audio snob with his $50,000 system to post in here. A snob is someone who thinks their stuff is superior to others, and your post borders on being snobbish about Polk speakers.

Many of the folks who are un-Polked such as George Grand appear to have lots of audio experience and have been very helpful to other Polkies, including yourself. Whether or not I own Polk speakers is not the reason I hang out here, and it probably isn't your reason, either.

madmax

Early B. wrote: »

I can't imagine any self-respecting audio snob with his $50,000 system to post in here.

That has got to be the quote of the month!
madmax

Early B.

LuSh wrote: »

Early,


Again, I'd love to hear about these brands that best the Polk Audio. I really would, you mentioned they exist within the price point but didn't mention any names.

Of the ones I've owned, Ascend Acoustics is a great example. I also had BIC speakers that were better than the Polk RTi series, IMO. A few years ago I wrote a mini review on this forum where I said a $500 pair of Norh speakers sounded better than the Lsi7's. The rest of my speakers I've purchased used. Now if I take into consideration used prices, this list would expand significantly.

heiney9

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Guys, no one is trashing Polk speakers.

Blind bias is never a good thing. I use to own Polk speakers and when I upgrade my mentality was "Which Polk speaker can I move to improve?"

I dont think anyone is denying Polk makes good speakers. The LSi line, 5 years ago set a standard for speakers in its class. Since then however, alot of companies are using that same tweeter Polk uses and have capitalizes on what Polk has done. So unfortunately in a fast moving society, the LSi line is no longer a top dog among its price point. It has vast amounts of competition.
But no one here has said they are junk or bad. They just arnt the end all be all in their price range and to say they are would be foolish and an apparent example of brand bias.

Its like guys that ONLY listen to SDA speakers. Granted, the SDA line up is FANTASTIC and sounds great with most recordings. But to say it is the end all be all would be crazy - its a great sound and sounds different than alot of speakers... and alot of speakers out there capitalize on some of the traits it cant do and are considered better speakers by many. I dont think anyone will argue though that the SDA, on the used market are the best value in Home audio - ever.

I'll jump in here again and while I'm quoting Trey's post it's not really directed specifically at him. I don't think anyone in this thread so far is trashing Polk speakers. I just think the general sense is one of back peddeling and diminishing the value Polk offers (well beyond it's price point). We all have different idea's of what sounds good and some people just plain don't stick with one thing for very long.

There are a lot of great alternatives to Polk, I never said there wasn't. It's just so far in this thread the general sense I'm getting is that Polk is merely average and mass produced speakers couldn't possibly compete against high brow boutique brands. Last I checked economies of scale, like Polk has achieved with the assumed mass production allows them to do a lot of things smaller compaines can only dream of.

Their value, testing, quality, customer service and innovation is really 2nd to none and I suspect for some if they put the exact same speaker under a different boutique label and gave the impression of hand crafting limited numbers of speakers some of you would be talking about those speakers like some of the others mentioned all because of the perception. There are many super huge conglomerate breweries that jumped on the micro-brew band wagon to give the customer the impression of hand crafted small batch brews when in fact they were very similar to the mass marketed beer they already made under a very commercial name.

I'm also not saying Polk is the best speaker out there but I do feel I would have to spend a lot more to get to what I feel is the next level and that's why I still have and appreciate my Polk's. I have the same impression of Adcom and that's why I always discuss them. There's better stuff out there but why would I want to spend 2.5-3 times as much to make a lateral move? Different........sure...........better, hmmmmm.

H9

cfrizz

The difference EB is that George doesn't come on here now putting Polks down or saying that they are just run of the mill.

I think he believes in the old saying, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything."

I have no doubt that there are better speakers, equipment & whatever. But I am in a Polk forum, and I want to help Polk owners get the best out of their Polk speakers.

If I ever did decide to get other speakers other than Polk I would either leave the forum or simply continue to help new Polkies get the best out of their Polk speakers.

I don't believe in always going around constantly looking for bigger & better. If I find a particular brand/product that is top notch in MY estimation, than I will stay with that brand/product.

To me an audio snob are all those who come in here & put down or hold it against Polk because they are mass market produced. What is wrong with the fact that they are & sold in fairly large stores? why is there always a negative connotation to mass market produced, sold in Tweeters & the like a bad thing?

When people stop making these negative connotations I will stop saying they are snobs.

tonyb

You guys kill me.........Polk makes some damn good speakers,period.Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot...period.That being said,Polk designs and constructs speakers to match a certain price point that their marketing dept says will give them the best chance to make money....yes,make money,they are a company that likes to keep the doors open ya know.Some of us have moved on to "Boutique" brands because our price point is higher or we just like a different sound.I for one,appreciate Polk speakers and the company as a whole and to put them down after moving on is a terrible thing in my mind.
Cathy,me thinks you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.You know many of us have moved on,and stay here because we realize the great value Polks are,and are willing to help others since some of us have owned tons of Polks over the years.While I will agree that some need to get down off the high horse sometimes,that by no means undermines our commitment to further newbs interest in Polk Audio.Ok,off the soapbox....Polks are great,speakers to meet all your needs,CS beyond any other,great people,nuff said.

Early B.

cfrizz wrote: »

The difference EB is that George doesn't come on here now putting Polks down or saying that they are just run of the mill.

I think he believes in the old saying, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything."

I have no doubt that there are better speakers, equipment & whatever. But I am in a Polk forum, and I want to help Polk owners get the best out of their Polk speakers.

If I ever did decide to get other speakers other than Polk I would either leave the forum or simply continue to help new Polkies get the best out of their Polk speakers.

I don't believe in always going around constantly looking for bigger & better. If I find a particular brand/product that is top notch in MY estimation, than I will stay with that brand/product.

To me an audio snob are all those who come in here & put down or hold it against Polk because they are mass market produced. What is wrong with the fact that they are & sold in fairly large stores? why is there always a negative connotation to mass market produced, sold in Tweeters & the like a bad thing?

When people stop making these negative connotations I will stop saying they are snobs.

The Polkies who are un-Polked have encouraged countless newbies to buy Polk products and provided good advice for them to maximize their enjoyment of the Polk brand. In this regard, we are no different from you. I'm sure the accountants at Polk Audio don't have a problem with that.

In terms of mass market, as the name implies, such speakers are designed for the average consumer. Most of the veterans on this forum are not "average" audio consumers, so our perspective is different. There's nothing wrong with the mass market; it serves as a launch pad for new discoveries.

haimoc

Tony said it all for me...

tonyb wrote: »

You guys kill me.........Polk makes some damn good speakers,period.Anyone who says otherwise is an ideot...period.That being said,Polk designs and costructs speakers to match a certain price point that their marketing dept says will give them the best chance to make money....yes,make money,they are a company that likes to keep the doors open ya know.Some of us have moved on to "Boutique" brands because our price point is higher or we just like a different sound.I for one,appreciate Polk speakers and the company as a whole and to put them down after moving on is a terrible thing in my mind.
Cathy,me thinks you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.You know many of us have moved on,and stay here because we realize the great value Polks are,and are willing to help others since some of us have owned tons of Polks over the years.While I will agree that some need to get down off the high horse sometimes,that by no means undermines our commitment to further newbs interest in Polk Audio.Ok,off the soapbox....Polks are great,speakers to meet all your needs,CS beyond any other,great people,nuff said.

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

In terms of mass market, as the name implies, such speakers are designed for the average consumer. Most of the veterans on this forum are not "average" audio consumers, so our perspective is different. There's nothing wrong with the mass market; it serves as a launch pad for new discoveries.

Thank you for pointing out that I'm average :rolleyes: . Careful that statement is marginally snobbish. Sorry but with respect to Polk you are off the mark about mass market = average when it comes to Polk. Perhaps many other compaines could be construed this way, but I think Polk is above average in most if not all aspects. Certainly not the best, but certainly not average.

H9

tonyb

Early,the problem you are having is you keep useing the word"average" and "Polk" in the same sentence...your pissing off people bro.

ohskigod

its all perception folks,

for example, in Early's opinion, he liked the sound of the Norh and BIC better, where I have heard Norh (the one that looks like a drum) and various BIC speakers and think Early must have been sniffing glue. but hey man, what sounds better to his ears is better to his ears. My ears drastically disagree, so i put my money where my ears go, not anyone elses. Early will also do the same.

I've heard alot of boutique brands, Martin Logan (various) B&W 802's, Vienna accoustics, and various more. did I like them, yeah, but not alot. Now keep in mind I focus more on bang for buck than most others do, so maybe that alone skewed my perception of what I was listening to (i.e. so much more money meant I was expecting it to sound at a level of perfection that does not exist). My B&W demo probably personifies that, they were priced at around 8 or 9 g's I believe, being played through huge tube monoblocks costing at least 5g's a piece. I listened to it, and was underwhelmed. I really think knowing the price skewed my perception, but for whatever reason, I probably wouldnt buy that set up, certainly not for that coin, over what I got now (including my LSi's).

ohskigod

for the record, I dont put people that buy LSi's, or even RTi's as average. That is still on the higher end for investment in a home theater system than most spend. Maybe its average if you factor only the nutty enthusiasts (namely us ), but certainly not the average for all buyers, no friggin way man.

your telling me the average home theater buyer spends:

RTi10's, I dont know, like a grand
CSi5 400ish?
surrounds 3-400 ish?

close to 2 g's on speakers alone? this does not compute as average to me.

the #'s for LSi's are even higher above my perception of the "average buyer"

again, it all comes down to perception

Early B.

ohskigod wrote: »

its all perception folks,

for example, in Early's opinion, he liked the sound of the Norh and BIC better, where I have heard Norh (the one that looks like a drum) and various BIC speakers and think Early must have been sniffing glue.

IMO, the RTi series is too bright. This shouldn't come as a surprise because we've all heard that before. BIC, Ascend Acoustics, etc. had the same level of detail, clarity, etc. as the Polks, but weren't as bright, hence, a better sounding speaker, IMO. Nevertheless, I think the RTi series is a good value and I have been recommending them to newbies for the past several years and continue to do so.

Since I don't own Polks, should I stop recommending them?

Ferres

I used to have the LSI9's. I really liked them and had no intention of replacing them.

Then one day, the audio store sent me a pair of sensys dc2's for auditioning and I listened to them for a couple of weeks. Never really noticed much difference with 'audio memory' being so short and all at the time. When testing was done I sent back the sensys and put back the old lsi9's.

This was the first time I felt fatigue from the Lsi's. After 2 hours I could not listen anymore and I asked the dealer to bring back the sensys dc's.

ohskigod

Early, I hear you on the forward issue with RTi's, I've heard that in some in store demos. hook them up to the wrong reciever (seems they dont get along with Yamaha too well) and they can come off a little bright. they are definitly a little more forward than say BIC, but for theater use, that can be a good thing.

forgot to add Dynaudio to the list of higher end speaks I heard, and gotta say, the danes impressed pricepoint be damned. cant remember the model, but the guy got them for a little under 3g used and apparently cost over 8g's new. only a couple years old too. a little over analytical for my taste, but accurancy?....NICE. Depth of soundstage was stunning.
at there pricepoint, they damn well better sound better than LSi's.....Jesus!!.LOL

IF one has LSi's, they have to make sure they exhausted equipment upgrades that will get the most out of them before moving up in speaker in my humble opinion. every electronics upgrade was a significant improvement over what the LSi's put out. more so than any other spekaer I have, or currently own

Early B.

ohskigod wrote: »

IF one has LSi's, they have to make sure they exhausted equipment upgrades that will get the most out of them before moving up in speaker in my humble opinion. every electronics upgrade was a significant improvement over what the LSi's put out. more so than any other spekaer I have, or currently own

Yeah, I think the next version of the Lsi series should be 8 ohms. Lots of folks who own them probably aren't hearing what they can really do.

VR3

I would really like to see the LSi line have a tower that is MTM - no sub.

I would buy that tower - just to hear it. I dont need no stinkin sub! - The LSi9 at Polkfest had amazing amounts of bass - sometimes a lil congested to the mids, but good bass none the less.

But I dont know if they should be 8 ohms...because even at 8 ohms, they are a speaker that will need more than a receiver amp section to sound their best....

heiney9

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

I would really like to see the LSi line have a tower that is MTM - no sub.

They do, the LSi 15 is an MTM, perhaps not a TRUE D'appolitto array since the the tweeter is not directly in the center of the drivers, but both drivers are x'd at the same freq. If they weren't mirror imaged (not a bad thing) they would be a classic MTM D'appolitto array.

I am considering a jump from the 9's to the 15's to combat the weakness of the slighty exaggerated lower mid-bass on the 9's. For recordings that are already heavy in that area it becomes very apparent and bit too much for my tastes.

H9

VR3

The LSi15 - while I am sure is a great speaker. To me is not a MTM design, it has carry on - a passive sub.

Before its over, Ill have two active 12's, two active 15's and two passive 15s and 2,800 watts of subwoofer going on in my system. So I really do not need any more woofers or subs on my mains to contribute anymore to the bass department. Now I do require a speaker that can dig low and hard so for music I can cross my subs over real low and turn them down real low to mate with them instead of pulling all the duty.

so if they were to attach a lower chamber to the LSi9, smooth out that midbass bump the 9 has going on - I think theyd have an excellent tower on their hands. But I definitely dont need anymore subbage in my room. haha

heiney9

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

The LSi15 - while I am sure is a great speaker. To me is not a MTM design, it has carry on - a passive sub.

. The 8" driver is active as it's part of the system and in the x-over and not a PR. Not internally amplified by a seperate amp. How is it not an MTM design? Not a true D'appolitto, but surely an MTM design.

Perhaps we are both splitting hairs here, but I see nothing wrong with the design in any way, shape or form and it's quite similar to many other speaks boutique's and others included.

H9

P.s. an MTM can have other drivers beside just the configuration of MTM and it's still an MTM design.

ohskigod

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

so if they were to attach a lower chamber to the LSi9, smooth out that midbass bump the 9 has going on - I think theyd have an excellent tower on their hands.

with your woodworking skills, that sounds like a sweet diy project for you

get a pair of nines used, and build a tower cab for them. existing drivers and crossover should still be ok, just a question of what the greater interior volume would do for the bass response. they would dig deeper I'm sure, as well as perhaps tame the bloated midbass issue (which I have heard at times as well, although not that bad in my experience).

ohskigod

ps, heiney, I think on of the 15's midbass driver goes up to 400, and the other up to 2000 hz (i.e. they have 2 different frequency cut offs like the 9 and the LSiC does) could be wrong though.

VR3

I, from my needs from a main speaker do not see the need of the 8" active driver on the LSi15.

Simply put, it is not needed when you are dealing with a quality midbass driver. The LSi9 displays adequate bass, a tower design can only capitalize on those abilities and make them better.

As I pointed out, I just do not need an 8" side firing woofer of any kind. Kind of like why I went the 7u over the Linbrook sys 2 (7.5 midbass, 8.5 woofer) --- just made more sense for my system path...

That would be a fun project - but I think the crossover may be a lil off. Usually the crossover points are different between towers and bookshelves.

dkg999

Wow, interesting discussion! Obviously I like and have a fondness for Polk speakers. They are excellent values at their price point, from a SQ and build standpoint, no doubt about it. I also think that Polk has smart marketing people and they know where the market segment is that will spend enough money to make their revenue/profit targets, and they have to design for that market. That market segment may not always be correlated to what the more active enthusiasts that take time to discuss their hobby online are seeking out. But give Polk Audio their due respect, because they do a damn fine job of trying to satisfy both ends of that spectrum!

Variety is the spice of life! There are many very good speakers out there across all the price points, new and used. You don't have to abandon Polk Audio to try them! You can always come home. Matt Polk will leave the light on

venomclan

Out of my travels, Polk Forum is my favorite and I call this place my home. I think Polk offers products that in many cases far exceed their performance price point. At the same time, no company can/will provide everything to everyone in this rapidly changing global economy. A company must be profitable to survive and as of right now, that is headed more toward the ipod than the high end in audio.

I will always consider myself a Polkie even though I no longer use Polk products. Up until the LSi line, there were really no Polk speakers I could consider for 2 channel. The Tri-lam tweeter was just too bright for my tastes. That does not mean they are bad, just not for me. So I moved on. No matter how much $ or time I divest in this hobby, I always try to help a newbie no matter how much their system costs and I feel that a lot of the guys here feel the same and are always here to help. Nobody should leave because they do not have Polk products anymoe, hell Matt Polk sold the company, it is business.
V

hearingimpared

madmax wrote: »

That has got to be the quote of the month!
madmax

Chuck you don't behave like an audio snob and your system is worth new what, um $60K????:D

heiney9

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

I, from my needs from a main speaker do not see the need of the 8" active driver on the LSi15.

Simply put, it is not needed when you are dealing with a quality midbass driver. The LSi9 displays adequate bass, a tower design can only capitalize on those abilities and make them better.

As I pointed out, I just do not need an 8" side firing woofer of any kind. Kind of like why I went the 7u over the Linbrook sys 2 (7.5 midbass, 8.5 woofer) --- just made more sense for my system path...

That would be a fun project - but I think the crossover may be a lil off. Usually the crossover points are different between towers and bookshelves.

I guess I just took issue with the fact you stated it wasn't an MTM design. And Lou you are correct they are crossed over slightly differently according to the schematic so they aren't a classic D'appollito array but they are an MTM design. Sorry for splitting hairs, I can get a bit anal sometimes.

H9