So, I realized something.. *sigh*

VR3

If I get two preamps, HT and 2 Ch -

My 2 Ch preamp would essentially be doing exactly what my CDP can already do. Lower and raise the volume.

So my question is - is there any downside to not having a preamp in the mix for music?

If so, I think I will just get a HT preamp and be done with it.

Any thoughts?

george daniel

I don't see anything wrong with it,makes sense It worked for me with the Ah!

AndyGwis

Wouldn't hurt to try it direct. With a CD player and Amp like you have already, I'm sure it will sound awesome with or without pre.

Give er a try.

Gaara

Well how good is the volume control on your Shanling? I mean all preamps are made to raise and lower the volume but not all are created equal. Also how does it do it, does it change the volume in the digital domain? Chances are a seperate pre will do a better job then the cd player will.

You also have to consider that unless your amp has two inputs you have to run the CDP into something. If you are running it into the HT pre then you are going through all their circuitry. If you had a seperate 2ch pre then you would run the cdp and HT pre into that, therefore bypassing the HT pre's circuitry for the CDP.

Jared

billbillw

Many people do this. With proper matching of components, a preamp is not needed, especially if you are only using a CD as the source. I'd have a tough time getting away from a pre because I won't give up my tuner or my vinyl rig.

VR3

Well I have it plugged up already - havnt had a chance to listen extensively though...

The CDP has two sets of outputs though, so thats cool. I can plug up right and left subs. But right now Im splitting (YIKES) them together to form one big channel for the subs...

The high end seems a lil clearer and more defined - just from listening casually.

I am purchasing the higher end tubes Mike had for this CDP to further it.

Cool, this saves me alot of money.

Well, I still need a preamp - for HT (DVD, XBox, Tuner, VCR, TV - yada yada) - but I can get a HT preamp, use both sets of inputs on my amp and rig something up (in a good way) for the subs...

But for CD, I want an extremely nice preamp or CDP running the front.

So - if you guys say it will work, Ill go with it for a while and see what happens.

BlueMDPicker

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

So my question is - is there any downside to not having a preamp in the mix for music?

The only downsides I've encountered are lack of convenience in using other line sources, and (with amplification of lower input sensitivity) a slightly diminished dynamic punch.

I'm currently using a PS Audio preamp with the CDP on the configuarable HT bypass input for the "best of both worlds" approach to multiple source 2 CH.

VR3

The CDP would run directly to the amp - it raises it digitally. But then again, so did the B&K - so not a huge switch...

I dont know, gotta listen closer. I had the B&K for 3 years, so I can easilly discern if I have an improvement or not.

Will report back.

Thanks for the comments.

If the music is missing dynamics and overall volume, then the first thing I will do come next week is confirm my order for the Candela. Haha!

engtaz

Keep us informed.

engtaz

Ricardo

If you have the CDP directly hooked to the amp, how will you hook the HT pre to the amp?

Never mind; just read where you say your amp has two inputs.

WilliamM2

My amp also has two inputs. I've been running my CD player direct to my amps for 2 channel for years. One less component in the chain leads to better sound IMHO. I have always believed less is more fo 2 channel.

On my CD player, one output is fixed and the other is variable. This would not work with your planned sub hookup. Are both outputs on the Shanling variable?

tonyb

Useing a seperate pre,while not really a must,you may benefit by a better sounstage than your cdp.Try it both ways,some like it some don't.

WilliamM2

How would a Pre improve the soundstage? While each component has the ability to color the sound, I don't see how it can "add" sounstage. I've always thought sounstage was improved direct.

reeltrouble1

So now on to vinyl, what you going to do???

Sid, keep doing your thing, at some point I suspect you will come back to a pre but I will get in line with the rest of the guys, nothing wrong at all running straight from your source to the amp, I suppose one could argue having a seperate source/amp for each piece is the ulitimate in seperates and signal preservation. No piece can ever improve the signal, it can only let it be without degrading things, or if it does degrade it, it does so in a way that the result is euphonic.

RT1

VR3

I guess when you say variable - the volume control turns it up and down? If so, then yes.

Will report back.

Early B.

You don't need a freakin' preamp. Forget about it for now. Later on, if you want to experiment with a few of them, then so be it.

tonyb

WilliamM2 wrote: »

How would a Pre improve the soundstage? While each component has the ability to color the sound, I don't see how it can "add" sounstage. I've always thought sounstage was improved direct.

Your right,each component adds something to the sound,though a pre is used mainly to control volume and switch sources,it still adds flavor,some add a wider soundstage and depth.All a matter of preference IMHO.Of coarse the better your cdp,the less you'll probably like your pre.Diff. strokes....

VR3

Well the Shanling is noticeably smoother than say, my B&K was.

The deciding factor for me will be can the Shanling get the music LOUD enough.

ben62670

Non passive pre amps have Op Amps inside them. Op Amps are just little amplifiers. Just like big amps they have different characteristics. Some amps are cleaner than other, some are more punchy than other, and some are more detailed than others. Now after saying that your CD player has Op Amps inside of it for the line out. Well some CD players are tubed, and some Pre's are tubed, which is a whole other argument. So adding a Pre can improve on sound, but I also like to have as little in the way of signal path as possible.

Enjoy Ben

danger boy

you really should demo the Outlaw 990 pre amp. it does very good in 2 channel mode. the 2 channel modes it offers are.. stereo, bypass and upsampling. bypass to me sounds the best. It's no slouch in the 2 ch dept like alot of other HT pre amps are.

VR3

The 990 is a GREAT HT preamp. You have to remember my Dad owns it....

But, nothing replaces a nice 2 ch preamp, thats for sure...

danger boy

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

The 990 is a GREAT HT preamp. You have to remember my Dad owns it....

But, nothing replaces a nice 2 ch preamp, thats for sure...

how could i possibly know your dad has the 990 pre amp???? :rolleyes:

ND13

I've ran my rig both ways and I prefer the sound thru the ELP than thru just the cdp. Just my opinion.

VR3

Yeah, I am thinking I am going to go ahead and purchase the Odyssey preamp...

I am noticing slight static with volume and track changes - dont like that.... but it will hold me over while I get a preamp as well...

I didnt mean to say "You have to remember" FWIW, dont know why I said that. But you get the idea.

My Dad has one, Ive heard it - programmed one. Its a great unit by far.

madmax

Sometimes you get a good match between source and amp but in general I have found the sound somewhat thin and non-dynamic when running straight.
madmax

VR3

Yeah, it sounds more "electronic" and less musical to me.

Cleaner, sure.

But the staging seems a tad smaller than when my B&K was in the chain - and like I said, less foot-tap-ability.

Serendipity

Trey,

Are you taking the two L/R channels and splitting it into one for the sub?

Never short the two L/R channels together using a Y splitter!

steveinaz

Another point to consider is how well the CDP's volume level "tracks." Many times they are not as accurate (or quiet) as a good preamp volume knob.

My personal observations trying this, was that the music was too nuetral, sterile. I like the extra punch that the gain of a preamp provides.

Just something to think about...

ohskigod

this is one of those questions that does not have a solid answer. gotta try both, see what sounds best.

while my Jolida does not have a volume control, My Sophia Electric Baby amp did (the little 10 watt/ch tube amp) It had a volume put, and when I hooked the Jolida up to it directly, I liked it a little better than with the Anthem PRe2l in the mix (saying something, since I really like the Anthem)

when I used the baby amp, I didnt use the Anthem. Now that I have no amp or sourse with volume control, I use the anthem. its all about what sounds best to you, try both, roll with what you like best.

Shizelbs

Trey, I have the day off today. I'll try playing around with my system and let you know my thoughts on trying it without the pre in the mix. I have not yet tried, so no opinion as of now.

halo

I tried this a couple of different ways.

The TAD's have a gain / volume knob so I hooked the Jolida direct into the amp. Didn't like it.

The Sheng Ya has a volume control (like your Shanling). Hooked to the InnerSound or the TAD direct was not as good as going through the pre to me.

YMMV.

Good luck!