Dancin' Drivers

Ricardo

And the stated FR is not the absolute lowest Hz that will make the speakers sound...just the Hz that will produce sound at certain levels

reeltrouble1

no duh, so no sounds comes out just wobble wobble wobble.........from the rumbling. The spec is 25 hz. Are you saying you can hear something out of a Monitor 7 at 10hz.

If its a pop it cannot be a good thing, possible the driver physically hitting its limits.....


RT1

Ricardo

All I am saying is what I said; no idea if you'll hear anything at 10 or 15Hz

jakelm

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

no duh, so no sounds comes out just wobble wobble wobble.........from the rumbling. The spec is 25 hz. Are you saying you can hear something out of a Monitor 7 at 10hz.

If its a pop it cannot be a good thing, possible the driver physically hitting its limits.....


RT1

If the speaker moves, it makes sound, weather audible to the human ear or not. But if the speaker is moving, in any way or form, its producing waves, sound waves.

You cant hear 10hz, but you can certainly see it. The thing is that the 7's have a PR, which even though the little 6.5" driver cant preasurize a room, the 10" PR will accomplish it much easier.

No...popping is not good for a driver. Popping sound is a clear sign of excursion limits.

madmax

Yashu wrote: »

When I had my TT hooked up I noticed that one album would cause my woofers to move to almost max excusion at about 5-10hz...

All speakers will operate all the way from DC up. 0.1 hz, no problem. Even pure DC will drive them. (one direction, but they will still move)

madmax

jakelm

madmax wrote: »

All speakers will operate all the way from DC up. 0.1 hz, no problem. Even pure DC will drive them. (one direction, but they will still move)

madmax

And if you take a 9v battery and touch the poles really really really fast, you will get some bass...lol:eek:

Yashu

Reel:

It was about 5-10hz... it was plain as day, all you had to do was LOOK AT THE WOOFER! Duh!

It did it on any speaker... just look at the woofer... 5-10hz is so slow it is easy to see. You can even test by generating a 10hz sinewave with a tone generator, but be careful as this can overheat your amp really quickly.

I never said I FELT the output, I said there was 5-10hz movement at max excusion... which was true... port whiff and all. In case you were wondering, it was Herbie Hancock's Headhunters album. Only that album did this, and only the vinyl... my digital version does not have this. I attributed it to the quirkyness of vinyl and never thought about it much. It didn't effect the sound unless you turned it up too loud, then the port whiff became audible.

It was this experience that made me wonder if subwoofers for music were even desired, because it made me think (since I make music too) that there are probably a lot of albums out there with subsonics that were never meant to be heard, but with modern subwoofers would be audible, or at least felt. In fact, I find subwoofers a distraction with music... and prefer a gentle rolloff around 30hz. On the flip side, I find ultrasonics to be just as bad... and do not like "supertweeters" or anything that does not have a natural rolloff at the top. I am not saying that extended treble is bad, I am just saying that things should come down gracefully on both ends of the spectrum.

jakelm

Yashu. the square wave has always been a debate. Where to roll off? Start rolling off after the human ear or before?

In some musical peices, there are dynamics that are ment to be heard or felt but cannot be reproduced with the average loudspeaker. In those instances a well ballanced sub could be a wonderfull thing. So dont knock the sub too much.:D

reeltrouble1

or a well designed set of floorstanders which need no sub at all.

RT1

jakelm

RT1, you and I are a perfect example of a HT guy and a 2 channel guy...lol

Yashu

I am in the RT1 camp here... I can't imagine a sub/sat combo can match the coherence of a full range tower. It completely goes against the audiophile ideal: which is a single full-range point source... of course, there are few (if any) single driver speakers that can do this... but placing drivers all over the room just seems weird.

I know that subs have their place in HT... It makes sense there, where you want to FEEL the sound as much as hear it... but with music... I dunno.

As far as the "square wave"... as an electronic music producer I am fully aware of the limitations of the loudspeaker. You can have a perfect square waveform in the digital domain... but how can a speaker create one? It defies the laws of physics.

I know that I get listener fatigue a LOT quicker when a setup is known for super extended highs, this is mostly dependent on the recording, but the system plays a part in being able to recreate those un-natural sounds. One of the reasons vinyl might sound so nice is the fact that there is a mechanical limitation to the frequency range... a natural mechanical roll-off... this is something I actually look for in a speaker, tight bass/midbass, liquid midrange, and sweet, ear-pleasing treble. I find that, especially with certain digital players, that there is a lot of unwanted artifacting up close to 20khz, stuff that you might not actually hear directly, but are just amplified when you have a tweeter that remains level well into the ultrasonics... It depends on DACs, resampling, oversampling, and if the recording actually has these errors from the AD process, ect... I don't know. Some people love it, but it hurts my ears. With the right system, digital can recreate the signal in a way that is more "analog"... without those strange ultrasonic effects, smoothing them out, if you will.

jakelm

I have my 2 channel gear. And Yashu i completle agree with you. In the 2 channel music world, that I live in also, its 2 channels, 2 speakers.

The problem alot of us in todays world have, is that, I know it to be in my case, my 2 channel system is part of my HT system. My 7b's, although sound absolutly fantastic, are not in the ideal place for strict 2 channel listening (on stands on the floor for correct bass responce), so by having them in a bookshelf, I am forced to sacrifice bass. So I went with subs to make up the difference. My subs are not your average subs. They are tuned very low and are played at very minimal volume as to not interfear with the 7's.

I also agree with your analog opinion, but I found it to be the opposite. With today's compressions, even on "master" disk, the TT delivers more dynamic range, to my ear. More depth and soundstage. Rather than just a loud "in your face" recording done by many studios today for CD. Although, there are some great SACD's out there that can and do give a master album a run for its money.

My taste is still in the music feild, but more in SACD and DVD-A recordings, that were recorded for my type of system.

What I ment when I said square wave in speakers was, to have a speaker as flat "as possible" from 20 -20khz. But there are some people who prefer a speaker that can deliver a flat responce from 18-24khz and others, like you, that would prefer a roll off at 40hz and 15khz.

I grew up on my father's vintage Linn Sondek TT (which I still own today) with a matched vintage Infinity DSP Amp and Pre, with stacked 7a's. I still today absolutly love it, but there is just something about a well recorded 5.1 chanel SACD that blows me away.

Yashu

Yeah, engineers take the dynamic range of a CD and totally abuse it these days. I think vinyl and tape almost forced engineers to master correctly, because there was only so much you could get the needle to do with acceptable accuracy. This is making me wish I had my TT setup again.

Then you have the current loudness wars, but that is another story, hehe.

jakelm

It is a shame...With all that avaliable disk space for pure lossless content, disk space just going to waste.