Dancin' Drivers
zombie boy 2000
Posts: 6,641
I noticed that when I play music on my turntable, the drivers of all my speakers are a bit more active then when using a digital source. Even at the same volume, there is a considerable difference in the way the drivers behave. This has been the case with three different pairs of speakers... so I know the issue isn't down that alley.
In fact, I'm not even sure it's an issue since there seems to be no audible problems.
So... is this normal? And if not, any suggestions?
In fact, I'm not even sure it's an issue since there seems to be no audible problems.
So... is this normal? And if not, any suggestions?
I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
Post edited by zombie boy 2000 on
Comments
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That is the subsonic rumble. It is some amount of feedback between your TT and speakers and/or possibly a physical movement of the stylus. It robs power from the amplifier and can damage speakers if its too bad. Until you hear bad things coming from the speakers I wouldn't worry too much but you could try moving the table or placing it on something different.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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I emailed the good folks at Pro-ject and they said the exact same thing concerning feedback between the TT and speakers. As I said, there's nothing audible, but the activity is a bit "violent".
Since I'm a complete and utter newb when it comes to spinning vinyl, could you expand upon your "stylus movement" theory?I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »As I said, there's nothing audible, but the activity is a bit "violent".
Maybe that's why they call it "sub-sonic", eh?:pI never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
In the old days, many pre-amps, integrated amps, and receivers had a sub-sonic filter option to eliminate this. It was kind of a non-audiophile easy way out, but it would eliminate both the sub-sonic rumble and your need for speakers that dug low or a sub-woofer.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
True... but are there any speakers or subs that can dig that low? It's my understanding that this is product of frequencies well below 20 Hz. Maybe I'm wrong...I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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They are very low frequency, maybe up to 30 or 40 hz but most likely lower. Subsonic filters are considered by many to be non-audiophile not because they cut those frequencies but because in the best setups sometimes there is a change on up in the audible frequencies just because the filter is in place. Comes back to that old issue of tone controls causing problems.
Movement of the stylus (moving around on the record because it is off center, warped, heavy arm moving because of momentum in a warp, or bad bearing) can be seen. Look closely at the needle and see if it is acting like the suspension on a car, bending up and down while keeping the arm fairly stationary.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
when i play an album, I have to raise the volume up to nearly 50% on the pre amp to get a good level.. when doing that it (the needle) picks up more noise.. is this common? Why does vinyl need so much volume?PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Look closely at the needle and see if it is acting like the suspension on a car, bending up and down while keeping the arm fairly stationary.
So basically... the arm should be moving and not the stylus. If I go home tonight and find that the stylus is moving like a "car suspension", what actions should I take?I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
That means one of two things. The first possibility is the arm is a high mass (heavy) arm and your cartridge is meant for a light arm. This has nothing to do with the tracking force you have set. The second possibility is you have the tracking force set too light or heavy. Too light causes it to be bouncy for light warps, too heavy causes it to be too bouncy for bigger warps.
Edit: I'm sure there are better ways to explain this, I'm just not good at it.Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
You're doing perfect Chuck...
I really appreciate it.
To clarify a bit, I have the Pro-ject Debut which comes with a premounted cartridge -- so that rules out one of your scenarios. Due to the TT's hazy instructions, setting the tracking force has been an adventure. However, upon further correspondence with the manufacturer, I thought I finally had it set.
Your ideas above have me thinking otherwise....
When you say "warped"... is that something that could be relatively invisible to the eye? The records I own all appear unwarped. But maybe my conception of the word is way off base...I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Very few records are actually flat OR warped. I mean warped in a minimal way as in not quite flat. Back to feedback, I would suggest moving your table around as a test, even if you don't plan to leave it there. When I moved mine around I found it sounded different and had different characteristics depending on where I put it in relation to the speakers and what I placed it on.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
I should probably re-check how level it is, as well. Thanks for all your help. This should be fun.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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So I pretty much have eliminated most of the rumble in my set-up. A bit of balancing here and there, and placing a Wii right by it seemed to be a recipe for success.
However, the oddest thing happened on Saturday. I was watching Grosse Point Blank and a scene where Cusack starts spinning some vinyl comes on. I **** you not when I say the subsonic rumble came back in full force.
Now... I know, I know. This has nothing to do with my TT. This was courtesy of the good folks at Dish and TNT. But it was there, nonetheless.
Any ideas????I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Do you have a concrete foundation or crawl space where you live? I never get any subsonic movement from my speakers/TT set up but the concrete foundation and a level mount help that out for sure. The only time I get cone movement is if I bump the TT while it's playing...I hate that. How far is the TT from the speakers? I remember when I was around 15, I had a Technics TT and a pair of Sansui (non-kabuki) speakers and had some subsonic action go on a lot. It seemed to be more predominant on acoustic suspension speakers than ported. Weird, I know, but that's what I remember.Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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Crawl space and the foundation is a smidge uneven -- at least according to the home inspectors.
Not enough to be problematic in anything but setting up a TT.
That being said (and it was), I'm more curious about how I would get a noticable amount of rumble from a record being spun in a movie. It just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm probably missing something here and it may be perfectly normal.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »I'm more curious about how I would get a noticable amount of rumble from a record being spun in a movie. It just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm probably missing something here and it may be perfectly normal.
I record a lot of vinyl. Whatever is happening during the recording process is exactly what you get when you play it back. (remember, the cartridge/record is a big microphone). If I record something with the speakers bouncing around, then that is what I get when I play it back. If I had the volume all the way down and the speakers were not bouncing, then they don't upon playback.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Makes sense to me...
so maybe I'm not completely insane.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
what receiver are you using? i had a terrible rumble problem with an older Luxman 7070DB month's ago. Since then.. the rumble from my TT has been nearly eliminated. try a different receiver if you have one..PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
No rumble here; Bass "moves" my recliner but it seems no feedback (or whatever it is) reaches the TT
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I wouldn't want to go too far.zombie boy 2000 wrote: »Makes sense to me...
so maybe I'm not completely insane. Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
I know this only because this giant hamster named Bopo keeps telling me so.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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When I had my TT hooked up I noticed that one album would cause my woofers to move to almost max excusion at about 5-10hz... it was quite weird. I never knew if it was the way the album was recorded, pressed, or if it was something else wrong in the way I had things setup.
This was with my vintage pioneer TT with a new grado cartridge, but it would do this with other cartridges, preamps, ect... but just the one album. I always figured it was just the way it was recorded. -
wow, what speakers were those????
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »wow, what speakers were those????
RT1
Yes, please tell us the speakers and how you measured the output of 5Hz and also what amplifier were you using? Must have been one helluva pair of speakers as well as one very stout amplifier.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Sorry for the de-rail -
Brock did you get the info I sent you?Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
Sorry for the de-rail -
Brock did you get the info I sent you?
Yes, I did and I tried to send a PM and it says you aren't receiving PM's. So when I get home tonight I'll send you an e-mail.
Thanks for the info
H9
Now back to your regularly scheduled program "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Zombie
Way back when when I used a turntable, the best way to reduce feedback between the speakers and the turntable was to hang the turntable on the wall with 3 wirers. Yes wires. The wooden floor can move up and down. The walls however don't move up and down. I would mount a screw in the wall and connect it with three wires. The 3 wires were joined together and the turntable would be cradled in between the wires. The 3 wire joint was under the turntable. One wire in the back along the wall and 2 wires on each side of the turntable.
I could jump up and down next to the turntable with the needle on the non rotating record and see no woffer movement with the turnatble attached to the wall. No turntable sitting on any table ever allowed me to do that. -
Yes, please tell us the speakers and how you measured the output of 5Hz and also what amplifier were you using? Must have been one helluva pair of speakers as well as one very stout amplifier.
H9
About 10-15hz is about the Fr range my 7b's used to wobble with my Linn Sondek TT. If volume was too loud the 7's would pop (those poor , yet fabulous MW6500's). I know the Fr range now thanks to sine wave test disk.Monitor 7b's front
Monitor 4's surround
Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
M10's back surround
Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
Harman/Kardon AVR-635
Oppo 981hd
Denon upconvert DVD player
Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
Mit RPTV WS-55513
Tosh HD-XA1
B&K AV5000
Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek: -
Interesting, so they would wobble well below the rated Fr response level.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/monitor7/
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »Interesting, so they would wobble well below the rated Fr response level.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/monitor7/
RT1
Yes.
I know many speakers that have fr responses that start to slope in the ~40hz range, but can be over excursed in the upper teens. causing them to "wobble" and pop.
I'll even try to make a short vid of the action.Monitor 7b's front
Monitor 4's surround
Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
M10's back surround
Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
Harman/Kardon AVR-635
Oppo 981hd
Denon upconvert DVD player
Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
Mit RPTV WS-55513
Tosh HD-XA1
B&K AV5000
Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
