New WoodShed constuction under way

reeltrouble1

The new Shed bones are going up. I have used 2x6 floor and top plates. The studs are set on 16" centers, alternating both the back and the front of the wall, the walls actually float off the main block wall to provide isolation from the sturcture. I will use two sheets of drywall to provide mass.

So I can either run the sound insulation vertically alternating with one run in front of the stud and the next behind or I could weave the insulation between the studs sideways. Any thoughts?

I have attached a couple of shots. Please look below as the original links were doa.

RT1

heiney9

Linky no good

Ricardo

I am also going to use two sheets of drywall in my new audio room; will put "green glue" between them for soundproofing.

http://www.greengluecompany.com/

If you're interested I can put you in contact with someone that can give you a small discount.

engtaz

the links are not valid

zombie boy 2000

Those links are like the mighty Excalibur. Who among us is worthy to pull those pics from the stone? I, for one, am not.....

reeltrouble1

OK, maybe these will work, strange how I can see the links and no one else can, must be an individual pm box thing.

RT1

madmax

Thats a good way to make a wall between rooms (the offset 2x4's seperate the two walls) but given the block wall behind it I don't see what it buys you unless you put a piece of drywall on the back side too. I would wrap the insulation through the maze.
madmax

Edit: BTW, congrats on starting the new room!!!

disneyjoe7

Agree with MadMax I don't see a benefit of doing the 2x4 on a 2x6 plate thingy on a CB wall. But all in all no harm just a little more work for your self.


BTW that room may never look the way I remembered it.

reeltrouble1

MM and DJ, yes, I could of put another sheet of drywall on the back, however an "expert" installer who does this for a living in my area said it would not give much if any benefit and unless I put two sheets on the back forget about it as the sound that gets to the drywall along with normal settling could pop a screw, stress the gule, and make something that will vibrate which I have no access to, of course, its a point taken.

The studs are not attached to the block, they float off of it a bit. I was told this is important, isolating the room from the main structure. I was told the staggering of the studs would allow for the weaving of the sound insulation which would help with vibration as the extra studs make the wall more rigid and the weaving breaks up the sound, but what do I know???

I was told to use two sheets of drywall on the front with the green glue stuff for sound asorbtion. Anyway, the two walls that are up are staying as they are. I still have to build the wall that will have the speakers on it, which I believe is most critical, I will have a sheet of drywall on the "backside" as well as the two on front. I will have access to this "backside" as it will hide the stairwell on the other side. So I can get to it if a screw or the glue ever "pops".

From what I have read, reducing/eliminating any holes or opening in the room is most critical. Apparently reducing the ambient level of noise in the room from other areas is just as important as keeping the sounds properly disbursed in the room. My expert friend explained some way to make the panels for the walls, but I need written instructions. Or just buy them.

It has already been a learning experience, thanks for the tips, please keep them coming, this is not my strong suit. I think I am going to actually do an HT on one wall and 2 channel on another so I will need tons of videophile help as I basically am a neophite in higher end video gear. I envision a carousel which rotates so you can easily change the seating positions, but have to think about this one.

Edit,

DJ I am not eliminating the existing Woodshed, that room will likely become my music studio for keyboard/guitar and maybe my weights, this room is going in the storage area we had just outside the Shed.

RT1

madmax

Glue and screw the drywall! OR, they make this cool way to connect a strip to the wood then the other side to the drywall which actually keeps the drywall from contacting the wood. Don't even remember what it looks like but I heard about it on some homebuilding show.

Ricardo

madmax wrote:

OR, they make this cool way to connect a strip to the wood then the other side to the drywall which actually keeps the drywall from contacting the wood. Don't even remember what it looks like but I heard about it on some homebuilding show.

Probably something like this:

http://www.asc-soundproof.com/index-isowall.htm

Double drywall with green glue is supposed to give about the same benefit for less.

Systems

OK...I aint' gonna bust a bubble here, but after 20 years of construction I could make a few comments on the subject. I can't comment on the green sound insulation and double walled drywall. I can tell you that there are other ways to achieve what you are looking for. Owens Corning and Mansfield makes nice sound batt insulation. I've used both in auditoriums, offices, courtrooms etc. If the block is on the exterior be sure to use DryLock or BlockFill before covering. A layer of foam board insulation between the block and studs will add R value as well as extra sound absorbsion. Oh what the hell I could go on and on but I won't. This is your project and this is only my opinion.

schwarcw

I agree with stereo luver on the Drylock, but I think it's too late for that. I don't like most foam boards as they make a great media for bacteria and mold growth. Looking good RT! Good luck! I'd like to know more about your wiring plans! Both speaker and power.

disneyjoe7

Ted, maybe able to add Drylock using a hotdog roller behind studs? I believe he stated they're not mounted to wall.

reeltrouble1

I see no reason for drylock, this area is above ground not below, these walls have never displayed a drop of moisture. I could use both R-value and Sound Insulation in the stud cavities, although the r-value might be lowered a bit, I have a little less than 7" from the front of the top and bottom plates to the actual block. If I do this I could place plastic visquene (sp) behind the studs on the block wall?? My concern is that when the warm and cool air somehow meet the condesation does not become a problem.

Remember this is Georgia, deep south Georgia, as in you'all, as in fried chicken, homney grits, where a garden hose is a "pipe" where dinner is at lunch. OK the climate is mild, cooling the shed in the summer is the major concern as you need heat about 45 days or so in an entire year. You need nothing about 4 months, and cool air the rest of the time, however, these rooms are naturally cooler than the rest of the home because of shading and location, as the lowest level well, hot air rises and all that. I could just open the door to the shed and the unit in that room also handle the new room, but its not my favorite option although it will save some dough.

The present shed is adjacent to this new one, it has standard construction, studs over block wall, pink insulation, never had any moisture problems besides once the air conditioner (hotel style) leaked a bit and was easily repaired.

Stero Luver, when you coming to put the elevator in.........waaaaaa

Whadda mean wires, I need wires??? We have decided to remove the ceiling drywall, use sound insulation in the ceiling instead of dropping down with a false ceiling, so I will wire in the ceiling where practicle. I will do some sofets along the walls for lighting and wire runs, maybe some columns (sp) for wire and speakers, its going to primary 2-channel with an HT thrown in for fun, I am thinking in walls for the HT, of course POLK in walls.

Are there cool ceiling tiles I can use to dress things up a bit?

Next great paradox.

If the Woodshed Rig was to sit in the Reel Time Theater, what in the hell do I call the whole shebang!!!!!!!

Is this a paradox??????????

dont worry about stating opinions, that is what I want, member ideas and thoughts, dont worry as usual I have plenty of my own. If I am wrong about the drylock then tell me why?

schwarcw

If your above grade then you won't need any Drylock. I saw the concrete block and assumed below grade. I still don't like the foam, once you get a little bacteria or mold in there, it won't go away. It's much less of a problem with fibreglass.

Are you going to use some PS Audio outlets or some heavy duty types (Post a link)? Are you using a new power line from the breaker? Maybe something with an isolated ground? Standard 14 guage Romex or 12 guage for 20 amp service?

I'm sorry, I'm an engineer and I like the details:D

madmax

I'm thinking if you are above ground the only thing dryloc could do is trap moisture. Not that it would.
madmax

reeltrouble1

I am a creator I don't which explains why after 2 years of EE I changed majors, but fortunately there are great folks like yourself to help my weakness. This room is already wired with a seperate 20 amp service to the outlets, I will change the outlets (hubbel, psa, etc) to high quality 20 amp, right now they are 20 amp GFI plugs, as in should a Hurricane come its bad news for the Shed. Our last hurricance CAT 3 was over 65 years ago, either we are due or its just not happening.

The existing lighting has its own circuit, also 20 amp, it could be that since this was initially a huge garage 20 amp is code here. I have yet to determine which wire I will use for speaker runs, most likely 14 guage for the HT which I am thinking will be in-walls, with all the gear hidden in a closet. The 2-channel will be a traditional hi-fi set up, you know big wire, go big or dont go.

RT1

strider

Those outlets are so damn expensive, would you see any drawbacks to getting a high quality "hospital grade" outlet from a non-audio source?

reeltrouble1

Well, I am finding some sound products which are different than usual. 1/8" in thickness but very dense to absorb sound anybody ever use this??
You glue/nail it to the studs over traditional insulation, then you hang the drywall using those clips MM mentioned.

RT1

SCompRacer

schwarcw wrote:

I'm sorry, I'm an engineer and I like the details:D

Since Ted hasn't mentioned using it, what are your thoughts of isolated ground circuits? Lots of debate about it, both ways. Waste of wire, not needed in a home, etc. Some say it should actually be called insulated ground. I installed a seperate 20 amp isolated ground for my two channel using all pipe, though code here allows for N/M wire in closed walls/ceilings. I've read that some use 12/3 N/M wire for isolated ground circuits. You just have to tag the Red conductor with green tape to indicate that it is used for a ground.

High marks on your project Ted!

schwarcw

SCompRacer wrote:

. . . what are your thoughts of isolated ground circuits?

This is exactly what I was wondering about. I have a 12/4 wire waiting for me to upgrade my entry service and install two 20 amp breakers. I've got another A21 coming tomorrow and I need "mo paerrrr"!

reeltrouble1

SCompRacer wrote:

Since Ted hasn't mentioned using it, what are your thoughts of isolated ground circuits? Lots of debate about it, both ways. Waste of wire, not needed in a home, etc. Some say it should actually be called insulated ground. I installed a seperate 20 amp isolated ground for my two channel using all pipe, though code here allows for N/M wire in closed walls/ceilings. I've read that some use 12/3 N/M wire for isolated ground circuits. You just have to tag the Red conductor with green tape to indicate that it is used for a ground.

High marks on your project Ted!

The 20 amp power line in the new shed is all pipe from the box, I am trying to use it as my power source as is to hold down the overall costs a bit, not so sure about high marks, I am in the more I learn/less I know phase, just trying to sift through the snake oil and prime applications of sound engineering.

RT1

SCompRacer

You are seeking the proper path so high marks are in order. I was considering building a listening room in the basement. Dear wife would support that and even help to get the gear out of the living room. However, after spending a year completing the 40’ x 14’ lighted lower level, I made a promise to myself. To paraphrase Chief Joseph, I declared I will build no more forever…

So you have one 20 amp circuit for the outlets and one 20 amp for the lighting? What kind of lighting fixtures? Will Ted be hanging wallboard with volunteers or paying someone to do it?

disneyjoe7

Isolated ground circuit for a residential house? I have one where I work but we're talking electronics that would buy everyone's equipment on this board, 70 mil or so we're talking. Is there such a thing for homes? Confused.

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote:

MM and DJ, yes, I could of put another sheet of drywall on the back, however an "expert" installer who does this for a living in my area said it would not give much if any benefit and unless I put two sheets on the back forget about it as the sound that gets to the drywall along with normal settling could pop a screw, stress the gule, and make something that will vibrate which I have no access to, of course, its a point taken.

The studs are not attached to the block, they float off of it a bit. I was told this is important, isolating the room from the main structure. I was told the staggering of the studs would allow for the weaving of the sound insulation which would help with vibration as the extra studs make the wall more rigid and the weaving breaks up the sound, but what do I know???

I was told to use two sheets of drywall on the front with the green glue stuff for sound asorbtion. Anyway, the two walls that are up are staying as they are. I still have to build the wall that will have the speakers on it, which I believe is most critical, I will have a sheet of drywall on the "backside" as well as the two on front. I will have access to this "backside" as it will hide the stairwell on the other side. So I can get to it if a screw or the glue ever "pops".

From what I have read, reducing/eliminating any holes or opening in the room is most critical. Apparently reducing the ambient level of noise in the room from other areas is just as important as keeping the sounds properly disbursed in the room. My expert friend explained some way to make the panels for the walls, but I need written instructions. Or just buy them.

It has already been a learning experience, thanks for the tips, please keep them coming, this is not my strong suit. I think I am going to actually do an HT on one wall and 2 channel on another so I will need tons of videophile help as I basically am a neophite in higher end video gear. I envision a carousel which rotates so you can easily change the seating positions, but have to think about this one.

Edit,

DJ I am not eliminating the existing Woodshed, that room will likely become my music studio for keyboard/guitar and maybe my weights, this room is going in the storage area we had just outside the Shed.

RT1

I've heard of room treatments but this brings it up a whole new level. LOL

hearingimpared

I'm getting some wood here reading about all the possibilities of tweaking my friggin house!!!

TroyD

Ted, Ted, Ted.....You had me right up until you mentioned HT.

Blasphemy, man, BLASPHEMY. Surround gear in the same room as the BAT? Vladmir would have your head on a pike quicker than you could say borscht, comrade.

BDT

SCompRacer

disneyjoe7 wrote:

Isolated ground circuit for a residential house?

The residential isolated ground is not as extensive as your industrial applications. In residential, you use the Orange isolated ground outlet and run a separate ground wire from it to the main panel. With a standard outlet, the ground lugs are connected to the yoke (the yoke being the mounting bracket of the outlet that you screw to the box). The ground lugs are not connected to the yoke on the Orange colored outlets so you need the additional wire to properly ground it.

If you use a separate ground wire with a regular outlet, it is just referred to as a redundant ground to the conduit or the bare ground wire in Romex. The big “if” word comes into play with conduit or Romex grounds. If the conduit is loose at a coupling or at the box, you can have a poor ground. Romex ground wires are usually attached to metal boxes with a spring type clip, unless local code requires it to be screwed. If the clip isn’t tight, you can have a poor ground.

reeltrouble1

TroyD wrote:

Ted, Ted, Ted.....You had me right up until you mentioned HT.

Blasphemy, man, BLASPHEMY. Surround gear in the same room as the BAT? Vladmir would have your head on a pike quicker than you could say borscht, comrade.

BDT

waaaaaaa, yes my good friend, it does nag at me, I originally envisioned two totally seperate rigs in the room, but I just cannot really know if I will be able to work the sound out until I try it. If it will not work then the WoodShed will just remain in the existing room you know with the new room dubbed the Reel Time Theater. The sound problems may occur after the walls are up with the acoustical tiles I will build at reflection points. The outside of the walls will have an acoustical panel starting at the floor to ear level on all the side walls. The front and back walls will get appropriate treatments. I am going to use Polk in-walls for the HT, so the SRS may just be moved to the room as two channel and use the Dodd MLP plus other gear I GET TO BUY!!!! You know TUBE AMPS, TUBE SOURCE!!!!! Oh yea and since I will have an extra pair of Amazings........ok you get the idea, I have not fully made my mind up.

Rich thanks for the lesson, I will consider the possibilites of isolating the ground from the box, my box is already a tidy thing which was added in addition to the original service, a short distance would need to be run to isolate the ground. I presently have a 300 amp service to my home.

The lighting, well, I am thinking of the ceiling fan for air movement with a dimmer for the lights it will have. I will build sofets along the outer walls for a lighting system. Do I need to pull other wire for some computer thing of the future??

My labor pool:

#1 son "mr. inside" is a carpenter/drywall expert, he can do amazing things with mud, makes me look like a two year old with play dough. He is actually building the new shed, sans electrical, which I will do most and will contract a bit.

#2 son is dubbed "mr. outside", he is responsible for maintaing the outside of the home, however, he is no slouch at construction having spent some time in his younger years around a sinker nails.

#3 son-in-law "pea brain" is offsite, however, he is an EE and is responsible for such EE things and anything else I say.

Now #1 son #2 son and pea brain do not ever wish to really upset poppa-son as he holds things they all want after the big dirt nap, enter little-son the wild card and #1 grandson, waaaaa.........I will get a nice shed, ok, we are family.


What do I do??? well, I "research" ideas with you guys, my contribution is what I know, not what I do, well ok, somedays I just have to get my hands on the hammer until #1 son starts laughing to much, if you watch American Chopper and Paulie with his Dad you get the picture.

So keep helping me with the research, in the end it will be a fine listening room for ole RT1 and friends to relax in, listen to music, enjoy family and reflect about the meaning of life and think about women....

Thanks be to be God.

RT1

Systems

Thin your Drylock with acetone or denatured alkyhol....spray in layers. Suspend the drywall with a shaft design...shaftwall constrction that lets the 1 1/4" drywall float between the studs. Final layer with 5/8" and use GSP Metal Beadlock. Think of floating a layer of sprayed expandable foam in the first 1 1/2" of studs for R-Value and absorbsion. Make layers of 1/4" thick cubed plywood set on 1'-4" squares run on transposed alternating patterns stuffed with Corning or Mansfield Soundbatt leaving 3 1/2" or air space at a min.

As reported before...this is only my opinion and experience in this application of construction practice for Courtrooms, Recording Studios, Theaters and the such. Please visit your local RAVE Cinemas, Deff Records, Commedore's Recordings or Charmichael Theaters and rip a hole in the wall to investigate the construction of the site. DO NOT go to your local Courthoue and try this!! :-)