Interconnects or Speaker Cables or Both
reeltrouble1
Posts: 9,312
Its always hard for me to determine what is more important in any given audio system. My tendancy is to look at the whole thing as one unit made up of interdependant parts, each with its own function, however, each contributing equally to the sound of the rig. Any change then to the system changing the sound, whether I hear it or not.
No doubt I have been a supporter of quality wire. I recently read here at CP a post where it was said that wire is a form of tone control, I have been building my rig with an eye toward nuetrality so I do not necessarily believe I want my wire to "color" the sound in either direction.
So what do you say about the connecting wire? Is the sound of the rig more influenced by the interconnect between components or the speaker cable from amp to speaker, ask me and I will say both are important, a true fence sitter.
RT1
No doubt I have been a supporter of quality wire. I recently read here at CP a post where it was said that wire is a form of tone control, I have been building my rig with an eye toward nuetrality so I do not necessarily believe I want my wire to "color" the sound in either direction.
So what do you say about the connecting wire? Is the sound of the rig more influenced by the interconnect between components or the speaker cable from amp to speaker, ask me and I will say both are important, a true fence sitter.
RT1
Post edited by reeltrouble1 on
Comments
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This reminds me of a instance where I had upgraded my ICs (cable swap) and heard a minor difference.
About 2 months later I ugraded ALL my cables and about 5-7 hours later the entire bottom of the system fell out. So Im assuming with that experience that all the cables, together make the biggest difference.
The entire system is only as strong as your weakest link.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
In my somewhat limited experience with interconnects and speaker cables, I have found the most drastic changes to occur when switching out the IC's running from amp to preamp. In fact - whenever I want to pass judgment on a pair, this is the first place I insert them.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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Are you a believer or a non-believer?
I agree with what was said above. They do make a difference BUT synergy is important. ie. you wouldn't want to use thick copper speaker cables with silver IC's. Their inherit sonic properties are different. Also, the more revealing your speakers, the more difference you'll probably hear. -
In my experience, ICs have more effect to my system than SCs. Most of ICs are shielded, and IC shield is intend to proctect the system from interference or noise in general.
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Haveing done my fair share of cable swapping,I would say both.Anytime you change a cable,componant,a tube,power cord,all has an effect on the SQ.So in the end,your ears are the judge of what is neutral to you.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I say it would depend on the speaker type and capacitance of the speaker wire before you could say speaker cable or IC's makes the most difference in a given system. Having moved into ESL's with active crossovers, what worked well for me with magnetic speakers and ribbons with passive crossovers did not apply to the ESL's.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Both.HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
In my experience the cable that carries the most current makes a much bigger audible difference - that would mean speaker cables over interconnects. I suppose if you've got some crazy EMI going on in your room, then IC shielding would be important...otherwise I'd go for the better speaker cables. I do use solid silver for my ICs though.Tannoy Dimension TD10, SOTA Star Sapphire, Heathkit W4A's, McIntosh MC2100, Eddie-Current Zana Deux, Singlepower SDS, Sennheiser HD650, Audio-Technica L3000, Sony Qualia 010
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You's are all nuts!!! Wire is wire is wire. There is no audible difference between any of them. Boy, this ought to start a firestorm!!
PS...My personal favorite to date are Mapleshade IC's & SC's. Will listen to others but for now I am very happy!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Per JohnK's recommendation I threw away my Kimber Heros and replaced them with metal coat hangers---JohnK was right, the coat hangers were cheaper.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Since cables can be a touchy subject I'll preface with >IMO<
IMO, IC at the source #1 which is usually low voltage small signal. The source sonic character permeates the rest of the chain even if sonically altered down the line. The starting signature is in the mix.
Tube and passive preamps need care in IC selection too,yet that doesn't drop the importance of source signal quality.
IMO a cable can be tone a control and improve interface.They can be one,the other,or both,like prescription glasses with tint.
I noticed this when cataloging a few thousand cd's with a headphone rig and
several IC changes throughout. The 'source-amp-cans' with no room effects makes it a good cable microscope. I prefer speakers listening enjoyment.
Of all the flavors which is right? I could say for me and mine. Systems seem to be balancing acts anyway,so unless you have limitless money to buy someone elses hard work and time finding perfection whatever that is,find what you like.
Since the electronic chain is one piece,changes up and downstream effect the system. Speaker wires are part of the synergy ,my choice was to ever so slightly warm some hyperdetail upstream.
Maybe we can see the system as a chain made up of some lead, steel, brass, aluminum,pot metal links as you find and replace the weakest ones you discover new weak links which didn't appear so before.
BTW power delivery tweaking is a shocking player in the synergy chain. -
steveinaz wrote:Per JohnK's recommendation I threw away my Kimber Heros and replaced them with metal coat hangers---JohnK was right, the coat hangers were cheaper.
Damn all you wealthy guys with your fancy coat hanger IC's. I just spent all weekend twisting 1000 paper clips together. -
zombie boy 2000 wrote:In my somewhat limited experience with interconnects and speaker cables, I have found the most drastic changes to occur when switching out the IC's running from amp to preamp. In fact - whenever I want to pass judgment on a pair, this is the first place I insert them.
I would agree. When the store let me test a pair of their new yet relatively cheap ICs the soundstage moved noticably forward with cleaner sound and bass.:DGear: Rotel RC 1082, Rotel RSP 1068 pre/pro, Rotel RMB1077 amp, Cayin CDT 15a CD player, S301 bluray.
Speakers: Tannoy DC sensys speakers, Paradigm Servo15 Sub, Velo Spl-1500r
Conditioner: Isotek
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For me both.Michael
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60° -
steveinaz wrote:Per JohnK's recommendation I threw away my Kimber Heros and replaced them with metal coat hangers---JohnK was right, the coat hangers were cheaper.
On all levels I'm sure.
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
Reeltrouble, in my experience so far, I would have to say IC's.
Not saying that speaker wire isn't important, but unless you are going to spend bukoo bucks on speaker wire, I don't notice, or haven't noticed a difference yet. I would rather go for a power cord upgrade and actually yeild some results.
For everyone's knowledge, I have Audioquest X2 speaker wire. Sounds exactly like lampwire to me, and I'm pushin' some power man. Trust me on that one.:D~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I'd say upgrading IC (between pre and amp) gave me more improvement over SC, although I found an improvement in doing both.
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Descent speaker cables are still important, if you want to hear the minor inflections and tone changes in a performers vocals. The clear separation of the different instruments in more complex background sounds.
I've tried the simpler 'heavy gauge' wire is wire route and noticed the consistent flatness of vocals and the loss of detail with multiple backgound instruments.
Just be warned that there are a lot of snake oil products out there that cost a lot but no better than heavy guage cables.Gear: Rotel RC 1082, Rotel RSP 1068 pre/pro, Rotel RMB1077 amp, Cayin CDT 15a CD player, S301 bluray.
Speakers: Tannoy DC sensys speakers, Paradigm Servo15 Sub, Velo Spl-1500r
Conditioner: Isotek -
Interesting. I believe by the varied comments everyone is correct, system dependent, each unique piece, room, listener and so on. For sure its something to consider, maybe not worry excessively about unless this makes you happy, just consider.
The devil can certainly be in the details.
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Learning things the hard way all the time sucks!
Choose speakers. Choose amp/preamp. Get a good source.
THEN PLAY WITH CABLES! Cables are a fine tuning item.
You can then match a cable to the system to try correcting sound
problems. Much of the research I've done on IC's tells me if
a cable is warm,bright etc. Then apply as needed.
Or , the power of suggestion must make me think that this
is the case. Real or imagined, the net result is the same!!!:D
Let's not get any pissing contests started, ok?"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
The best thing you can do is cup your hands behind your ears while listening to some good music. You will hear more detail than you've ever heard before. Try it!
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PolkThug wrote:The best thing you can do is cup your hands behind your ears while listening to some good music. You will hear more detail than you've ever heard before. Try it!
Someone should invent a kind of headgear or ear attachment. Gear: Rotel RC 1082, Rotel RSP 1068 pre/pro, Rotel RMB1077 amp, Cayin CDT 15a CD player, S301 bluray.
Speakers: Tannoy DC sensys speakers, Paradigm Servo15 Sub, Velo Spl-1500r
Conditioner: Isotek -
This is a very subjective thing--there is no "right" answer. Sometimes the speaker cable will make a bigger difference, sometimes not...
Experiment.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
Oh, this is certainly a believer's thread I was just interested in seeing some other views on which connection our Club Polk believer's favor if any.
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reeltrouble1 wrote:Oh, this is certainly a believer's thread I was just interested in seeing some other views on which connection our Club Polk believer's favor if any.
RT1
use search, its only been covered 100 times. -
I love you being you thuggy, it just would not be the same without you. You are the Man. Thanks.
RT1 -
steveinaz wrote:This is a very subjective thing--there is no "right" answer. Sometimes the speaker cable will make a bigger difference, sometimes not...
Experiment.
As always Steve. Although I do do it, for me A/B sampling always seems to end up being a drag in very short order. Curse of being a music lover, I want to listen to the music not the gear. So if it sounds good I forget I am supposed to be A/B the wire, player, and so on. If I switch from one source lets say to another quickly it seems all wrong as I never listen to music that way. I lose all sense of the music's rythym.
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PolkThug wrote:The best thing you can do is cup your hands behind your ears while listening to some good music. You will hear more detail than you've ever heard before. Try it!
That is what I do all the time. . . I have to for my hearingimpared ear and you are right you do get more detail but it doesn't sound natural when I cup my good ear. -
Ferres wrote:Someone should invent a kind of headgear or ear attachment.
I have ask Antny, Phil, Dave, or Lou . . . I use it on my right ear, the one that has hearing loss. -
I know ICs make a difference and speaker cables make a difference. If I had to choose which makes the most difference immediately, I would have to say speaker wires. Crappy speaker wires or wires that are not a good match for sand amps sound immediately awful. I've heard differences with silver vs. copper ICs right away in most cases but some are so subtle that it can take long listening sessions to hear a difference, long sessions that I would rather not have to sit through. So if there is a dramatic difference and I like that difference over time, I will keep the cable/wire.
I have a pair of old Garth ICs (very high end at the time) from the late 80s. I switched them out with Signal Cables between my preamp and the Parasound amp. I put the Garth cables back because the Signal Cables sounded too bright whereas the Garths sounded more neutral and natural.
