hdmi to dvi

doug lang

Hey running hdmi cables from tv to comcast box. I noticed the comcast port is a dvi hook up. Do i just run dvi male to hdmi on tv.

PolkWannabie

Yes ... This will of course give you video only.

doug lang

Hey thanks. Running an optical from comcast to my receiver will give me audio. I believe this to be correct. I am hooking up a new plasma panasonic 58 and i am trying to eliminate cables. The plasma has two hdmi ports so i will be using less cable. Every little bit helps with my cable wires. Thanks

BaggedLancer

It's not going to work if the TV has new 1.3 HDMI, which I assume it does since you said its a new TV.

the HDCP handshakng for a DVI to HDMI connection with a comcast box only supports HDMI 1.2.

doug lang

Not aware of that. Yes it is a new tv. I will not through away any cables yet. thanks

BaggedLancer

Read my thread.....towards the end it explains it is just not for Samsung, it is for all new tv's.

Your box is the regular HD - non DVR box correct?

Enjoy the read, it was a battle:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48378&highlight=samsung+HDMI

PolkWannabie

Again ... This is NOT an HDMI version issue ... It is a STB manufacturing issue ...

doug lang

Ok just to be clear my comcast box will not support a 1.3 hook up dvi to hdmi. Now this has nothing to do with my dvd 2910 hook up. I plan to use a hdmi to tv hdmi connection. I assume it is just with the comcast box, and it is a manufacturing issue as stated above.

BaggedLancer

PolkWannabie wrote:

Again ... This is NOT an HDMI version issue ... It is a STB manufacturing issue ...

Again, it is the HDMI version issue. HDMI versions are ONLY backwards compatible if the latest version was compatible in the first place. The Comcast STB has no issue whatsoever with using a DVI to HDMI cable on a TV with version 1.2. It is because the HDCP was never configured for v1.3 that it malfunctions.

You can still use a Comcast HD-non-dvr box and DVi to HDMI cable with NO problems on any tv that has 1.2 ports or older. Therefore, it is a version issue.

BaggedLancer

doug lang wrote:

Ok just to be clear my comcast box will not support a 1.3 hook up dvi to hdmi. Now this has nothing to do with my dvd 2910 hook up. I plan to use a hdmi to tv hdmi connection. I assume it is just with the comcast box, and it is a manufacturing issue as stated above.

Correct, only with the Comcast box. Your DVD player should be fine.

PolkWannabie

HDMI 1.3 is compatible w/DVI ... My STB ( Non Comcast ) which is DVI out has no problem going to my TV which is HDMI 1.3 ...

The culprit is clear ... it's not HDMI v1.3

BaggedLancer

PolkWannabie wrote:

HDMI 1.3 is compatible w/DVI ... My STB ( Non Comcast ) which is DVI out has no problem going to my TV which is HDMI 1.3 ...

The culprit is clear ... it's not HDMI v1.3

That is because your box(non comcast) was programmed to use DVI and HDMI 1.3. The comcast boxes were out BEFORE HDMI v1.3 and therefore were never programmed for it, thus leaving you with an HDCP handshaking issue. I mean just think about what you are saying. Take a look at mine/my parents example. My parents have a Sony TV with HDMI v1.2. After hooking up the DVI/HDMI cable it works flawless. Now lets look at my Samsung TV with HDMI v1.3. After hooking up the DVI/HDMI cable it does not work. Therefore, there is an HDCP handshaking to the fact there is a new port version on my tv.

Let's quit while we are ahead in this thread and just leave it be with Doug Lang's tv will NOT work with a DVI to HDMI cable if it is a new tv.

disneyjoe7

BaggedLancer wrote:

That is because your box(non comcast) was programmed to use DVI and HDMI 1.3. The comcast boxes were out BEFORE HDMI v1.3 and therefore were never programmed for it, thus leaving you with an HDCP handshaking issue. I mean just think about what you are saying. Take a look at mine/my parents example. My parents have a Sony TV with HDMI v1.2. After hooking up the DVI/HDMI cable it works flawless. Now lets look at my Samsung TV with HDMI v1.3. After hooking up the DVI/HDMI cable it does not work. Therefore, there is an HDCP handshaking to the fact there is a new port version on my tv.

Let's quit while we are ahead in this thread and just leave it be with Doug Lang's tv will NOT work with a DVI to HDMI cable if it is a new tv.

But...............

I thought that HDMI was backward comparable so HDMI v1.3 will not work as HDMI v1.2 or as HDMI v1.1?

BaggedLancer

disneyjoe7 wrote:

But...............

I thought that HDMI was backward comparable so HDMI v1.3 will not work as HDMI v1.2 or as HDMI v1.1?

It is backward compatible long as the two devices that are being used support the current version you are using.

For instance in the case of the v1.2 and v1.1 you can use that on a Comcast box since Comcast updated their boxes till v1.2. From what I can see though, your host device(in this case the comcast box) would need to be updated to v1.3 to be compatible with a v1.3 device. Once that box is updated to v1.3 it can still work with v1.1 tv's, etc.

Kinda of confusing.....

disneyjoe7

So why doesn't the DVI work with HDMI v1.3 as video only. Isn't DVI like HDMI v1.1?


BTW DVI to HDMI anything should be a no brainer "No Audio" since DVI started out as no audio.

edbert

I think everyone is a little confused. I'll try to sum up without any lingo...

If the device you are using to send a video signal(Comcast cable box) is the newest version, it will work with anything it is sending the signal to if it was a previous version.

If the device you are using to receive the video signal(58 Panasonic) is the newest version, it will only work with something sending that newest connection. It can receive a "dumbed down" signal and display it, but it can not (for lack of a better term) "dumb up" a signal and display it.

In one sentence, it's like trying to send an SD signal to an HD TV, and saying "Figure it out and make it work."

So Doug, call Comcast and get your box reprogrammed to work with your Tv and you shouldn't have any problems.

BaggedLancer

disneyjoe7 wrote:

So why doesn't the DVI work with HDMI v1.3 as video only. Isn't DVI like HDMI v1.1?

Because this isn't configured properly in the host device for the video transfer. If you make the connection stated above you will receive a picture on your tv that flashes every 5-8 seconds with white snow(if using a comcast HD box).

It is somewhat similiar to plugging in a hi-speed USB 2.0 device into a USB 1.0 port. It will work somewhat, but not properly and/or to it's max potential. In the case of the comcast box and v1.3, it works "somewhat", with the flashing picture every 5-8 seconds.

edbert wrote:

I think everyone is a little confused. I'll try to sum up without any lingo...

If the device you are using to send a video signal(Comcast cable box) is the newest version, it will work with anything it is sending the signal to if it was a previous version.

If the device you are using to receive the video signal(58 Panasonic) is the newest version, it will only work with something sending that newest connection. It can receive a "dumbed down" signal and display it, but it can not (for lack of a better term) "dumb up" a signal and display it.

In one sentence, it's like trying to send an SD signal to an HD TV, and saying "Figure it out and make it work."

So Doug, call Comcast and get your box reprogrammed to work with your Tv and you shouldn't have any problems.

Nice work on simple wording. Thanks.

As far as the statement I bolded that you made. This is impossible, read my thread link above to find out why. Comcast has ZERO intention of updated the regular HD box as they want customers to make the transition to the DVR boxes if they want to use the latest and greatest. In the words from comcast, "component cables still work find with out regular HD box, and that is what the major of regular HD customers use so that is how we will leave it, and therefore there is no reason for you to use HDMI." Now we all know there are a bunch of reasons why some of us want to use HDMI. PQ, SQ, cleaner cables, etc. etc. but comcast really doesn't give a **** about their customers.

In the end, change services or switch to their DVR like I was forced to.

edbert

Oops, missed that part. Thanks BaggedLancer.

Definitely switch to DVR though. You'll never watch TV the same way again.

disneyjoe7

Well ok.... But this stuff doesn't add up in TV land guys and gals.

When Color was added to a B&W signal we consumers with our B&W sets didn't stop working.

When Stereo was added to Color Mono signal we consumers with Color Mono or if you still had one B&W mono sets didn't stop working.

When a Digital signal was added to the airwaves for HDTV and or some SD channels also. Did our Analog set tuners B&W mono, Color mono, and Color Stereo just stop working?

The answer to all above is NO it was designed to be backward comparable from the version prior. So I ask WTF happen with this HDMI ****. FCC what's going ON?

edbert

I think it's called "Sticking it to you"

doug lang

Sorry for opening this all up again. I know comcast is not going to update my receiver. Heck last night they lost hd on the major networks. That should happen Sunday.
Thanks all for your input. Doug

disneyjoe7

edbert wrote:

I think it's called "Sticking it to you"

New world thinking, I see I will require drugs to settle myself in the future.

edbert

I just figure at some point it will all settle down anyway. I am still in good ole SD, so it doesn't really affect me right now. By the time I can actually afford an HDTV that I want, have the room for it and then can afford the programming and other necessary equipment and connections, it will probably all have changed again anyway.

Doug, no need to apologize. I think it is good info for people to know. It might end up saving a lot of people a lot of headaches. Drop Comcast and go with one of the satellite providers. You will get most of the equipment that you now need for free and it can probably be setup and running before this Sunday. Good luck!

BaggedLancer

doug lang wrote:

Sorry for opening this all up again. I know comcast is not going to update my receiver. Heck last night they lost hd on the major networks. That should happen Sunday.
Thanks all for your input. Doug

Yea, no need to apologize. I was just giving you the flat out facts at what you are about to face so you aren't disappointed when the time comes to plug in that snazzy new HDMI cable.

You can take edberts advice to switch to satellite or just upgrade to the DVR box. Like he said you'll never watch tv the same again.

Tell Comcast you want a free month trial of a DVR box and give it a shot.

disneyjoe7

Q. Is HDMI backward compatible with DVI (Digital Visual Interface)?

Yes, HDMI is fully backward compatible with DVI compliant devices. HDMI DTVs will display video received from existing DVI-equipped products, and DVI-equipped TVs will display video from HDMI sources. However, some older PCs with DVI are designed only to support computer monitors, not televisions. Consumers buying a PC with DVI should make sure that it specifically includes support for television formats and not just computer monitors.

Also, consumers may want to confirm that the DVI interface supports High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP), as content that requires HDCP copy protection will require that both the HDMI and DVI devices support HDCP to properly view the video content.

Quote from this link below.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp#compatibility_interoperability


Ok so how knows the truth?

PolkWannabie

Each newer version of HDMI is a SUPERset of the precevious versions and HDMI is a superset of DVI ... Therefore ANY version of HDMI should work with ANY OTHER version of HDMI. The capabilities that you can utilize are those capabilities that they both have.

Anything less then this does not have the attributes of backward compatability.

If some particular output device doesn't work with some particular input device then some manufacturer did not observe the standards that were in play at the time the device was manufactured.

As far as my particular STB goes, it was manufactured before HDMI 1.3 existed using DVI output, yet it has no problem communicating to a HDMI 1.3 device.

BaggedLancer

PolkWannabie wrote:

Each newer version of HDMI is a SUPERset of the precevious versions and HDMI is a superset of DVI ... Therefore ANY version of HDMI should work with ANY OTHER version of HDMI. The capabilities that you can utilize are those capabilities that they both have.

Anything less then this does not have the attributes of backward compatability.

If some particular output device doesn't work with some particular input device then some manufacturer did not observe the standards that were in play at the time the device was manufactured.

As far as my particular STB goes, it was manufactured before HDMI 1.3 existed using DVI output, yet it has no problem communicating to a HDMI 1.3 device.

disneyjoe7 wrote:

Quote from this link below.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp#compatibility_interoperability


Ok so how knows the truth?

So if this is the case, then, as we know, there is a problem from within the Comcast STB. In the end of this disagreement it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, the simple fact is a DVI to HDMI cable on a Comcast HD-NonDVR box simply will NOT work with newer TV's.

disneyjoe7

What you are saying is the Comcast DVI output will not display a picture on HDMI input TV. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't, other then the cable box is bad. Or Comcast didn't follow all the rules for DVI standard, which sucks for any one who has Comcast cable, now you have a problem. Customer service says it's the HDMI TV, any F1, F2, F3 problem menu steps don't work, you beat your head against the wall I feel for you.

BaggedLancer

disneyjoe7 wrote:

What you are saying is the Comcast DVI output will not display a picture on HDMI input TV. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't, other then the cable box is bad. Or Comcast didn't follow all the rules for DVI standard, which sucks for any one who has Comcast cable, now you have a problem. Customer service says it's the HDMI TV, any F1, F2, F3 problem menu steps don't work, you beat your head against the wall I feel for you.

Absolutely correct and incorrect. It will display a picture on an HDMI input tv in some cases, which I believed and based on research were v1.2 TV's. It will not display a picture on my new TV which I know for a fact has v1.3. After doing my comparison, using the SAME cable between my parents Sony and my Samsung, the only culprit to blame was the v1.2 versus the v1.3. I took my old box(regular HD), and hooked it up to their TV using my HDMI/DVI cable and the picture worked perfect. Took that SAME box, and SAME cable, hooked it up to my TV and nothing but a blinking picture and white snow.

The ONLY difference between the two TV's is that theirs was v1.2 and mine is v1.3. So you make the decision as to what the cause of the problem was........:rolleyes:

Beating my head against the wall with customer service from Samsung, Motorola, and Comcast is an understatement. It was turning violent by the end with some of those guys. No one could give a definate answer about anything or any sort of dates to when things were going to be fixed.

There is absolutely no way Comcast can blame my TV, since the TV is years newer than the box.

disneyjoe7

Ok sad but I think the Samsung didn't follow HDMI spec's 100%. I say return the TV or if you can have the cable box fixed. On second thought does the Samsung TV work with any HDMI feed can the TV be a problem?

doug lang

Hey i just called comcast. First of all they are aware of the problem. They play a little dumb at first, but do admit hdmi to a 1.3 ain't gonna work. They asked for me to up grade at five more bucks for a dvr. Well i already pay 150.00. Don't need a dvr. They have no idea when this will be fixed. I also called for my hd network stations, they are still down. I got a 5.00 credit for that, Big deal.
For now the composite cables will work fine.