Trouble with Pre-Amp; Nad 712

AndyGwis
AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
edited January 2007 in Electronics
Hey Guys,

I had my first sour ebay experience in about 30 transactions. I needed a preamp with built in tuner and remote; found a Nad 712 locally with preouts, remote capability, tuner for a very good price (so I thought).

When plugged in and turned on and in standby mode "mute" flashes on the led screen and once turned on, none of the functions work. The volume knob lights up, the function buttons appear to work, etc., but there is no sound output, the led is dim to the point of barely readable unless a couple inches away, etc.

I contacted the seller; it doesn't appear he is able to do much. This is a stereo receiver with pre-outs, not a true preamp. . . he told me to ship both the receiver/preamp so he could test it out. . . so he doesn't even realize it can provide it's own power and doesn't need the amp at all to function.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I would think it's just stuck in "mute" mode, but the fact that "mute" flashes when it's in standby mode let's me think it's more than that. Once turned on, mute is no longer on the led.


Andy
Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
Post edited by AndyGwis on
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited January 2007
    AndyGwis wrote:
    Hey Guys,

    I had my first sour ebay experience in about 30 transactions. I needed a preamp with built in tuner and remote; found a Nad 712 locally with preouts, remote capability, tuner and a matching 214 amp for a very good price (so I thought).

    Turns out the amp is a little nicked up, and the preamp doesn't work. When plugged in and turned on and in standby mode "mute" flashes on the led screen and once turned on, none of the functions work. The volume knob lights up, the function buttons appear to work, etc., but there is no sound output, the led is dim to the point of barely readable unless a couple inches away, etc.

    I contacted the seller; it doesn't appear he is able to do much. This is a stereo receiver with pre-outs, not a true preamp. . . he told me to ship both the amp and receiver/preamp so he could test it out. . . so he doesn't even realize it can provide it's own power and doesn't need the amp at all to function.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. I would think it's just stuck in "mute" mode, but the fact that "mute" flashes when it's in standby mode let's me think it's more than that. Once turned on, mute is no longer on the led.


    Andy

    Sounds like it took a shot in transit. If you feel frisky, open the top and look for a loose connector. Had a problem like that with a the Rotel pre.

    I sent you a pm if you'd like to try my Nad 917. :D
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    I opened the top (and bottom). Didn't see any loose connections, caps, transistors, whatever else is in there. Internal fuses look okay, too. Solder on the bottom side all looked really good, too.

    Maybe mute is just "on," but I don't have a remote to turn it off. Is that even possible? Anyone else got a NAD 712 and seen a flashing "mute" when in stanby-mode?

    Thanks for any help you guys can offer.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited January 2007
    This is going to sound really obvious, but is there a reset button anywhere on it? I had a ton of problems when I got my Sunfire pre used, so I reset it. It worked great after that. Maybe he had it set up in some insane way, or he did some sort of video-game code of buttons on it and it became this way. thought I would throw this out there.
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited January 2007
    Doesn't sound normal. To go over a couple of basics, tape monitor is off, and you are using the pre out rather than the nad link connectors, correct?

    You could try putting the pre-out/power in jumpers back in and trying just
    the receiver. Try a set of headphones in the headphone jack to make sure it's working at all.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    I've contacted nad to see if they had any ideas. Been a day, no answer from them.

    I'll check for a reset button somewhere. I put rca's from preouts to main ins, no sound output using it in receiver mode.

    I'll get some headphones on it and see if I get output. I don't think it's working at all. Hope there is a reset. I'll check the manual again.

    Thanks.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited January 2007
    Yeah, that little button saved me a lot of butt pain.
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited January 2007
    Maybe it's time to cut your losses. The seller sounds like a real prize.
    Local in Dallas, and he want's you to ship it back?????

    Maybe it's time to go new. A new 100 wpc Rotel rx-1052 2 channel receiver would get the job done. Phono too! List price $900
    I think Audio Concepts still has these. I believe it has been discontinued.
    (Better pricing:D ) It would be compact, remote friendly and have a phono input.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited January 2007
    I would get it repaired, then go across town and beat the cost out of him.
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited January 2007
    Heres a link to the manual for the 712 from NADs website.

    Is this the one?
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    Yeah, read it. . . not much in there.

    Thanks. This guy is crazy. Oh well, I guess worst case is I'm out the pre and getting my first negative feedback for a transaction I got screwed on. Not that bad, in the grand scheme of things.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • Polk65
    Polk65 Posts: 1,405
    edited January 2007
    "Bad regulators in the power supply or the capacitors in the power supply are drying up"
    http://www.fixya.com/support/t116281-no_sound ;)

    Contact the shop Danger Boy found and see what they have to say.
    http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited January 2007
    Polk65 wrote:
    "Bad regulators in the power supply or the capacitors in the power supply are drying up"
    http://www.fixya.com/support/t116281-no_sound ;)

    Contact the shop Danger Boy found and see what they have to say.
    http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm

    With shipping there and back, plus repair, more than the value of the pre.
    Good hints, though.
    Can you get your money plus shipping back from the seller, or are you gonna eat the shipping cost one or both ways?

    If you have to eat a negative feedback, at least get your $$$ back.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • Polk65
    Polk65 Posts: 1,405
    edited January 2007
    Eff shipping, he should just toss it through the bozo's front window.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited January 2007
    go beat the snot out of him.. if he's local. i'd be all over his ****.. (hey no smirks here) in a heartbeat.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Polk65
    Polk65 Posts: 1,405
    edited January 2007
    He is yocal but I would try and work with this bozo. Tell him you are pissed that it doesn't work as advertised and that he charged excessive shipping.
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-shipping.html

    "USED NAD STEREO RECEIVER MODEL 712 AND AMPLIFIER MODEL 214 IN GREAT WORKING CONDITIONTHIS UNIT IS A VERY POWERFULL SYSTEM GREAT FOR SURROUND SOUND HAS BEEN TESTED THIS UNIT IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION IT THE AMPLIFIER IS VERY HEAVY DON'T MISS THIS GREAT BUY YOU WILL BE AMAZED OF THE SOUND THAT COMES FROM THIS SYSTEM" Sorry for the caps, that's a cut & paste from the auction.

    His feedback isn't all that bad so ask him if he will refund the shipping difference and cover the cost of repairs. Get an estimate, send him a copy and have him pay the estimate before you get the work done.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    Yeah, all good ideas. I found that Fixya site earlier and posted my question there. Hard to believe the caps dried up, but I guess that could be the case.

    I'm pushing for a refund with this dude. I'm going to drop both pieces back off to him and tell him not to send them back unless they're working properly. I will be going through the ebay motions and filing his wrong-doings if he can't offer a refund.

    Either way, I'll make sure this guy gets some bad feedback from list ordeal, even if it means I take some as well.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited January 2007
    If you file through ebay or Paypal, they will ask for proof that you returned the item, in the form of online tracking. That is all they accept. If you deliver it, you will have no way to prove you returned it.

    I hope you paid with a credit card.
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    I paid with paypal. I will have the guy sign something saying he accepted the return, if personal delivery is the way I go with it. Thanks for the heads up, tho.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,782
    edited January 2007
    I know you paid with Paypal, but did you use a credit card?

    And like I said, PayPal ONLY accepts online tracking as proof of delivery, no other method.

    Good luck.
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,606
    edited January 2007
    So, what happened? Inquiring minds want to know.:confused:
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    Well, I went to return it over my lunch yesterday. It was a terribly shady part of town, one of the few Dallas areas I wouldn't want to be walking around at night.

    I sat outside contemplating if I really wanted to knock on his shanty and have what could be a heated conversation, but decided to knock on the door anyway. No answer, kind of relieved.

    I ended up shipping him both pieces back today via UPS so I'd have tracking info (per WilliamMs advice). I emailed and told him if he couldn't get the pre to work I wanted a full refund. At the very least, a 50% refund and have him ship the amp back on his dime.

    Even though the stuff was roughed up and pre didn't work, I couldn't put it back in the crap box he used. So, I took about 20 minutes to repack in a sturdy box I had. . . but I put in enough foam peanuts and microscopic styrofoam pieces to cause him a big mess when he opens it.

    We'll see how it goes. At worst, I'll file a complaint and get money back from him via ebay. At best, I get a full refund and am out close to $100 on shipping, overall, but I might get with ebay to recoup some of that as well.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,904
    edited January 2007
    with him being local for the amount of money you are still spending i would have gone the small claims court route.
    do you have a link to to the ebay add?
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    He did have it listed as $65 for shipping, but I assumed that would be negotiable for local pickup. I even offered him $20 pickup-fee if he'd let me just come get it.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    From the looks of the neighborhood I was in yesterday to drop it off, I'd rather just be done dealing with this guy. Definitely not worth taking him to court over $100, I'd spend that much on a kevlar jacket if I did file a claim.

    Looks like a great deal when you're on ebay cruising around. . . good amp and pre for $237 local. . . "no brainer" at least that's what I was thinking.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,904
    edited January 2007
    being local i would have asked to come by and listen and look at the amp before i bidded and if he refused no bid here.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited January 2007
    Well, I took a chance. More or less an impulse buy since it was good gear at a great price.

    If it were something higher end or something I really wanted for myself, I would've been more prudent and gone through the FM here or Audiogon.

    This was just going to be played with for a while and then passed along.
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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