Matching amps and bi-amping

nascarmann
nascarmann Posts: 1,464
edited August 2002 in Electronics
I have been thinking about what amps to use to bi-amp my speakers. I have be told to use 2 amps with the same specs or WPC. My thoughts are that the upper side of the speaker shouldn't use or pull the power that the bottom end will. So, would it not be better to use a 250wpc amp for the bottom and use a 200wpc amps for the upper end. Now, the 200wpc amp does not have near the 4 and 2ohm power increase like the 250, but will it really need it to drive the tweeters? Maybe I'm not thinking right or there is something I'm overlooking here. This would free up a 250wpc amp for other use. Any thought or advice...... :confused:
Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited August 2002
    And I quote "a smaller ampilier may be used as long as it has excellent dynamic headroom."
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    It says that for the top end....
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited August 2002
    Correctomondo
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Thanks and good night....
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,592
    edited August 2002
    See ya tomorrow...
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited August 2002
    I have been reading alot of thinking on bi amping in here,
    At what point to do feel this is nessary?
    I never even consider this to be an upgrade.Id rather buy a better amp.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    mantis.....why do you bi-wire? Would the theory not apply the same to bi-amping as it does to bi-wiring? I'm sure one of my M-80 would push the 2.3's....but do you not think 500wpc would be better than 250wpc. And the bi-wire-bi-amp theory applied as well? Help me out here.....bi-wire a powered tower but do not bi-amp an SDA speakers that is rated to handle 750wpc? OK....is see....:confused:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    Would the theory not apply the same to bi-amping as it does to bi-wiring? I'm sure one of my M-80 would push the 2.3's....but do you not think 500wpc would be better than 250wpc.
    Mantis is saying he wouldn't bi-amp with two 250W amps. Instead, he would use a single 500W amp. The best way would be to use four amps, but that's not too terribly affordable. I think I would rather vertically bi-amp (one amp per speaker) than horizontally bi-amp (one amp for the lows and one for the highs).

    Aaron
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Aaron....that was my thinking on it. I think I will try it both ways and see what works best....or what I think works best? May also try one of the M-80's for the bottom and one of the M-70 for the top....I know now to vertically bi-amp I will need the AI-1.....
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    If you are using two different amps, like your M-70 and M-80, then I wouldn't vertically bi-amp.

    Aaron
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Duuuuuhhhh.....:rolleyes:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited August 2002
    Aarons reply is close to what I was getting at.Bi amping is just a step in my world I don't run across nor thought about.Thats why I asked...i'M not knocking it..just want to know why......
    like I said ...ok,
    If I had a Adcom amp and thought I needed better sound ,I would buy a better sounding amp to me upgrade..I wouldn't add another Adcom to seperate the highs and lows.
    Is the power thing is why you want to use 2 amps to drive one speakers??Or are you trying to improve the sound quality?Or both?
    is 700 watts needed to make your speakers sound there best?
    Do you think a better sounding not more powerfull amp would Improve the sound?
    Help me out ..better yeat post your findings..Id like to hear what you came up with ..........Table muscle dude................
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    If I had a Adcom amp and thought I needed better sound ,I would buy a better sounding amp to me upgrade..I wouldn't add another Adcom to seperate the highs and lows.
    Agreed.
    Is the power thing is why you want to use 2 amps to drive one speakers??
    Doubtful. There aren't too many speakers that truly require this much power. I suppose the SDA's would be one of them, though.
    Or are you trying to improve the sound quality?
    Moving from a single amp to a bi-amp setup should always improve your sound. To what degree, well, that's anyone's guess.
    Do you think a better sounding not more powerfull amp would Improve the sound?
    It could, but not necessarily. This largely depends upon your speakers, and secondarily your listening habits.

    Aaron
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited August 2002
    I have a question... If the SPL on all channels are set up equal then what is the difference if each speaker is driven by different Amps
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited August 2002
    I have a question... If the SPL on all channels are set up equal then what is the difference if each speaker is driven by different Amps
    Do you mean different types/brands of amps? If so, each amp has a different sound to it. Mixing and matching isn't a good thing.

    Aaron
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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited August 2002
    As long as your two amps have equal gain settings you'll be fine. Some amps even have gain adjustments on the front panel. I would highly recommend same manufacturer amps for potential voicing problems. 200-250 watts is about the minimum I would use for these big SDA's. They would just LOVE to be fed by a pair of monos. They really like to be pushed. It benefits at lower volume settings as well as louder. I ran my SRS's for about 9 years with a pair of 150 watt Adcoms. (top to bottom bi-amp) They sounded nice but I could tell they needed something else. After switching to the bridged Carvers, it was almost like getting new speakers, almost. Dynamics, impact, detail were all enhanced.

    Stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited August 2002
    Hbombtoo,
    Your question is a good one.
    mixing and matching amps even set at the same exact SPL, will still react differently under the same signal.Like if you have a Adcom gfa series and a B&K ref series...both have the same or close to the same power rating......you meter the system using these 2 amps....then run a scene with lots of different Dynamic levels..and then the 2 different amps hit different SPL'S.Remember Test tone is not Dynamic range...this varies from amp to amp.
    Not to mention you have a different sonic signature.Meaning different sounding amps.
    I don't perfer to do this.........I'm not sure why other's want to mix and match.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    stubby

    With the coins I have and the amps I already own.......I will need to set this up the best I can......Yeah....in a perfect world I would love to buy some "big buck" mono blocks but.....................
    Id like to hear what you came up with ..........Table muscle dude................

    mantis.....I would love for you and I to meet face to face.....:D
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited August 2002
    I hear ya on the coinage situation. Like I said, I ran mine for several years before I upgraded. At least you already have an AI-1 to use if you decide to go with monos. I'm sure you will still get many hours of happy listening with your existing setup.

    Stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited August 2002
    Bi-amping is best left to speaker designed for it. Most people that bi-amp do it with the intent of using very different amps to better curtail speakers with their amps. Most notably among 2-way nuts with compression-horn tops and conventional bottoms. Even with dome or cone tweeters, they are smaller and lighter and therefore need less power. Low watt tubes to the top and high power SS to the bottoms. This being connected with an acive cross-over between the pre-amp and each amp.

    Then there's passive bi-amping which is best served by identical amps.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,197
    edited August 2002
    Nascarman,
    I have only met with one person excluding Polk person's,Aaron is the only one I met face to face.
    Why would you possibly want to meet me?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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