New TT setup

jm1

All the LPs were packed away prior to the move to this house about 10 years ago. Most LPs are still in storage and will be retrieved once a safe resting location is found for them.
All the pieces of the puzzle have finally arrived and the initial TT installation is complete. After shopping around, I decided on the following:

• VPI Scout TT
• Dynavector 10x5 cartridge
• PS Audio GCPH phono stage
• Harmonic Technology 1M Truthlink RCA IC (TT to phono stage)
• Harmonic Technology 3M Truthlink balanced IC (phono stage to preamp)
• solid oak end table spiked to concrete floor

I have CD versions (personal or library) of several of the LPs I unpacked at this time. Having both media types of the same recording has allowed me to compare the vinyl and digital sources while both are concurrently playing.

I called several local retailers to inquire about LP cleaning machines. One retailer told me to bring some LPs to clean on a VPI-17. I brought along one LP purchased used and several purchased new. He said my new purchased LPs did not need any cleaning as I have only played them less than five times, but I had him clean one anyway.

While there, I also had a chance to listen to:

• VPI HXR TT
• Clearaudio Titanium cartridge
• Aesthetix Io phono stage
• Ayre Acoustics digital player
• Ayre Acoustics pre/power amps
• JBL Project Array 1400 ARRAY BG speakers
• Acoustic Zen cables

This was the first time I have been able to listen to a high end TT source for more years than I care to mention. I brought along several CDs of the LPs and compared the vinyl to the digital sources. The HXR LP clamping mechanism is fantastic; it ensures the record is flat on the table. All TTs should have this type of record clamping mechanism. This alone might be a reason to upgrade to the Scoutmaster.


Overall, I will not say one format is better than the other. Both have shortcomings where the other may have merits. I did find it interesting that the retailer’s vinyl system was able to retrieve more low level information from the LP than was present on the CD. Switching between both sources during playback identified this. I had heard of this before, but it is interesting to actually experience this. Maybe one day we will get a high resolution media format which will combine the best of both.

After playing both media on my system, I would have to give the advantage to the digital source at this time. The vinyl source sounds very good and I am ‘content’ with the sonic characteristics. I still prefer the Museatex DAC over what I am hearing with vinyl. Digital playback with the DAC does not exhibit any of the harsh characteristics common of digital sources. The output is natural and dynamic. In direct comparisons, I find vinyl to have too much warmth and not enough dynamic range. Is this a setup issue? I do not know at this time as vinyl has only recently been reintroduced. More time needs to be dedicated to optimizing vinyl.

In the next couple of weeks, I should be getting a VPI-16.5 record cleaner. I am very impressed with wet cleaning. The used LP I had cleaned sonically sounds much better than the previous time it was played. Wet cleaning should also preserve my current collection for many years of future enjoyment.

Later in the year, I may experiment with different cartridges. I discovered that an ex coworker’s significant other has a VPI Scout and uses a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge. I have invited them over for a visit and encouraged him to bring his tonearm (VPI tonearms can be swapped in a matter of seconds) so we can compare cartridges.

And so another journey begins.


JM

BlueMDPicker

Very, very nice!

Enjoy!

szhleppy

Very nice! Great idea to start off the right way so you can spend time enjoying it.

cmy330go

Great setup! Enjoy!

DAGLJAM6

Nice TT, Don't you love how easy it is to set up that tonearm/cartridge?
I've had mine for the better part of a year and really enjoy it. Congrats.

cstpeter

Nice setup, great post. And damn, way to get back into vinyl in style. I envy you.

What record you gonna throw on first? I recommend Steely Dan Gaucho. EDIT: I see you already set it up and did much listening, my bad. I'm not that strong of a reader.

Wanna hear more about the PS Audio phono. I'm in love with their stuff right now.

Enjoy.

jm1

Thank you for the kind words. A lot of effort has gone into initially selecting the components. Locally, there is not much you can physically try as most needs to be specially ordered.

I played some songs from several LPs and concurrently played ‘Synchronicity’ by The Police. I found the sonic characteristics of the two sources to be more closely matched than in my previous comparison. This has renewed my interest in the capabilities of vinyl.

One issue requiring immediate attention is the image is shifted towards the right of center. The next step will be to fine tune the TT installation.

DAGLJAM6,

The VPIs are great but I am still not accustomed to the unipivot tonearm. Every time I cue an LP, I wonder if I will hit the lead-in groves. I think I am getting better at this now.

cstpeter,

For now, I will reserve comment directly on the GCPH until I have had a chance to try some other cartridges. I believe there are comments on this site regarding this unit and there is a review of the modded version at 10Audio.

hearingimpared

You just made my day well er ah night. I love when a good vinyl front end comes together and you sure put one together. I am a few days away from getting my analog rig going. I also have a VPI 16.5. I have lots of experience with wet cleaning. I recommend you get a preservative like LAST2 that will treat your vinyl also. This stuff, and I don't remember all the technical talk on it, preserves the vinyl plus it makes it more plyable to the stylus thus reducing record wear as well as stylus wear.

Since I haven't heard my TT rig vs my digital front end I'll reserve any comments about as to whether the two can compete or whether vinyl still kicks the daylights out of CDs. On thing is for certain, you were right about the low level detail.

cmy330go

jm1 wrote:

....I played some songs from several LPs and concurrently played ‘Synchronicity’ by The Police.....

That album is a must have for anyone that is into vinyl.

reeltrouble1

I agree with using both formats, certainly I have my all vinyl days, then the next time it may be all digital, congrats on the TT setup, she looks sweet and has it going on.

Excellent write up, looks like Club Polk has another winner jm1.

RT1

TroyD

Looking good!

BDT

Fireman32

Congrats on the rig. I got my rig up and running and now im hook on vinyl. Let us know what you think of the cleaner as I need to purchase one myself.

jm1

After having several of my records cleaned on a VPI HW-17 by the local retailer, I decided to purchase a record cleaning machine for my personal use. In the past, I had recorded most of my albums to cassette using dbx type II NR (dbx 224x external noise reduction unit). At this time, I do not have the cassette player connected to the two channel system so I will be playing the source instead of the backup media. One day when I have the rack space, I may resurrect the cassette source and tapes from storage.

I put my name down for one new VPI HW-16.5 units arriving in his next shipment. And so began the wait.

I took this time to research various cleaning fluids. While looking on CP, I came across a thread created by our kind benefactor and local TT guru, Kenneth Swauger, regarding a record cleaning fluid. Ken was kind enough to provide the recipe for this fluid via email and a potential source for the ingredients. After conducting some research on procuring the ingredients, I came across the source of the recipe. It looks like the recipe was created by the National Library of Canada in 1997. There is a web page devoted to the care of media.

I ordered a quart of each ingredient from Talas as I was not able to readily find any other source in quantities less than a 50 gallon drum. The ingredients arrived shortly after ordering. Two tablespoons of each ingredient are added to one gallon of distilled water. And so the wait continued.

The local retailer finally received the shipment of VPI HW-16.5 record cleaning machines. At this time, I also purchased 50 new inner sleeves for cleaned records.

I have been procrastinating on purchasing additional supplies, but now I need to source some inner sleeves, a MF record brush with extra pads and a couple of carbon fiber brushes from an online source for future wet cleaning. I believe I will use Sleeve City as the source for this purchase.

I cleaned four records over the weekend. One side was cleaned using the enclosed VPI cleaning fluid and the other side was using the in house created cleaning fluid. I now plan to listen to both sides of the records to determine if there are any differences in the sonic characteristics.


Overall, I am impressed with the VPI cleaning machine. The platter is solid and provides a sturdy surface to clean the records. The platter motor has enough torque to spin the platter when vacuuming the fluids from the record surface. The vacuum also has enough suction to remove the fluids by the completion of the second revolution. Removal of the used cleaning fluids is accomplished by simply unclamping the attached hose and draining the fluid into a container. My only complaint is that the hose does not reach the floor from a table top.

I have only used the included VPI record brush. My only comment at this time is that the brush bristles appear to be too thick to reach deep into the record grove. But I may be wrong in this observation. I was planning to use a carbon fiber brush to reach deep into the groves so this point may be moot.

Anyways, the 16.5 is a welcome addition to supplement the care of my media. Now the fun begins to rediscover the music of my previous life that has been quiet for far too long.


I think my next move will be to get a better cartridge for the table. The leading candidates are a Shelter 901 or the new Shelter 5000 as I have been told the retailer these mate well with the table.

EDIT

Tergitol

pblanc

I have a VPI Scout and a Dynavector 10x5 as well, although currently my table is fitted with an NOS Adcom high output mc cart, which I think I like a little better. I like the table and cartridge quite a bit. My Scout is fitted with a Rega RB 300 arm instead of the JWM tonearm.

My observation is that vinyl gives up nothing to digital in terms of frequency response, and usually vinyl wins. LPs certainly don't have the theoretical dynamic range of CDs (maybe 70 db for vinyl as opposed to 96 db for conventional CD, but it seems that so many CDs are so indifferently recorded and mastered that the potential dynamic range is seldom approached. Of course, for many the biggest drawback for vinyl is the S/N ratio where vinyl tends to loose due to surface noise. Obviously, this will depend a lot on the condition of your LPs and how you treat them. Some folks seem to be able to "filter out" the surface noise, and some just can't.

If you channels are unbalanced, and you haven't already done so, check the azimuth on your stylus. Remember, it may look like the cartridge body is square to the platter surface, but there may be a few degrees of rotation between the stylus itself and the cart body. Obviously, to see this you are gonna need either some very good eyes or some type of optical magnification.
If the azimuth looks OK and you haven't already done so, disconnect and reconnect the headshell leads to your cartridge to make sure they are all making good contact. If channels still unbalanced, try adjusting the "anti-skate". Since the JMW arm has no antiskate mechanism, this invoves putting a twist in the leads that connect the arm to the juncion box so as to put some "unwinding force" on the arm directed towards the outer platter edge. If still no better, try another cartridge. (I'm assuming you have alreaady tried reversing the interconnects).

I'm not going to argue with absolute certainty that vinyl is better than digital, or vice verse, but I am going to argue with absolute certainty that anybody who considers themselves a "serious listener" (whatever the hell that is) who has not given vinyl a try, damn sure should. And you do not need to invest a boat load of money up front.

hearingimpared

pblanc wrote:

I'm not going to argue with absolute certainty that vinyl is better than digital, or vice verse, but I am going to argue with absolute certainty that anybody who considers themselves a "serious listener" (whatever the hell that is) who has not given vinyl a try, damn sure should. And you do not need to invest a boat load of money up front.

This is a great thread. I have only listened to about a dozen or so LPs since I got me rig going. I am a vinyl junkie, always was, always will be. When I heard my first record Sunday night for the first time in almost twenty years I was right back to my Vinyl kicks the daylights out of redbook CDs attitude, please let me explain a little. I have five versions of the classic Jazz at the Pawnshop, the double LP on 180gm, the double LP on regular vinyl, the double CD set, the double SACD/CD/etc and the CDs Vol 1, 2 & 3. I am very very familiar with every cut of these awesome recordings.

Sunday night, I listened to the double LP 180gm version first. I then listened to the double CD set, and then the LP version again, and then the SACD. All on three different front ends, more on that later. The comparision was done specifically with the cut "Lady Be Good."

I'm not going to go into details here because I am going to start a separate review thread on this including equipment but I can say without reservation the LPs sounded more real, more live, more musical, more detail, more information and more emotion then the CD. The CDs didn't hold a candle. Now as far as the SACD. . .that is a different story all-together. The SACD sounded different I won't say better or worse just different.

That's all for now folks. . .Back to you JM and thanks for starting this thread!!! BTW the VPI 16.5 is definetely a winner and a keeper.

treitz3

jm1 wrote:

I did find it interesting that the retailer’s vinyl system was able to retrieve more low level information from the LP than was present on the CD. Switching between both sources during playback identified this. I had heard of this before, but it is interesting to actually experience this. Maybe one day we will get a high resolution media format which will combine the best of both.

My observences agree with you on this. SACD is the closest to vinyl yet, but I do agree that the low end is a little bit more natural [accurate]. IMHO.

hearingimpared

treitz3 wrote:

My observences agree with you on this. SACD is the closest to vinyl yet, but I do agree that the low end is a little bit more natural [accurate]. IMHO.

Welcome to Club Polk treitz3, I like your way of thinking or rather hearing.:D

haimoc

Jm, very nice writing about TT and beautiful setup. One day, I would get a nice TT. I feel it is too much work to collect all parts of a TT to put them together (table, catridge, etc..).

hearingimpared , I am looking forward to your coming review on TT.

pblanc

If you don't want to take the trouble to assemble and set up a turntable, why not just buy a decent, used turntable that someone has alreagy set it up? All you would need then would be a phono stage on your Pre/Pro or receiver, or if you didn't have one, you could buy an inexpensive phono preamp for about $50. If you "got into it" you would probably want to upgrade at some point, but the initial cost can be fairly modest. I just don't understand why owning a turntable is perceived to require such great effort. Of course, then again, I grew up with turntables in the 1960's

Wardsweb

Congratulations on your latest setup. Vinyl is a doulble edged sword for sure. It can bring audio bliss and can at times raise your blood pressure from setup issues, a dropped stylus, and the never ending pursuit of nirvana. I love vinyl and recommend if you ever get the chance to listen to or buy the B&W (BOWERS & WILKINS) Very Audiophile New Recordings, do yourself a favor and do. I have the 180g vinyl but it is also available on SACD. Sara K. singing Turn My Upside Down has the most incredible imaging of any album I've ever heard. This direct metal master vinyl is some of the best produced. Not only sonically but it plays quiet right out of the sleeve. This is now my demo album for when people come over.



By the way I run a Clearaudio Champion II table fitted with a SME 309 arm and Benz Micro Glider. For cleaning, I have a SOTA.

miner

After a 24 yrs absence, I, too have rediscovered vinyl. At first my wife thought I was nuts, but then she listened in concentration and has now been converted. My newest rig consists of a Rega P5, TTPSU & Exact2 cartridge. I have yet to get a RCM but currently use an Orbitrac2, Mobile Fidelity brushes, carbon fiber brush and a DIY solution (4 parts distilled water, 1 part 91% isopropyl alchohol and 2 drops of ivory soap (1/2 gallon solution) alond with a ZeroDust stylus cleaner.

pblanc

And who said wives don't know nuttin 'bout audio?

jm1

The other week I finally received a stylus gauge. Until this point, I was somewhat hesitant adjusting the tonearm. I made some adjustments to the azimuth of the cartridge to correct the center image between the speakers. This was better than before, but I was still a little disappointed in the final result.

Over the weekend, I decided to take the TT off the stand and start afresh. The stand was leveled using the spikes I installed on the bottom of the legs. The TT feet were then adjusted so that each leg had the same tension on the isolation material. The TT was then placed on the stand and the feet where then adjusted less than 1/8 of a turn to accommodate stand top variances to remove any rocking motion of the plinth. This time to level the platter, I adjusted the stand’s spikes instead of adjusting the TT’s feet. The tonearm’s azimuth and tracking force where once again adjusted.

I played some records I had listened to prior to the latest round of adjustments. I am not sure how objective this is, but I found the overall result to be much better than prior experiences. There was more texture and detail to notes being played; the separation of note improved as did the ‘air’ around them. The frequency extremes were also extended to what I had expected from the TT and phono stage of this level.

These changes to the tonal characteristics drew me into the music as if I was listening to a good digital recording. Yes, I will say this within the same text describing a vinyl source. The Museatex Bitstream DAC with the Moray James digital IC is very natural sounding. So much so, I have defaulted the Pioneer DV-59 transport to retrieve the CD layer of SACD discs and no longer specifically look for SACD versions.

I also listened to several of the records I recently cleaned using the RCM. Without a doubt, I am now totally convinced of the benefits of wet cleaning records. This was money very well spent. I was so involved with the music that I did not want to compare the cleaning fluids as per my prior post.

Just before the holiday season, I purchased about 30 records locally. These records were played on a very high end system and were cleaned with a RCM. One title I had not listened to was the ‘Talking Heads’, ‘Stop Making Sense’. This particular album is a UK pressing of better than standard quality. It was fantastic; no noise and very good dynamics. What a great experience that was.

The other week, I found about 190 70’s - 80’s albums in mint condition for $150; no dust, finger prints, scratches etc. After quickly flipping through albums (they were in a garage on a very cold weekend), I noticed I did not come across any in my collection. Once at home I found there were only about four duplicates. I also discovered the albums were not stored properly and have a warp the clamp can not remove. I did verify the records are in excellent condition with the exception of the warp. I am now looking at the VPI periphery ring clamp for the TT. So I do not get any replies to this, IT WILL WORK on the Scout platter and my thoughts were confirmed by VPI. I will post the method at a later date if I decide to proceed with this. Who knows, this may be stepping stone to a Scoutmaster. Maybe an upgrade to the signature arm for the current TT. Maybe …

In hindsight, I should have purchased the 1100 records someone had for sale for $150 this past October. At that time I was not convinced I would be an active collector in the future. This will not happen again. The TT will be an active part of my listening pleasure. I now need to purchase new inner sleeves and clean all those albums.

hearingimpared

Do yourself a favor and purchase Vinyl-Zyme Gold. I have used this Bug Juice first on all my records even ones that were not damaged in a flood. This stuff is amazing. It eats the crap that grows in the grooves over time. If you had your collection in storage for ten years this product is a must.

One 2 oz. bottle makes four gallons of solution or one gallon of extra strength. This is more than you'll ever use unless of course you are like me and use it on every LP. When I am cleaning a record that has been in storage, I use this first then MFSL super deep cleaning fluid, then MFSL record wash, I finish with VPI record cleaning fluid. If I am just cleaning a record that has been sitting around a while, I use the Bug Juice then VPI record cleaning fluid. I am waiting on my order of LAST 2. This is a record preservative. I have used the original product called LAST and it worked very well.

Although I believe MFSL Super Deep cleaning fluid MAY disolve and clean off the mold release compounds used by record manufacturers to ease removal of the record from the stamper, it is written no where on the MFSL bottle that is does do this job. There was a product years ago that did make this claim and it was called FIRST but was taken off the market because it wasn't evironmentally save. . . cut me a break this stuff worked really well. I am currently researching that type of product.

I am intreged by this thread and hope we can keep it alive.

I you want a real vinyl treat, get a hold of the Pink Floyd best of called "Echos." It is a four LP set that is extremely well done. It is so quiet that if I hadn't cued it up myself I wouldn't have thought it an LP. I was listening to this about 1:00AM this morning and had the volume set to 12:00. It is a magnificent LP set.

hearingimpared

One other thing I wanted to run by you. If you have a VTA (vertical tracking angle) adjustment, try setting your the back of your tone arm a few degrees lower than your stylus. I've found that most cutting lathes are set with the arm lower than the cutter. With most LPs everything, image, detail, depth of image snap into focus when it is set lower. It is true for most but not all. I have a record that I use to test the VTA. The only problem is that it tests the VTA for that test record, but it does enable you to recognize the sound improvement when the VTA is set right everything snaps into focus.

Beware though . . . you can go crazy trying to set it right for every LP, that is why I leave the back part of the tonearm lower than the stylus as all times.

jm1

I have been thinking of upgrading the cartridge on the TT.

I have been looking around as best as I can for something which would be for long term use. There are several that have caught my attention lately:

- Shelter 901
- Shelter 5000 (direct replacement for the 901)
- ZYX R-100FXH (Fuji, 6N single crystal copper, high output)
- Sumiko Blackbird
- upgrade to a higher model in the Dynavector line

Does anyone have any experience with these lines and the particular noted models? I would be interested in your impressions.

Thanks.

hearingimpared

jm1 wrote:

I have been thinking of upgrading the cartridge on the TT.

I have been looking around as best as I can for something which would be for long term use. There are several that have caught my attention lately:

- Shelter 901
- Shelter 5000 (direct replacement for the 901)
- ZYX R-100FXH (Fuji, 6N single crystal copper, high output)
- Sumiko Blackbird
- upgrade to a higher model in the Dynavector line

Does anyone have any experience with these lines and the particular noted models? I would be interested in your impressions.

Thanks.

I have a Dynavector 10 x 5 and after about 20 hours of break in, this cartridge is all it has been made out to be and more. I love the detail and it tracks like no other cartridge I've ever seen plus compared to the other cartridges listed above the price is less than one-third. I was thinking about the Sumiko Blackbird and the Bluebird Special. I just went with the 10 x 5 and have never looked back. I acutally got it for $80 less than the prices on the big websites. It is a perfect match for my SME V tonearm and that is an important factor here. Here is an article on how to determine if a cartridge matches up to a tone arm.

Let us know how you make out.

jm1

Thanks for the reply, I have the Dynavector 10x5 with about 20 hours of use. For the price, it has been a great choice. Highly recommended. Just thinking for the future enjoyment.

hearingimpared

jm1 wrote:

Thanks for the reply, I have the Dynavector 10x5 with about 20 hours of use. For the price, it has been a great choice. Highly recommended. Just thinking for the future enjoyment.

I try not to do that. . . it gets me into financial trouble LOL.

Really though, when you do decide and get a better cartridge please do us the honor of a write up.

jm1

Will do. It may be sooner than you expect.

hearingimpared

jm1 wrote:

Will do. It may be sooner than you expect.

Green with envy HAPPY HUNTING BRO!