DVD-A and SACD

jakelm

OK...From reading on the difference in SACD and DVD-A , everyone seems to prefer DVD-A.

When playing a regular CD, my H/k displays 44.1k, this is the sample rate. When playing a DVD-A or SACD, will the sample rate read differently?

My H/k has a setting where I can upconvert the sample rate from 44.1 to 96. Is this the same thing?

Also I have read that the best way to listen to DVD-A and SACD is through 5 or 6 channel analog. My Denon 1910 has no 5 or 6 chnl analog. Will I find a similar experience through digital? I'm assuming yes..especially if DD or DTS is used. But not all DVD-A and SACD's have DD or DTS, but have a higher sampling rate. Will the higher sampling rate be heard over a digtal connection or just analog?

Jake

jakelm

And now XRCD...

F1nut

1. Most people I know prefer SACD over DVD-A.
2. DVD-A's sampling rates vary from disc to disc, no guarantee that it will be hi-rez. SACD will always be hi-rez with a sampling rate around 2.82 mHz.
3. No, that is called upsampling, not the same thing.
4. The best way to enjoy hi-rez is 2 channel. SACD will never have DD or DTS, that's a DVD thing only and is not hi-rez.
5. XRCD is a high quailty redbook CD, 2 channel only and you don't need a special player to enjoy it.

shack

F1nut wrote:

5. XRCD is a high quailty redbook CD, 2 channel only and you don't need a special player to enjoy it.

Not to be confused with HDCD which is also a high quality redbook, 2 channel only which DOES require a player with the HDCD encoding capability to get the benefit.

F1nut

shack wrote:

Not to be confused with HDCD which is also a high quality redbook, 2 channel only which DOES require a player with the HDCD encoding capability to get the benefit.

ED Z

jakelm

Well what would I look for in a player that plays DVD-A and SACD? Are there any specs to look for?

Like I posted in the other thread, I found a Pioneer DV-563A for $75 and the Oppo 971 for $140. Those 2 seem kind of cheap, although that is my budget. I already have a Denon for my movies, so I cant pay more than that for just audio. Any recommendations?

Jake

P.S. What is "redbook"?

F1nut

Not trying to rain on your parade, but in that price range I wouldn't expect too much. It might give you a taste of what hi-rez is about, so not much too lose.

FWIW, Denon makes some decent universal players that you can pick up on the used market for a bit more if you wanted to save up.

shack

Specs aren't going to tell you much. What you want is a multiformat DVD player that will decode DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A ...including DVD-Video, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, CD-R, CD-RW, MP3, WMA and JPEG. HDCD is nice to have as well. The two you mentioned should meet your criteria. Since they are multiformat DVD players, buy whichever one you prefer and sell the Denon since you don't need two DVD players in your rig.

shack

jakelm wrote:

P.S. What is "redbook"?

The long definition:

The Red Book is the 1980 document that provides the specifications for the standard compact disc (CD) developed by Sony and Philips. According to legend, the document was in a binder with red covers, originating the tradition for subsequent adaptations of CD specifications to be referred to as variously colored books. The Red Book described the CD's physical specifications, such as the tracks, sector and block layout, coding, and sampling. Sony and Philips referred to the discs as CD-DA (digital audio), defined as a content medium for audio data digitized at 44,100 samples per second (44.1KHz) and in a range of 65,536 possible values (16 bits).

The CD Format

According to Red Book specifications, a standard CD is 120 mm (4.75 inches) in diameter and 1.2 mm (0.05 inches) thick and is composed of a polycarbonate plastic substrate (underlayer - this is the main body of the disc), one or more thin reflective metal (usually aluminum) layers, and a lacquer coating. CDs are divided into a lead-in area, which contains the table of contents (TOC), a program area, which contains the audio data, and a lead-out area, which contains no data. An audio CD can hold up to 74 minutes of recorded sound, and up to 99 separate tracks. Data on a CD-DA is organized into sectors (the smallest possible separately addressable block) of information. The audio information is stored in frames of 1/75 second length. 44,100 16-bit samples per second are stored, and there are two channels (left and right). This gives a sector size of 2,352 bytes per frame, which is the total size of a physical block on a CD.

CD data is not arranged in distinct physical units; data is organized into frames (consisting of 24 bytes of user data, plus synchronization, error correction, and control and display bits) which are intricately interleaved so that damage to the disc will not destroy any single frame, but only small parts of many frames.

The Red Book specifications form the basis for all later CD technologies.

In other words - basic CD.

F1nut

Jake, one of these might be a good place to start.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1172450452

Another in better shape,

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homevdeo&1169872146

snow

jakelm wrote:

Well what would I look for in a player that plays DVD-A and SACD? Are there any specs to look for?

Like I posted in the other thread, I found a Pioneer DV-563A for $75 and the Oppo 971 for $140. Those 2 seem kind of cheap, although that is my budget. I already have a Denon for my movies, so I cant pay more than that for just audio. Any recommendations?

Jake

P.S. What is "redbook"?

what i would do if i was you is buy the oppo 970 versus the 971 the 971 only does dvda not sacd the 970 does them both and a whole lot more. here is a link to the 970. on the right hand side are links to various awards they have won and reviews. http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html REGARDS SNOW

jakelm

The Denon is an upconvert through DVI. The Pioneer doesnt upconvert and the Oppo only upconverts thru HDMI (which I have on my Mit but going to use it for something else). So the Denon stays. The Pioneer, to be honest, I havent really been a big Pioneer fan. I was just wondering, besides the 2 manufactures I mentioned and of corse Denon, in the price range (under $200) what else is there?

Jake

jakelm

Well...now I have something to go on.....Man, the wife is going to kill me. (Another peice of equipment)...ah well

Thanks to all.....a ton of help you all have given me.

Jake

jakelm

One more question. I read on The Lord of the Rings soundtrack DVD-A, that it is recorded in 5.1DD, If I played it in my Denon, with digital connection, will it play back in 5.1DD, or is it only 5.1 through 5 channel analog? I understand that the audio quality will not be as good as 5 chnl analog, but it will still play back as 5.1dd through digital connection , right?

Jake

snow

jakelm wrote:

One more question. I read on The Lord of the Rings soundtrack DVD-A, that it is recorded in 5.1DD, If I played it in my Denon, with digital connection, will it play back in 5.1DD, or is it only 5.1 through 5 channel analog? I understand that the audio quality will not be as good as 5 chnl analog, but it will still play back as 5.1dd through digital connection , right?

Jake

no the sound track that is 5.1DD is dolby digital which you can play through your coaxial digital or toslink output. if there is a dvd audio track.as well that will require analog outs on your source. REGARDS SNOW

jakelm

So the dvd audio track and the 5.1dd track are 2 different tracks. NOT the same track that can be played through either toslink /coax digital AND 5 chnl analog. Thats where I was confused, I thought it was the same audio, just one was having the AVR convert it and the other was having the player convert it, but both were the SAME quality. But that is not the case, I think I understand now.

For example. I thought it was like watching a dd5.1 movie, and switching the AVR to dd stereo. Its still 5.1 but the AVR is taking the 5.1 signal coming from the player and playing it through 2 channels instead of 5. But DVD audio, is a totally seperate track that is selected. Like selecting DTS over DD.

Jake

jakelm

I think I have dain bramage now.

tonyb

Man,I gotta go get some more coffee...to wash down the pills.

danger boy

jakelm wrote:

Well what would I look for in a player that plays DVD-A and SACD? Are there any specs to look for?

Like I posted in the other thread, I found a Pioneer DV-563A for $75 and the Oppo 971 for $140. Those 2 seem kind of cheap, although that is my budget. I already have a Denon for my movies, so I cant pay more than that for just audio. Any recommendations?

Jake

P.S. What is "redbook"?

I use a Pioneer DV-578A that plays both DVD-audio and SACD.. as well as DVD's, CD's. photo viewer..etc. you need one of these. it's cheap.. err inexpensive.. and has worked great for me for about 2 yrs now. no problems at all.

BUT, your receiver needs to have 5.1 analog inputs.. or else you can't hear the hi rez tracks.

danger boy

DVD-audio contains usually.. a 5.1 hi resoultion audio track, a stereo 2 channel hi rez track. and a 5.1 DD track.. which is not considered hi rez.

the hi rez tracks need a player that can decode it thru analog connections.. the DVD 5.1 track can be played on any DVD player.

jakelm

danger boy wrote:

I use a Pioneer DV-578A that plays both DVD-audio and SACD.. as well as DVD's, CD's. photo viewer..etc. you need one of these. it's cheap.. err inexpensive.. and has worked great for me for about 2 yrs now. no problems at all.

BUT, your receiver needs to have 5.1 analog inputs.. or else you can't hear the hi rez tracks.

My H/k 635 accually has 7.1 analog inputs. Any reviews on the DV-563A? Which I believe is the same player just a couple of years older. The reason I ask is I can pick one up on Ebait, for $75.

jakelm

Also , does all DVD-A and sacd players have bass management, or some sort od audio management??

Jake

snow

jakelm wrote:

Also , does all DVD-A and sacd players have bass management, or some sort od audio management??

Jake

there is a test in the shootout that i mentioned earlier from secrets of home theater hi fi of the DV-563A it recieved a score of 67 out of a possible 100 the winner the oppo 971 recieved a score of 98 if this helps you. the bass managment is limited to a fixed 100hz also in this player. the denon 1910 was also tested and finished with a score of 82 for comparison. the link to this shootout is here. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all REGARDS SNOW

jakelm

Wow, my Denon did pretty well.. But still not HD Audio.. I like the 970 with a score of 86. But not much testing on the audio side of it. The 1910 has a very flat Fr responce.

snow

jakelm wrote:

Wow, my Denon did pretty well.. But still not HD Audio.. I like the 970 with a score of 86. But not much testing on the audio side of it. The 1910 has a very flat Fr responce.

yes it appears in all that i have read the 971 was the best for movies and the 970 was best for audio. thats why i chose it over the 971, i wasnt real concerned with the pq as much as decent audio, even though the 970 isnt a slouch pq wise. i probally spent 3 days worth of looking and reading about the audio aspects of it on diffrent reviews and sites before i decided to purchase it. take your time and look around and then decide whats best for you. this way you wont be dissapointed. here is a link to some further reviews on the 970. it might give you a little better feel for the audio side. http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_review.html REGARDS SNOW

danger boy

jakelm wrote:

My H/k 635 accually has 7.1 analog inputs. Any reviews on the DV-563A? Which I believe is the same player just a couple of years older. The reason I ask is I can pick one up on Ebait, for $75.

my friend has this player.. DV-563A and it has trouble playing some DVD-audio discs. namely Queen's - A night at the opera. it won't play the DVD-audio layer of audio. only the 2 ch and DVD DD layers.

THat's why i suggested the one I have which is the Pioneer DV-578A it will play that Queen DVD-audio disc without any problem.

jakelm

Reading the specs on the Oppo 970,

Output:

Analog Audio: Stereo, 5.1ch
Digital Audio: Coaxial, Optical, HDMI
Analog Video: Composite, S-Video (Y/C)
Digital Video: HDMI with HDCP (NTSC 480i/480p/720p/1080i, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i)
Component Video**: Y/Pb/Pr, NTSC 480i/480p/720p/1080i, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i. Component output for CSS-encrypted DVD discs (almost all commercially pressed DVD discs) is limited to 480i/480p only.


it has component 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i.

Does this player upconvert over component?

Jake

polkatese

yes Jake, 970HD will upconvert over component if you install the hack. I did.

Do a search over at avsforum.com. It should be somewhere buried under the 970HD brain dump thread.

jakelm

Cool... You know I do remember something about that hack, I did a search for a similar hack for my Denon, but no luck. There was a hack for the Oppo and the Samsung, if I remember correctly. www.videohelp.com

jakelm

I found the hack. All it is, is one bin file? Just burn it to a disk and thats it?

polkatese

yep, as simple as abc....:)

njoy!